Crown

Lars997:

 

Many of my SLS friends are having a GT-R on order. They all think they hit the jackpot. They assume the the car goes double in price, once it is up for delivery. I can't believe that. I actually believe, that within a year you will see cars available 30% below MSRP. 

I totally agree with you. It is extremely silly to assume that a mass proceed car like the GTR will not suffer substantial value loss. In particular, if one looks at the situation with the GT models in the market already...

My Porsche dealer told me yesterday that he lost a very good Turbo S customer to the new Mercedes GT Roadster. Main reason? Take a guess: Sound. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

My Porsche dealer told me yesterday that he lost a very good Turbo S customer to the new Mercedes GT Roadster. Main reason? Take a guess: Sound. 

The honest reason might probably more like "price"  Of course, few people would admit it - but it would be good for Porsche to know...

P.S.: Sound would be a major obstacle for me to accept the GT model range. Whenever I see these cars they drive around with high noise levels in the city. It seems the AMG GT customer range is a bit different... Maybe the AMG cars are too cheap (special leasing etc.) so that some people who could never afford a sportscar otherwise can get access to an AMG GT 

MKSGR:

RC:

My Porsche dealer told me yesterday that he lost a very good Turbo S customer to the new Mercedes GT Roadster. Main reason? Take a guess: Sound. 

The honest reason might probably more like "price"  Of course, few people would admit it - but it would be good for Porsche to know...

P.S.: Sound would be a major obstacle for me to accept the GT model range. Whenever I see these cars they drive around with high noise levels in the city. It seems the AMG GT customer range is a bit different... Maybe the AMG cars are too cheap (special leasing etc.) so that some people who could never afford a sportscar otherwise can get access to an AMG GT 

Leasing offers indeed are very aggressive, it seems MB wants to market their AMG GT by all means possible.

Concerning high noise levels, I notice the same, but for every owner of a modern sportscar. Be it AMG's, Boxsters, 911 GTS', Jag V8's, they all appear to enjoy farting/popping in city centers. 

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

Yes, Mercedes lease offers are aggressive but my dealer has a 991.2 Turbo S Cab and his offer wasn't that bad either, so...  I think people more and more realize that at these prices, the emotional factor is very very important. While the 911 Turbo S had always a big fan club, Porsche is losing customers because the sound is that bad. I know that Markus likes the sound of his 991.2 Turbo S Cab but honestly, for me it is the only reason to avoid this car. With a proper turbo sound (current 991.2 Carrera PSE sound would suffice!), the 991.2 Turbo S would sell even better but I'm not sure Porsche really cares. The 911 Turbo S is still an icon, a legend and finds many buyers but after people get used to the power and performance, the emotional desires will kick in and this is the only part the new Turbo S cannot deliver. What a pity for such a fantastic performer.  Oh...the interior kind of sucks as well...as if you're driving a Boxster. 

 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

Yes, Mercedes lease offers are aggressive but my dealer has a 991.2 Turbo S Cab and his offer wasn't that bad either, so...  I think people more and more realize that at these prices, the emotional factor is very very important.

I fully agree, the emotions are most important for many. However, even a turbo s cab with a good discount is still more than 50k Euro more expensive than a GTC Roadster... A lot of money for those who cannot appreciate all the fine differences that makes high-performance cars so special 

Lars997:

Many of my SLS friends are having a GT-R on order. They all think they hit the jackpot. They assume the the car goes double in price, once it is up for delivery. I can't believe that. I actually believe, that within a year you will see cars available 30% below MSRP. 

Apparently, some interested parties are spreading rumors that the GTR production will be limited to an annual maximum of less than 200 cars  (no kidding)

Maybe your friends ordered based on this "info"  If so, one should probably warn them before it is too late and they have to take delivery of the car 

I can confirm that AMG is pitching heavily to gain market share. They made me an offer for the GT R which I almost couldn't refuse. In the end I kept my RS.

In Germany the hype has already broken out and you if you order today you will be getting the car in 2018.

M3ike:

I can confirm that AMG is pitching heavily to gain market share. They made me an offer for the GT R which I almost couldn't refuse. In the end I kept my RS.

In Germany the hype has already broken out and you if you order today you will be getting the car in 2018.

They need to sell at least some of these cars before the "Supertest quickest" fairytale will explode in their faces in some months...

MKSGR:

Lars997:

Many of my SLS friends are having a GT-R on order. They all think they hit the jackpot. They assume the the car goes double in price, once it is up for delivery. I can't believe that. I actually believe, that within a year you will see cars available 30% below MSRP. 

Apparently, some interested parties are spreading rumors that the GTR production will be limited to an annual maximum of less than 200 cars  (no kidding)

Maybe your friends ordered based on this "info"  If so, one should probably warn them before it is too late and they have to take delivery of the car 

That's exactly the point. Also - delivery should have started this March, but is delayed towards October for the first client car. But by all fairness - those individuals (5 in total) I know, all are car addicts. Most of them own an entire collection of sportscars - but make a guess, most of them out of Affalterbach  And - as their previous black series or SLS are quiet stable in prize, they think the GT-R is the same. 

And yes - if you want a special GT you better wait for the black series. 

Nevertheless - money for value, buy a used one and it is a great car for the money. A bit like with the R8 - if I see used cars for 140k€ instead of 220k€, with only 5000 miles on the clock, hey - that's a steel.

Porker:

MKSGR:

RC:

My Porsche dealer told me yesterday that he lost a very good Turbo S customer to the new Mercedes GT Roadster. Main reason? Take a guess: Sound. 

The honest reason might probably more like "price"  Of course, few people would admit it - but it would be good for Porsche to know...

P.S.: Sound would be a major obstacle for me to accept the GT model range. Whenever I see these cars they drive around with high noise levels in the city. It seems the AMG GT customer range is a bit different... Maybe the AMG cars are too cheap (special leasing etc.) so that some people who could never afford a sportscar otherwise can get access to an AMG GT 

Leasing offers indeed are very aggressive, it seems MB wants to market their AMG GT by all means possible.

Concerning high noise levels, I notice the same, but for every owner of a modern sportscar. Be it AMG's, Boxsters, 911 GTS', Jag V8's, they all appear to enjoy farting/popping in city centers. 

Oh yes - this is exactly what I feel. All the cars are farting/popping way to much. It is just to get attention. Other than that, a pure Boxster V6 sound or a big block V8 is always better and more attractive in sound!

Inspirine:

Jumping on the R does not make sense knowing Black Series is coming

Black Series SLS was like $350K. Considering the price of the GT-R, it's entirely possible that someone buying a GT-R simply wouldn't want a BS at such a high price anyway.

The BS cars are always stupid expensive.

Lars997:

exactly the point. Also - delivery should have started this March, but is delayed towards October for the first client car.

OMG, how can this be: 6 months of delay! This goes very well with the Sporauto Supertest. First time they test a car 12 months before it is being delivered to customers... What a fraud. They should rename their magazine to Sportprototype

MKSGR:

Lars997:

exactly the point. Also - delivery should have started this March, but is delayed towards October for the first client car.

OMG, how can this be: 6 months of delay! This goes very well with the Sporauto Supertest. First time they test a car 12 months before it is being delivered to customers... What a fraud. They should rename their magazine to Sportprototype

Told you so...same thing with the first SL55 AMG they provided to AMS for a test. They kicked me out of the AMG Owner's Club for accusing them of cheating, never got an apology (or my membership back) after AMG admitted a while later that the car (SL55 AMG) has been a prototype. This is how things work out there...very sad.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

MKSGR:

Lars997:

exactly the point. Also - delivery should have started this March, but is delayed towards October for the first client car.

OMG, how can this be: 6 months of delay! This goes very well with the Sporauto Supertest. First time they test a car 12 months before it is being delivered to customers... What a fraud. They should rename their magazine to Sportprototype

Told you so...same thing with the first SL55 AMG they provided to AMS for a test. They kicked me out of the AMG Owner's Club for accusing them of cheating, never got an apology (or my membership back) after AMG admitted a while later that the car (SL55 AMG) has been a prototype. This is how things work out there...very sad.

It is probably a problem with the mentality of the AMG staff. In this case, however, Sportauto is part of the fraud - which makes me sad. I can only hope that HvS (now at Autozeitung) will kill Sportauto by revealing the truth about what happened in his own Supertest 

Sport Auto needs the car manufacturers. Without getting testcars and official support, the magazine can close shop, also because of the ads in the magazine. I understand why Sport Auto is careful with criticism but this actually makes them in the end like any other car magazine and people will stop trusting them. 

Seriously, I do not know if AMG has committed fraud in any way but it is very questionable if and when a car manufacturer provides a testcar which normal customers cannot buy/own yet.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

it is very questionable if and when a car manufacturer provides a testcar which normal customers cannot buy/own yet.

I agree 100%. In particular if that happens 1 year before the car is delivered to customers...

You guys still happy that Mercedes destroyed all McLaren?

U Still dont get it......

noone1:

You guys still happy that Mercedes destroyed all McLaren?

You know what is good? I have a little "delete post" button here on my screen and when I have to read stupid stuff that is just meant to provoke people I love to use it  This time, however, I just used the other button named "edit post" 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

Blueflame

No one on any other board doubts the GT-R performance. Just sayin'...

Mercedes has equal talent to any other car manufacturer and their Project One is going to destroy everything just as well.

noone1:

No one on any other board doubts the GT-R performance. Just sayin'...

We are special here...haven't you noticed?! 

Mercedes has equal talent to any other car manufacturer and their Project One is going to destroy everything just as well.

True but talent isn't everything. Budgets...commitment...many other factors are involved in this process.

Project One is just a paper tiger...yet. Of course it can be a beast but I wouldn't expect less from a manufacturer like Mercedes.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

noone1:

No one on any other board doubts the GT-R performance. Just sayin'...

Mercedes has equal talent to any other car manufacturer and their Project One is going to destroy everything just as well.

Interesting! On the boards I visit there is a majority view consistent with what you can read here... But I am not interested in AMG discussion boards etc., of course.

I think every person with experience and the ability to think independently will draw the same conclusion. This even more so after the recent 6 month delay of first deliveries... Frankly, one has to take a fairly naive stance to still believe in the message Sportauto/AMG put into their nice little "marketing package" 

RC:

noone1:

No one on any other board doubts the GT-R performance. Just sayin'...

We are special here...haven't you noticed?! 

Mercedes has equal talent to any other car manufacturer and their Project One is going to destroy everything just as well.

True but talent isn't everything. Budgets...commitment...many other factors are involved in this process.

Project One is just a paper tiger...yet. Of course it can be a beast but I wouldn't expect less from a manufacturer like Mercedes.

Well, Mercedes isn't the paying out $20B in fines and repairs, and they pay for F1, so I'd say budget and commitment isn't an issue.

VW messed up big time but although VW is whining all the time about the fines and whatnot, they can actually afford it.  (Americans better not read this...).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

To me - this is very very sexy

+1  (more important: wife likes the GT too)

Could be the solution going back to a 2-seater

Itsme:

+1  (more important: wife likes the GT too)

Could be the solution going back to a 2-seater

drive it and hear it. It drives very agile and fast. My testdrive is over a year ago, but I was deeply impressed. It feels like a sports car. Best of all is the sound. You don't sit into an 991 after hearing that one. Last not least - if you buy a year old car, it has so much depreciation on it that it is almost considered a bargain!