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    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    BjoernB:

    June - they said in Switzerland

    This is very clever...withholding the price tag to check on customer feedback and demand first... Smiley

    I kind of have the feeling that the GLC 63 S AMG will start at over 100k EUR. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    even if it does - they give you good discounts usually - I think it will sell like hot cakes - my dealer got 14 blind orders the day it was released.....


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    BjoernB:

    even if it does - they give you good discounts usually - I think it will sell like hot cakes - my dealer got 14 blind orders the day it was released.....

    When I wanted a Macan with a V8, a source said they considered it with a new V8 development but in the end decided against it because there would be no customer demand  for such a car. Yeah, right.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    this car will hurt Porsche broken heart (it;s the compensation for not having the C63S Station wagen 4x4)


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    Any reviews? Can it handle better than the Macan? The Macan is 3 years old now, a better car will come out eventually. Personally I hate Mercedes infotainment system and I have doubts that the quality of the interior can come close to a loaded Macan turbo. Does it have PDK? V6 or V8 in a crossover? I couldn't care less they both have plus and minus.


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    SciFrog:

    Any reviews? Can it handle better than the Macan? The Macan is 3 years old now, a better car will come out eventually. Personally I hate Mercedes infotainment system and I have doubts that the quality of the interior can come close to a loaded Macan turbo. Does it have PDK? V6 or V8 in a crossover? I couldn't care less they both have plus and minus.

    Will try to get behind the wheel of a GLC63 over the next couple of months and will report about it...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    Via @sharkwerks on IG

     

    1493220962751IMG_4991.PNG


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    ..and how many turns are there on a drag strip??

    Seems like a bit of a silly comparison


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    DJM48:

    Via @sharkwerks on IG

    Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    DJM48:

    Via @sharkwerks on IG

     

    1493220962751IMG_4991.PNG

    Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    Do all European sports car owners live in the mountains? I drove all over Germany and found mainly straight roads. In the real world, I think a Demon gets you from A to B quicker.


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    seriously entertaining (incl noon1) indecision


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    noone1:

    Do all European sports car owners live in the mountains? I drove all over Germany and found mainly straight roads. In the real world, I think a Demon gets you from A to B quicker.

    Are you kidding? Most roads over here are not straight, unless you are talking about the Autobahn.

    Of course I live in Bavaria but even in Baden Württemberg, I didn't see many straight roads (again, not talking about the Autobahn).

    My GT500 was a beast on the Autobahn but on curvy country roads (those I usually love to drive on...), it sucked because you really don't want to drift through curves at 100 kph on a public road, this is a no go. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    noone1:

    Do all European sports car owners live in the mountains? I drove all over Germany and found mainly straight roads. In the real world, I think a Demon gets you from A to B quicker.

    They just find stoplight racing inmature and embarrasing, and enjoy their sportscars more in the bends than the straights.

    Come to think of it I have needed to use the launch control on my GTS zero times in 40,000km, never even botheted with it... the lateral support of the seat however I use every day...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    Carlos from Spain:
    noone1:

    Do all European sports car owners live in the mountains? I drove all over Germany and found mainly straight roads. In the real world, I think a Demon gets you from A to B quicker.

    They just find stoplight racing inmature and embarrasing, and enjoy their sportscars more in the bends than the straights.

    Smiley Couldn't agree more. I always have people trying to race me at a stop light but in 99% of cases, I start slowly, so the other guy (always guys Smiley) understands that I am not interested (mostly some VW Golf VR6, Mercedes AMG, BMW M and similar... Smiley). The 1% is usually...motorcycles. Always getting thumbs up from these guys. Smiley Smiley Motorcycle riders (super bikes) are usually fair and nicer than car drivers, believe it or not. At least over here in Germany.

    Come to think of it I have needed to use the launch control on my GTS zero times in 40,000km, never even botheted with it... the lateral support of the seat however I use every day...

    Smiley I have used launch control on my GTS exactly...never. Only used launch control once in my R8, just to see how it works. Gimmicks. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    I never used launch control on my RS . I used it once or twice at the beginning on my 997 to try it out . That was 130k km ago . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    Horses for courses. Why not compare the Corvette ZR1 to the GT4, since it was actually designed for a race track and not a drag strip? I guess because the Porsche loses that one? angry indecision


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    Depends what you consider loosing... If given a choice between the two I'm pretty sure 99% of the people here would take the GT4 over the vette in a heartbeat for a reason.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    Carlos from Spain:

    Depends what you consider loosing... If given a choice between the two I'm pretty sure 99% of the people here would take the GT4 over the vette in a heartbeat for a reason.

    Absolutely, and they would take it over a GTR too, even though both cars are quicker and cost about the same as a GT4. You just have to change the narrative from "it can't corner" to "better build quality" or what have you.


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    Build quality isn't the only issue the Corvette has (or had). Take fuel consumption, maintenance, resale value, insurance and running cost (Germany vs. GT4)...

    This is what I am praying all the time: If US manufacturers would actually care to build serious sports cars, they could wipe the floor with some European car manufacturers but apparently US manufacturers are happy with the current status quo. I can live with that but it is sad... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    They already do. Porsche 911 resale is awful, and maintenance and reliability cost far more than any American car.

    German's think Corvettes are pimp cars, according to you. That's a German problem, not a US manufacturing problem. Corvette's wipe the floor with just about every European sports car under $150K. It's not even close. Same with the Viper. They've been doing it for years, it's not a secret.

    European's won't buy American sports cars, but for some reason they pay 100 Euro for shitty Levi's jeans that they sell at Target in the US for $25. It's cultural thing, not a product quality thing.


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    noone1:

    They already do. Porsche 911 resale is awful, and maintenance and reliability cost far more than any American car.

    Not in Europe...can't say much about other non-US countries.

    German's think Corvettes are pimp cars, according to you. That's a German problem, not a US manufacturing problem. Corvette's wipe the floor with just about every European sports car under $150K. It's not even close. Same with the Viper. They've been doing it for years, it's not a secret.

    Not only Germans... Smiley Smiley Lately, the reputation has improved though but isn't still at par with many European cars. GM never tried hard to change it (reputation for that matter). Viper? Not really competitive, unless you are talking Viper ACR. Corvette is fast but not even as fast as the latest 991.2 GTS, so... Smiley

    European's won't buy American sports cars, but for some reason they pay 100 Euro for shitty Levi's jeans that they sell at Target in the US for $25. It's cultural thing, not a product quality thing.

    Now you are 100% yourself again, not even gonna try to argue with you. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    Guys - I loved my Jeep SRT. The car was full of emotions to me. Every-time I walked towards I loved it. BUT - I hated hated hated the lousy dealerships and workshops. I tried 4 of them and all of them been crappy Fiat dealers which been dealing with you like a little street robber in the streets of Venice. This experience is enough for me to stay away from cars connected to comparable dealers. And in the area I live simply all US cars are belonging to. BTW - even that Alfa 4C I was fancying - died to me because of that dealer! 


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    RC:
     

    Not only Germans... Smiley Smiley Lately, the reputation has improved though but isn't still at par with many European cars. GM never tried hard to change it (reputation for that matter). Viper? Not really competitive, unless you are talking Viper ACR. Corvette is fast but not even as fast as the latest 991.2 GTS, so... Smiley

     

    to which Corvette are you referring? The 2017 GTS does the 'ring in 7.26 doesn't it? The 2011 Z06 did it in 7.22. Smiley

    http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1108406_2017-porsche-911-gts-laps-ring-in-726

    https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    Compares 100K Corvette from like 7 years ago on old tires with manual transmission to brand new 911 on new tires and pdk that costs like $150k.

    Good argument lol. 


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    JoeRockhead:
    RC:
     

    Not only Germans... Smiley Smiley Lately, the reputation has improved though but isn't still at par with many European cars. GM never tried hard to change it (reputation for that matter). Viper? Not really competitive, unless you are talking Viper ACR. Corvette is fast but not even as fast as the latest 991.2 GTS, so... Smiley

     

    to which Corvette are you referring? The 2017 GTS does the 'ring in 7.26 doesn't it? The 2011 Z06 did it in 7.22. Smiley

    http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1108406_2017-porsche-911-gts-laps-ring-in-726

    https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/

    You cannot just pick Nordschleife times of your liking and compare them. The only Nordschleife time I trust is the one Sport Auto does with their certified(!) Supertest because these times are comparable. 

    The Corvette is fast, no doubt about it, especially in Hockenheim but we should also pay attention to the tires. Sometimes they are optional and not really what customers get when they buy the car out of the store. Not that other car manufacturers don't work with similar "tricks". Smiley

    Also, in Germany, the (officially sold, not grey import) Z06 starts at 117k EUR...so... Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    My Jeep dealer called me, he has a preliminary price tag for the officially offered (no grey import) Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (the one with Hellcat engine and 717 hp in Germany) in Germany: Around 105k EUR. Also, it isn't very likely that Chrysler will subsidize this model for businesses (like they did with the SRT, which was basically 20k EUR cheaper than the official MSRP if you were a business owner ) but the dealer said that although there is big demand in such a car, he thinks that many customers will pass on it because of a possibly higher (vs. SRT) fuel consumption. So in the end, Chrysler would have to subsidize the Trackhawk again (similar to SRT). 

    Right now I am more interested in the new GLC 63 S AMG anyway but the perspective of a 717 hp Jeep GC is still very attractive. If they both cost the same, the choice will be difficult. If the Jeep is cheaper, well...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    RC:

    My Jeep dealer called me, he has a preliminary price tag for the officially offered (no grey import) Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (the one with Hellcat engine and 717 hp in Germany) in Germany: Around 105k EUR. Also, it isn't very likely that Chrysler will subsidize this model for businesses (like they did with the SRT, which was basically 20k EUR cheaper than the official MSRP if you were a business owner ) but the dealer said that although there is big demand in such a car, he thinks that many customers will pass on it because of a possibly higher (vs. SRT) fuel consumption. So in the end, Chrysler would have to subsidize the Trackhawk again (similar to SRT). 

    Right now I am more interested in the new GLC 63 S AMG anyway but the perspective of a 717 hp Jeep GC is still very attractive. If they both cost the same, the choice will be difficult. If the Jeep is cheaper, well...

    The Trackhawk is adorable. The Engine is WOW and the interior offers a full-leather wrap offer which makes it so much better. But after my dealer experience I had I will pass on it. Nevertheless - I will have tears in my eyes on every single one I will see on the street.


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    The Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk is a very interesting product, no doubt about it. My dealer was great but...and here it comes...not really someone I could connect with. Big dealer, countryside, more focused on handymen and similar customers, not intellectuals. I know how it sounds angry but he also sells tractors and similar stuff, so you get my point.

    I am good with people (yes, I really am...when I do business with or want something from them ) but when the lead mechanic treats me like his buddy and says that it is normal that there is a loud whining noise at 250 kph and that it is normal that the fender covers pop out of their support and similar stuff, I get mad. No complaints about their skills but I really had to beg for fixes and sometimes I just couldn't connect to them, sorry.

    I have a great connection to my Audi mechanic and to my Porsche mechanic but this one? Sorry. enlightened Had the best connection to my GT500 mechanic (you met him in Böblingen, remember? ), I would love to have someone like him for any car I own but he was way too far away and in the end, I couldn't always drive 400 km just to have him check minor issues. 

    So in the end, I have to agree with you: The dealership is half the ownership fun. If the dealer sucks, you can't really enjoy a car, no matter how good it is.

    Yes, I'm afraid that like you, I will pass on the Jeep GC Trackhawk for exactly the reason you mentioned. My Mercedes dealer here in my town is great, some of the people working there are my customers for years, so I feel at home there. Unfortunately they always had the wrong (for me) products. The GLC 63 S AMG could be a change, I am really looking forward for my first test-drive. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Challenger Hellcat 'Demon'

    RC:
     

    Also, in Germany, the (officially sold, not grey import) Z06 starts at 117k EUR...so... Smiley

     

    What does the GTS cost?

    1.07.3 Hockenheim time for the Z06. I believe the new GTS did it 1.08, both with Gebhardt driving. No word on tires. Smiley

     


     
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