Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean? - Page5

Jan 7, 2006 10:02:55 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004

S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

I was out applying wax to my Carrera-S thinking what a fool I was NOT to have gotten Sport Chrono. Yes: I goofed! Not a problem, I'm willing to admit my mistakes. Then I start thinking, "well at least I'm happy with the S decision I'm applying wax to."

So, I don't want to start flamewar but I think I figured out a few of issues that make the decision between S and non-S so hard for guys here.

Two people buy the non-S.

1. Ordinary person who just wants a great sporty car. Doesn't want to wait. Has never been to and will never go to a track. Male or female, mainly is NOT a car person, barely can name parts of the engine. The non-S is fine for them because EVEN THEIR friends can't see the difference between S and non-S. PLUS it's cheaper!! We "car guys" on the Boards here never hear from these people.

2. A car guy who is on a budget.

So if you're a car guy and you have a non-S you will constantly be looked at quizically. Don't go on with the "non-S has all the HP I will ever need," argument, nix the "extra $10K is for useless options," argument (because it is wrong and silly).

So you buy the S because you're a car guy and you can afford it.

If you are a car guy and buy the non-S you have nagging issues to face that aren't that great; like me and having decided against SChrono, (but not as bad

).

I'm not trying to be arrogant, or elitist, or snobby (God knows I'm not), or an icehole. People are always troubled by making this decision and I'm trying to clarify the salient issues; even though I'm not proud our car-culture HAS those issues.

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Jan 7, 2006 10:09:26 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Thanks for your honest viewpoints. All pretty good ones, in my opinion.

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Jan 7, 2006 10:09:53 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

For me its another""no brainer"" ..

S all the way..

Jmo..

throt..

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Jan 7, 2006 10:33:11 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
MMD said:
I was out applying wax to my Carrera-S thinking what a fool I was NOT to have gotten Sport Chrono. Yes: I goofed! Not a problem, I'm willing to admit my mistakes. Then I start thinking, "well at least I'm happy with the S decision I'm applying wax to."

So, I don't want to start flamewar but I think I figured out a few of issues that make the decision between S and non-S so hard for guys here.

Two people buy the non-S.

1. Ordinary person who just wants a great sporty car. Doesn't want to wait. Has never been to and will never go to a track. Male or female, mainly is NOT a car person, barely can name parts of the engine. The non-S is fine for them because EVEN THEIR friends can't see the difference between S and non-S. PLUS it's cheaper!! We "car guys" on the Boards here never hear from these people.

2. A car guy who is on a budget.

So if you're a car guy and you have a non-S you will constantly be looked at quizically. Don't go on with the "non-S has all the HP I will ever need," argument, nix the "extra $10K is for useless options," argument (because it is wrong and silly).

So you buy the S because you're a car guy and you can afford it.

If you are a car guy and buy the non-S you have nagging issues to face that aren't that great; like me and having decided against SChrono, (but not as bad ).

I'm not trying to be arrogant, or elitist, or snobby (God knows I'm not), or an icehole. People are always troubled by making this decision and I'm trying to clarify the salient issues; even though I'm not proud our car-culture HAS those issues.

Why didn't you get the sport chrono?

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Jan 7, 2006 10:36:17 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
JMShrink said:

Why didn't you get the sport chrono?

Too much dash clutter for me. Too stoopid and lazy to figure out that the stopwatch pops off the dash, can be removed from the bezel, stuffed in the dash and covered with a nice leather patch made by local craftsman.

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Jan 7, 2006 10:57:29 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
MMD said:
Quote:
JMShrink said:

Why didn't you get the sport chrono?

Too much dash clutter for me. Too stoopid and lazy to figure out that the stopwatch pops off the dash, can be removed from the bezel, stuffed in the dash and covered with a nice leather patch made by local craftsman.

Oh, O.K. The "wart" issue.

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Jan 7, 2006 11:20:15 PM

KiwiCanuck: Co-Pilot; Loc: Canada; Posts: 210, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 14, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Hello MMD,

I have the 997+PASM+18in wheels (sr BBS RS-GT)----- after reading the early reports, including Paul Frere, who opined that the 3.6L with standard suspension was his choice. Minimal power losses etc.

Major point ---our prairie roads are not smooth, with ice-heaving, and expenasion-transverse road cracks, that limited me to certain trips where I could REALLY enjoy my NSX for over 7 years. And reviews noted that the 18in on the 3.6 L were really prfereable to the 19in: lighter, more compliant, more steering response.

I also did not want the bi-xenons as I have them on my TL and every second car flashes me, and i do not find any advantage in the prairie driving.

So I put compliance first, considering that the power was going to be great anyway---0.2 for 100kph I can live with.

The 3.6L with PASM is really superbt ---surprisingly even it is a little more brittle/harsh over expansion joints than the NSX was also ---so 19in wheels would be unpleasant.

The BBS RS-GT design, with the spokes going right out to the rim, also make the wheels look larger, so the net effect is really great. And the -10mm lowers the car just emough.

Driving in winter (on a few -20C days is extremely good, as the NSX and other cars with sports supension become really harsh, while the PASM remains 'normal'.

I do what I want and not what others tell me, or follow the crowd ------ the power is great. I am a good 'gears' driver after 7 years with the NSX and if I am one gear lower (more revs) than a 3.8L I can handle him also.

Different choices for different needs ----- circa 33% have chosen the 3.6L ------ so I am category three in your hypothesis!

KiwiCannuck

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Jan 8, 2006 12:33:42 AM

Flashman: Co-Pilot; Loc: USA North Carolina , United States; Posts: 252, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 30, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

For me it was simple, even though Id have bought the S no matter, when you add up the options and upgrades its easily worth the $10k or so difference in my opinion. I did consider an identical 997 to my "S" which was on the dealers lot (PASM, 19" wheels etc etc), but when you looked at the price difference the decision was a no brainer.

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Jan 8, 2006 1:14:09 AM

schao: Co-Pilot; Loc: CT, USA; Posts: 185, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 12, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
MMD said:
Two people buy the non-S.

1. Ordinary person who just wants a great sporty car. Doesn't want to wait. Has never been to and will never go to a track.

Actually, I've seen (and am among them) the very serious track people with sufficient means and time eventually move to dedicated track/race cars. The serious tracker eventually has some form of on-track incident, and a dedicated track/race car provides maximum safety, enjoyment, and minimal economic loss. I would also observe that the serious tracker is much more conservative when driving in normal street/highway situations as there is nothing to prove/gain and everything to lose if you get caught up in some stupid moment.

Sorry for the rant, but wanted to provide another perspective as to why someone would choose a lower hp car that still has 100% of the handling/feel of a higher hp version of the car for street use.

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Jan 8, 2006 1:53:38 AM

Kevin034: Pilot; Loc: WA; Posts: 393, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 7, 2005; Reply to: schao

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

The S has more power, more power is better, so I got the S.

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Jan 8, 2006 1:57:54 AM

Butzi: Co-Pilot; Loc: San Francsico, CA , United States; Posts: 194, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 23, 2005; Reply to: Kevin034

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

This is silly.

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Jan 8, 2006 2:09:01 AM

Damian: Senior; Loc: Pa, USA; Posts: 646, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 10, 2005; Reply to: Flashman

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
chef_jmr said:
This is silly.

So it's silly...change the channel then, this is the internet-- who cares?? what's silly is that I dropped $95K on a 6-cylinder NA glorified Volkswagen

-Chose S because I would've ordered Xenons, 19" wheels, PASM on a non-S, so i was halfway to the $10K difference already.

-first drive the 997 handling/suspension feel had me addicted. Drove my E46 M3 to dealer for S coupe test drive = S was otherwordly...+ unfortunately there was a fluke system fault message on 997 non-S I tried to test drive...never left dealer parking lot (later turned out to be nothing-- loose gas cap, porter fueled up had put cap on wrong)

-early reports summer 2004 of upcoming 997S new 3.8L 355hp + getting 996TT turbo brakes --got me fixated on S model before first one hit the dealer.

- loping bark of 3.8 engine & (stock)exhaust note--even at idle-- of the S induced adrenaline rush first time I started one.

-me so silly:silver gauges & red calipers look the business...& embarrassed to admit I like the fake aluminum interior bits standard on the S

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Jan 8, 2006 5:30:45 AM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: Damian

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Most people ( non- Porsche fanatics) don't know the difference between a standard 997 and a 997S( or standard brakes and PCCB, 355 HP and the X51...)It only matters to us. Personally, I'm ordering the X51 because I want the most powerful 997 currently available- heck it's only money and you live once! Buy whatever makes you happy!

You can't go wrong with any model you choose: Boxster, Cayman, 997...they're all great!

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Jan 8, 2006 6:11:58 AM

Butzi: Co-Pilot; Loc: San Francsico, CA , United States; Posts: 194, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 23, 2005; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
Damian said:
Quote:
chef_jmr said:
This is silly.

So it's silly...change the channel then, this is the internet-- who cares?? what's silly is that I dropped $95K on a 6-cylinder NA glorified Volkswagen

Relax Damian, I like this channel just fine, thank you.

Yes, I, too, would order an S, most likely with X51 and PCCBs. Why? Because my philosophy is to buy the newest and best one can afford. If all I could afford is a base model when it comes time to purchase, Great! I think it is better for Porsche, and for us fans to see 997s of all types and colors being enjoyed out there on the roads. I don't care if it is a Tipronic X51 or a base with or without Sport Chrono, it's a Nine-Eleven.

I called this thread silly becuase everyone has their own personal reasons for their purchase making decisions, and with a little imagination, one could think of them.

I understand MMD wasn't trying to inflame anyone, I just just like to stick up for the little guy (and gal).

Anyway, the end of "The Great Escape" with Steve McQueen is on, I don't want to miss the motorcycle scene!

P.S.: There are also those non-enthusiasts with A LOT of money to burn who always buy the highest-end product possible, not because they demand the most out of the product, but because they can afford it.

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Jan 8, 2006 11:45:17 AM

Taffy: Junior; Loc: cardiff (uk); Posts: 102, Gallery; Registered on: May 10, 2004; Reply to: Kevin034

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Look at it this way, the difference in performance between them measuring it in tenths of a second is considerably less than the difference between a Boxster 2.7 and the Boxster S.........

On the road the Boxsters performance difference is minimal and it needs a well driven Boxster S to lose (if indeed it would) a standard 2.7 on the majority of twisty technical roads that we drive upon (on a straightish road the S obviously has the legs on the 2.7 and so would slowly pull away)

So in my eyes a standard 3.6 carrera is enough for most people.I have this problem at the moment where i am in the position of choosing between either a Carrera 4 or a Carrera S, after speccing them they are both circa 69.000 GBP.

I like the idea of the surefootedness of a C4 but like everyone who has not bought an S wonder whether the performance difference would be missed .......Porsche marketing at it's best i'm afraid.........gonna testdrive an S soon ,i'm currently in an M3 and the Carrera is a bit perkier so plenty fast enough..the S needs to be mighty fast for me to choose it over the 3.6.

Got to decide by end of march........

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Jan 8, 2006 3:27:06 PM

DougNY: Junior; Loc: New York City; Posts: 65, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2005; Reply to: Taffy

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Well, I for one am enjoying my 997 non-S. I am 30 and a motoring enthusiast who finally decided to jump in and get a P-car. I got a very nicely optioned car for $80K even after discount. Now, I have a lot of steps up to look forward to in the next few years. I figure summer of '08 and I will go for more power. For now, very happy.

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Jan 8, 2006 4:15:14 PM

drdrilz: Junior; Loc: ga; Posts: 56, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 15, 2005; Reply to: DougNY

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

MMD the same arguement could be made for your decision not tho get the sports chrono. was it the $900? or maybe because some people not really into cars wouldnt even notice the difference between driving between sport mode and normal.
maybe some liked the standard 18" wheels more or the lack of HID's. and yes there are some that would prefer regular halogens over HIDs.

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Jan 8, 2006 6:37:02 PM

Ente: Senior; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 781, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 24, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

So MMD, when's your TT997 arriving? And to tie you over, did you get the powerkit and PCCB options? Honest questions; I tried digging your old posts up to check the options on your 997S but got limited at 500 posts.

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Jan 8, 2006 8:50:15 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Taffy

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
taffy said:
i'm currently in an M3 and the Carrera is a bit perkier so plenty fast enough..the S needs to be mighty fast for me to choose it over the 3.6.

Think again. On normal highway on ramp horseplay My M3 with SMG seems faster than my 997S. The M3 accelerates effortlessly like a rocket. The SMG shifts are "incredibly" fast. When I drive the p*ss out of my 997S I feel like I'm beating the cr*p out of it and it's going to explode, but going about as fast. At best you can say the cars are about the same "street-fast" wise. On a track there's no comp.

My guess is you'll be disappointed if you think the 997 (non-S) will outperform your (E46?) M3 on subjective feeling of on-ramp "horseplay." This is starting to sound silly!!!

Lemme restate my point: Streeting my M3 and 997S I really see them as equal. I was hoping my 997S would be "faster" than the m3 but it really isn't. IOW, I was a little let down when I first took the 997S home and introduced it to the M3.

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Jan 8, 2006 8:55:25 PM

connoisseur: Senior; Loc: Nebraska; Posts: 752, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 30, 2005; Reply to: Kevin034

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

I found your original message more as an expression of ignorance rather than food for thought. After discussing our needs and wants for approximately a year, my wife and I placed an order for a non S 997 late last year. The dealer does not expect to recieve the vehicle for approximately six months. We are both perfectly able to purchase and wait for what we want. And may I emphasize "getting what we want". As for your comments about non-car guy. (1) Do you know the difference in doing a valve lash adjustment between a Lamborghini Countach and a Ferrari Daytona? (2) What is the difference in valve mechanism between a Ferrari Daytona and an Ferrari 250LM? (3) Do you know how to "read" a spark plug? (4) What is meant by "tuning" wire wheels? In conclusion may I remind you of a saying from Sly and the Family Stone: "Different stroke for different folk."

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Jan 8, 2006 9:18:09 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: connoisseur

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

1 ,, I dont know

2,, I dont know

3,, Yep I think so

4,, I dont know ...

Dont know that much about the mechanics really , do I care - no I dont and why should I or anyone else , is it in some damn buying clause of a sports car ??

hhmmmmmmmmm..

throt..

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Jan 8, 2006 9:23:57 PM

Taffy: Junior; Loc: cardiff (uk); Posts: 102, Gallery; Registered on: May 10, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
MMD said:
Quote:
taffy said:
i'm currently in an M3 and the Carrera is a bit perkier so plenty fast enough..the S needs to be mighty fast for me to choose it over the 3.6.

Think again. On normal highway on ramp horseplay My M3 with SMG seems faster than my 997S. The M3 accelerates effortlessly like a rocket. The SMG shifts are "incredibly" fast. When I drive the p*ss out of my 997S I feel like I'm beating the cr*p out of it and it's going to explode, but going about as fast. At best you can say the cars are about the same "street-fast" wise. On a track there's no comp.

My guess is you'll be disappointed if you think the 997 (non-S) will outperform your (E46?) M3 on subjective feeling of on-ramp "horseplay." This is starting to sound silly!!!

Lemme restate my point: Streeting my M3 and 997S I really see them as equal. I was hoping my 997S would be "faster" than the m3 but it really isn't. IOW, I was a little let down when I first took the 997S home and introduced it to the M3.

I have to disagree.........based on the facts that on many spirited jaunts with a few friends who have a 997S and 996 carrera and 996 carrera 4S models..........the M3 is soundly beaten in straight line drags by the 997S and if the S is behind it is all over the back of the M just waiting for a space to pass...........the carrera and the carrera 4s however are more similar in performance and i feel they have slightly more mid-range performance than the M.....I would add that i am driving the M using all the rev range and taking no prisoners (i used to hold a race license and competed in road rallying so i can drive a bit).

The performance figs of the M3 and the Carrera 3.6 are almost identical , the bhp/tonne figs are in favour of the Porsche , so i'm sure i'll be more than happy.

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Jan 8, 2006 9:30:00 PM

JMShrink: Pilot; Loc: California; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: throt

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
throt said:
1 ,, I dont know

2,, I dont know

3,, Yep I think so

4,, I dont know ...

Dont know that much about the mechanics really , do I care - no I dont and why should I or anyone else , is it in some damn buying clause of a sports car ??

hhmmmmmmmmm..

throt..

LMFAO. You're killing me.

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Jan 8, 2006 9:47:33 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: JMShrink

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
JMShrink said:
Quote:
throt said:
1 ,, I dont know

2,, I dont know

3,, Yep I think so

4,, I dont know ...

Dont know that much about the mechanics really , do I care - no I dont and why should I or anyone else , is it in some damn buying clause of a sports car ??

hhmmmmmmmmm..

throt..

LMFAO. You're killing me.

LMFAO as well

throt..

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Jan 8, 2006 10:14:01 PM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
MMD said:

1. Ordinary person who just wants a great sporty car. Doesn't want to wait. Has never been to and will never go to a track. Male or female, mainly is NOT a car person, barely can name parts of the engine. The non-S is fine for them because EVEN THEIR friends can't see the difference between S and non-S. PLUS it's cheaper!! We "car guys" on the Boards here never hear from these people.

Why do you care what your friends think? Do you buy a car based on what other people think or what you want? I bought a C2 Cab instead of a C2S because I wanted the Cab and didn't think the C2S or C2S Cab offered me that much more. I do not take my car to the track and even if I had a 997TT I would not take it to the track. As for being a car person if a car person is one who "LOVES" his car and thinks Porsche is the only car on planet Earth, then I am not a car person and never will. I simply love to drive my 997 Cab and that is that. I'm the guy who is crusing down the road just enjoying life.

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Jan 8, 2006 10:18:45 PM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
MMD said:

2. A car guy who is on a budget.

What kind of person who pays 80K - 100K+ is on a budget? A C2 or C2 Cab with options will cost you 90K easy.

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Jan 8, 2006 10:31:36 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: bstew

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
bstew said:
Quote:
MMD said:

2. A car guy who is on a budget.

What kind of person who pays 80K - 100K+ is on a budget? A C2 or C2 Cab with options will cost you 90K easy.

We are all on a budget, even a Veyron buyer. It's just that our pain thresholds are at different levels.

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Jan 8, 2006 11:41:11 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Taffy

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Quote:
taffy said:

I have to disagree.........based on the facts that on many spirited jaunts with a few friends who have a 997S and 996 carrera and 996 carrera 4S models..........the M3 is soundly beaten in straight line drags by the 997S

[edited]
The performance figs of the M3 and the Carrera 3.6 are almost identical , the bhp/tonne figs are in favour of the Porsche , so i'm sure i'll be more than happy.

I dunno, according to the numbers..., I dunno... .

0-60 4.8 sec for manual tranny M3 according to BMW brochure

0-60 ???? sec SMG-equipped M3

0-60 997 (non-S) 4.8 sec according to Porsche brochure

0-60 997S 4.6 seconds

So assuming both mfgrs are exaggerating their claims the same amount. It seems, strictly speaking, the M3 is equal to the non-S.

If you're SMG equipped I betcha you're faster in the M3 than a decent amateur driver (like most of us here) in S. No kidding.

Anyway, my point was the sensation of acceleration appears more intense in my SMG M3 than in my manual 997S. It reality it's probably the same. IOW, I'm no slouch running thru the gears buy I gotta be slower than the SMG.

Again, what was surprising to me was that my 997s was not signifcaintly faster than my SMG 04M3. The implication for this thread is that the 997 non-s would have been more noticeable? I dunno.

Interesting stuff though. Kinda silly too because if any of us guys goes out and buys the 997 Turbo, this conversation becomes silly and teeeeedious to that guy.

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Jan 9, 2006 2:51:08 AM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

This is all silly. First it was the 996/997 bashing. Then 997/997S bashing. Then Cayman/Boxster and Cayman/997 bashing.

Lets see, I have a 997 (non-S) because that is the way I wanted. My 997 cost more than a base 997S. So cost was not an issue. Would do it again. Yes.

Am I a Porsche enthusiast? You be the judge. Porsche new car owner since I was 18. I have tracked and rallyed my three Porsches.

We each buy a car for different reasons. Using your same logic, a 996TT or 997TT owner could say that bought your 997S for exactly the same reasons: Your are on a budget and a 997S get the car and the name but is not the best. Where will it end?

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Jan 9, 2006 3:21:05 AM

maoun: Co-Pilot; Loc: Seattle, WA, USA; Posts: 223, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 19, 2005; Reply to: vtrader

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

you mean they don't measure the size of your johnson before they decide whether to sell you an S or not?

:-)

guys, they're all great cars! to each their own!

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Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	261793	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	240659	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	231122	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	221576	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	169813	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	141561	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	118074	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	109216	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	84557	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	75338	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	54151	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	25424	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21219	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19584	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16635	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	13903	225
Motor Sp.	24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018	5/25/23 10:42 PM Grant	11295	55

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S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

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Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

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Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

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