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    BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    "Using a highly developed version of the latest M5 & M6 V10 5.0 litre 500Bhp engines, increased by another 50cc's could make the new V10 capable of developing 550Bhp. Using the latest lightweight materials including aluminum & carbon-fibre throughout weight could be kept to 1200 Kg & have the power to weight ratio of 458 Bhp per tonne. Burkhard Goschel the head of BMW's development is said to "offer the ultimate in lateral dynamics", & must be capable of out performing the V8-powered M3 & Z4M. It will use the latest electronic & mechanical aids to enhance it's road holding capabilities & wind tunnel development will ensure aerodynamic down force is a priority. Active spoilers & venturi underbody will ensure the cars sticks to the road like an F1 car. BMW hopes to keep the price within Pounds90,000 price bracket& sales should start in 2008."

    Yes! A new M1 for the New Millenium

    Meanwhile,,,Porsche works feverishly to make a F1 type gearbox work on a almost 50 yr old turbocharged fat potato car ....

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Is it just me or is BMW really been pushing their performance division lately.

    If this is true I am anxious to see this creation

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Sounds fantastic - hope it doesn't look their any of their recent efforts

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Don't play with my feelings, Jim.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Sounds fantastic - hope it doesn't look their any of their recent efforts



    With BMW's recent styling, We can only pray!

    But its 1200kg target weight is encouraging!


    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Sounds fantastic - hope it doesn't look their any of their recent efforts



    With BMW's recent styling, We can only pray!

    But its 1200kg target weight is encouraging!





    Maybe they won't give Bangle the keys to the safe deposit box in the design department at M on this one.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    If this thing gets out, 997 Turbo/TTS/GT2 have got a serious problem. That would be CGT-like or even sligtly better performance for the price of a turbo.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    bangle is not in jail yet???

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    bangle is not in jail yet???



    This is funny. I like the new designs but I know I am one in a million on this.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Actually the BMW board is very happy with his designs. BMW now sells more cars in Germany and Europe(?) than MB.

    My view is a Bangle design is better than no design change for 50 years.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    alot of people that I know HATE his designs, they simply just want the newer bmw despite their hate for the new designs. Example- I would think that nearly 75% of bmw owners (not possible owners) prefer the older 5 series design opposed to the newer one that is out now. But design can only take you so far- innovation is what bmw is about now ... (that and performance I guess).. so long as they make good M models, no one will be terribly angry at bangle. The M5 and M6 are a good start--- the Z4M is dissappointing simply b/c it gets the older engine instead of the 8 cylinder that it will get in a REFRESH in about 4 years. The New M3 is what everyone will try to benchmark on--AGAIN.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    "Using a highly developed version of the latest M5 & M6 V10 5.0 litre 500Bhp engines, increased by another 50cc's could make the new V10 capable of developing 550Bhp. Using the latest lightweight materials including aluminum & carbon-fibre throughout weight could be kept to 1200 Kg & have the power to weight ratio of 458 Bhp per tonne. Burkhard Goschel the head of BMW's development is said to "offer the ultimate in lateral dynamics", & must be capable of out performing the V8-powered M3 & Z4M. It will use the latest electronic & mechanical aids to enhance it's road holding capabilities & wind tunnel development will ensure aerodynamic down force is a priority. Active spoilers & venturi underbody will ensure the cars sticks to the road like an F1 car. BMW hopes to keep the price within Pounds90,000 price bracket& sales should start in 2008."

    Yes! A new M1 for the New Millenium

    Meanwhile,,,Porsche works feverishly to make a F1 type gearbox work on a almost 50 yr old turbocharged fat potato car ....



    What a complete BS (Sorry)...

    1200kg and
    550hp combined with
    only 90000 GBP...

    ... in order to outperform the M3 and Z4M

    What kind of source is that quote from They do not seem to know much about cars.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    1200 kg seem hard to do.Imo don't expect a weight under 1500Kg.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    I like the new BMW look except for the back of the 6 and 7 series - not because of the raised trunk, but because they are too rounded like from side view - should have made the back ends tighter with sharper lines , more like a well- tailored suit like the 5 and 3 series.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    Lazy Cat said:
    1200 kg seem hard to do.Imo don't expect a weight under 1500Kg.



    An Enzo and a Carrera GT both weigh more with expensive CF tubs and other lightweight parts and panels and now some genius steps forth and claims the new BMW will outperform them both for $90.000. Heck, if it's true, I will become a BMW fan for life.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Lazy Cat said:
    1200 kg seem hard to do.Imo don't expect a weight under 1500Kg.



    An Enzo and a Carrera GT both weigh more with expensive CF tubs and other lightweight parts and panels


    And the Lotus Elise/Exige weighs FAR less and costs half as much as the proposed BMW. It's not impossible...

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Lazy Cat said:
    1200 kg seem hard to do.Imo don't expect a weight under 1500Kg.



    An Enzo and a Carrera GT both weigh more with expensive CF tubs and other lightweight parts and panels


    And the Lotus Elise/Exige weighs FAR less and costs half as much as the proposed BMW. It's not impossible...



    There are only two minor problems with that comparison:

    - The Lotus misses around 400hp (to match the 550hp)
    - BMW would not sell any cars of the Lotus kind as they cannot be used as daily drivers at all (even an Enzo is comfortable compared to the Elise...)


    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Unfortunately I think it is a dream that BMW would release a supercar weighing only 1200kg.

    However, it is definitely possible. Even the Carrera GT has places to remove weight. There may be more than 50 .lbs of filler to make the paint and body panels looks smooth. I'm sure there are many little choices such as this that make it very refined for the road, but add hundreds of pounds to the bottom line. With all of that technology and all the CF parts, I don't think it would be difficult to make a lighter car.

    One problem concerning weight with the Enzo is that it is relatively large. The other problem is likely all these regulatory items for road use that add weight. For example, a Noble M400 weighs less than 1200kg and has 400hp. As a road car, even a 996 GT3RS has a hard time keeping up with it.

    So essentially, it is not a lack of technology that prevents these cars from being lower in weight IMO. It is a lack of demand from the consumer. There is no money in shedding more weight in most cases. It is easier and often better for the consumer to add 50 hp than remove 250 .lbs from the car.

    - J

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Well said, Justin!

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    There is no way to go under 1400 kg with a v10 in a modern street car unless it uses very exotic and costly materials.Don't dream, the lotus is light because it has small transmission/engine/brakes that fit the small 192 bhp engine.Parts/components for a 550 bhp car are bigger and heavier, or too expensive to put in a street car.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    Lazy Cat said:
    There is no way to go under 1400 kg with a v10 in a modern street car unless it uses very exotic and costly materials.


    If the Noble weighs 1,100 kg with 425hp V-6, I think the BMW can use a V10 without adding 300kg. The V10 doesn't weigh THAT much more than a V10...

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    Unfortunately I think it is a dream that BMW would release a supercar weighing only 1200kg.

    However, it is definitely possible. Even the Carrera GT has places to remove weight. There may be more than 50 .lbs of filler to make the paint and body panels looks smooth. I'm sure there are many little choices such as this that make it very refined for the road, but add hundreds of pounds to the bottom line. With all of that technology and all the CF parts, I don't think it would be difficult to make a lighter car.

    One problem concerning weight with the Enzo is that it is relatively large. The other problem is likely all these regulatory items for road use that add weight. For example, a Noble M400 weighs less than 1200kg and has 400hp. As a road car, even a 996 GT3RS has a hard time keeping up with it.

    So essentially, it is not a lack of technology that prevents these cars from being lower in weight IMO. It is a lack of demand from the consumer. There is no money in shedding more weight in most cases. It is easier and often better for the consumer to add 50 hp than remove 250 .lbs from the car.

    - J



    I totally agree with your points.

    I think that your arguments regarding consumer demand still apply more to BMW customers than to Porsche customers. Thus I simply do not believe that BMW would be the one to introduce a car as mentioned in the quote above...

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    90,000 GBP is more like $170,000 USD.....that is a lot more believeable.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Actually the BMW board is very happy with his designs. BMW now sells more cars in Germany and Europe(?) than MB.

    My view is a Bangle design is better than no design change for 50 years.



    Nick is even bashing Porsche in a BMW thread... your are truly a sad man...

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Lazy Cat said:
    There is no way to go under 1400 kg with a v10 in a modern street car unless it uses very exotic and costly materials.


    If the Noble weighs 1,100 kg with 425hp V-6, I think the BMW can use a V10 without adding 300kg. The V10 doesn't weigh THAT much more than a V10...



    One thing to keep in mind: the Z8 is a GT, a comfortable roadster. Yes, you COULD make it 1200 kg for $170.000, but how road-worthy will it be? You can kiss goodbye the leather seats, AC and basically anything that's electrically powered. To make a car with all the required comfort, which would weigh only 1200 kg, would require some serious cash (over 400.000 Euros).

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    Crash said:One thing to keep in mind: the Z8 is a GT, a comfortable roadster. Yes, you COULD make it 1200 kg for $170.000, but how road-worthy will it be? You can kiss goodbye the leather seats, AC and basically anything that's electrically powered. To make a car with all the required comfort, which would weigh only 1200 kg, would require some serious cash (over 400.000 Euros).


    The Noble has leather (or Alcantara) seats, AC, and a decent amount of comfort as well as blistering performance. There is not any high-tech low weight technology employed either. A company like BMW will have FAR greater resources (and ties to F1) in order to bring the weight down with reasonable expense.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:One thing to keep in mind: the Z8 is a GT, a comfortable roadster. Yes, you COULD make it 1200 kg for $170.000, but how road-worthy will it be? You can kiss goodbye the leather seats, AC and basically anything that's electrically powered. To make a car with all the required comfort, which would weigh only 1200 kg, would require some serious cash (over 400.000 Euros).


    The Noble has leather (or Alcantara) seats, AC, and a decent amount of comfort as well as blistering performance. There is not any high-tech low weight technology employed either. A company like BMW will have FAR greater resources (and ties to F1) in order to bring the weight down with reasonable expense.




    Grant,

    the Noble certainly has some creature comforts, but it is in no way what you would call a comfortable car. I'd love to have one, but not for its comfort. Also, look at the safety requirements. The airbags, powered seats, i-drive, huge wheels, etc. Like I said, yes, you could make it 1200 kg, but not for 170k with a steel chassis and all the comfort and safety stuff...

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    The Noble is 60cm shorter and 15cm less wide than the cgt.The wheelbase is 30 cm shorter. You can't fit a 5l v10 in a so small car.Comparaisons with Noble or Lotus cars are nonsense.Of course these cars are light, but you will never be able to fit big engines, big brakes, smg 7 gearbox, big wheels...in it.

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    Crash said:Like I said, yes, you could make it 1200 kg, but not for 170k with a steel chassis and all the comfort and safety stuff...


    Maybe it won't be a steel chassis...

    Re: BMW Z10 550hp 1200KG

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    I think that your arguments regarding consumer demand still apply more to BMW customers than to Porsche customers. Thus I simply do not believe that BMW would be the one to introduce a car as mentioned in the quote above...



    I agree that BMWs customer base is more likely to reject such a car. I guess it depends if BMW wants to go after a new market and make weight a key selling point of the supercar.

    - J

     
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