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Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
0two9 said:
It is pretty much the "balls" when it comes to luxury sedans. BMW has nothign to counter it at all.
If I needed a family hauler/commuting limo, S65 would be my easy choice....world's safest, most comfortable sedan....
BMW doesn't have a buyer base for $100K+ cars, let alone roughly $200K commuter cars....given how profitable 55/65 are for Merc, it's obvious BMW/Lexus would go after this lucrative mkt if they could....
But given BMW can't seem to even develop competent brakes and has steering feel about as anesthetic as an S/CL's (where's the performance car [Email]touch@BMW??)....and[/Email] BMW can't seem to even develop competent air cond sys or fit its cars w/>22gall fuel tanks (where's the GT car [Email]touch@BMW??)[/Email], I'm not at all surprised BMW has never succeeded in the $100K+ league....
Guys buying $200K 65's who also enjoy non-straight-line performance/feel typically own P/F for wkend use in the curves and use 65 for daily straight-line commuting duty....BMW does neither straight-line commuting nor wkend mtn twisties particularly well....
Not only for safety reasons I still prefer the A8 W12. There is nothing better than 4WD for a powerful car... Also, I like the discrete looks and the (design and build) quality of the interior of the A8.
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
0two9 said:
It is pretty much the "balls" when it comes to luxury sedans. BMW has nothign to counter it at all.
If I needed a family hauler/commuting limo, S65 would be my easy choice....world's safest, most comfortable sedan....
BMW doesn't have a buyer base for $100K+ cars, let alone roughly $200K commuter cars....given how profitable 55/65 are for Merc, it's obvious BMW/Lexus would go after this lucrative mkt if they could....
But given BMW can't seem to even develop competent brakes and has steering feel about as anesthetic as an S/CL's (where's the performance car [Email]touch@BMW??)....and[/Email] BMW can't seem to even develop competent air cond sys or fit its cars w/>22gall fuel tanks (where's the GT car [Email]touch@BMW??)[/Email], I'm not at all surprised BMW has never succeeded in the $100K+ league....
Guys buying $200K 65's who also enjoy non-straight-line performance/feel typically own P/F for wkend use in the curves and use 65 for daily straight-line commuting duty....BMW does neither straight-line commuting nor wkend mtn twisties particularly well....
Not only for safety reasons I still prefer the A8 W12. There is nothing better than 4WD for a powerful car... Also, I like the discrete looks and the (design and build) quality of the interior of the A8.
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
MSB said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
But given BMW can't seem to even develop competent brakes and has steering feel about as anesthetic as an S/CL's (where's the performance car [Email]touch@BMW??)....and[/Email] BMW can't seem to even develop competent air cond sys or fit its cars w/>22gall fuel tanks (where's the GT car [Email]touch@BMW??)[/Email], I'm not at all surprised BMW has never succeeded in the $100K+ league....
I don't agree with you here. The M5 brakes are much stronger than the one's fitted on 55's, let alone the feel of the brake (sensotronic brake or whatever.)
Drove new M5 around usual mtn twisties and brakes started fading halfway through my run (and pedal feel was sloppy from start vs F/P)....same setting and driver where P/F/55/65 brakes seem to do just fine....even the various Brit car mags (which depend on BMW ad revs...so would naturally not complain unless weakness is egregious) also consistently comment re: weak brakes of M5/6....
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
MSB said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
But given BMW can't seem to even develop competent brakes and has steering feel about as anesthetic as an S/CL's (where's the performance car [Email]touch@BMW??)....and[/Email] BMW can't seem to even develop competent air cond sys or fit its cars w/>22gall fuel tanks (where's the GT car [Email]touch@BMW??)[/Email], I'm not at all surprised BMW has never succeeded in the $100K+ league....
I don't agree with you here. The M5 brakes are much stronger than the one's fitted on 55's, let alone the feel of the brake (sensotronic brake or whatever.)
Drove new M5 around usual mtn twisties and brakes started fading halfway through my run (and pedal feel was sloppy from start vs F/P)....same setting and driver where P/F/55/65 brakes seem to do just fine....even the various Brit car mags (which depend on BMW ad revs...so would naturally not complain unless weakness is egregious) also consistently comment re: weak brakes of M5/6....
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
ajcastaneda said:
New York City seems to be the mecca for S's and 7 series - so much that no one really pays attention to them here at all...
Must be nice to get chauffered around daily in an S55
Aw come on, AJ, I've never heard of a "model"/"supermodel" who'd pass up a guy (no matter how old/paunchy) w/his own S65 and driver ferrying him around NYC...even in NYC, S65's following guys around are fairly uncommon.....even in front of the "power" restaurants/nightclubs.....lots of car svc blk Lincolns and S430s w/100K+ mis and non-English spkg, directionless drivers, but not many new S65s....
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
ajcastaneda said:
New York City seems to be the mecca for S's and 7 series - so much that no one really pays attention to them here at all...
Must be nice to get chauffered around daily in an S55
Aw come on, AJ, I've never heard of a "model"/"supermodel" who'd pass up a guy (no matter how old/paunchy) w/his own S65 and driver ferrying him around NYC...even in NYC, S65's following guys around are fairly uncommon.....even in front of the "power" restaurants/nightclubs.....lots of car svc blk Lincolns and S430s w/100K+ mis and non-English spkg, directionless drivers, but not many new S65s....
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
0two9 said:
It is pretty much the "balls" when it comes to luxury sedans. BMW has nothign to counter it at all.
If I needed a family hauler/commuting limo, S65 would be my easy choice....world's safest, most comfortable sedan....
BMW doesn't have a buyer base for $100K+ cars, let alone roughly $200K commuter cars....given how profitable 55/65 are for Merc, it's obvious BMW/Lexus would go after this lucrative mkt if they could....
But given BMW can't seem to even develop competent brakes and has steering feel about as anesthetic as an S/CL's (where's the performance car [Email]touch@BMW??)....and[/Email] BMW can't seem to even develop competent air cond sys or fit its cars w/>22gall fuel tanks (where's the GT car [Email]touch@BMW??)[/Email], I'm not at all surprised BMW has never succeeded in the $100K+ league....
Guys buying $200K 65's who also enjoy non-straight-line performance/feel typically own P/F for wkend use in the curves and use 65 for daily straight-line commuting duty....BMW does neither straight-line commuting nor wkend mtn twisties particularly well....
Not only for safety reasons I still prefer the A8 W12. There is nothing better than 4WD for a powerful car... Also, I like the discrete looks and the (design and build) quality of the interior of the A8.
Interesting viewpoint, MKSGR....personally have no need for a sedan/SUV, so use 996TTS as my rainy-day car
Curious why Audi over S-Class 4Matic for rainy/slushy road use (commuting around cold, wet/snowy urban regions, not for ski trip duty)? Seems to me Merc has innovated more safety features than any other co. (aside from P)....is Audi notably innovative on that front as well? My brief expces w/Audi left me underwhelmed by steering feel/chassis dynamics/brakes/interior design&ergonomics.... 
Wouldn't a Cayenne be an even safer snow weather choice than an Audi?
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
0two9 said:
It is pretty much the "balls" when it comes to luxury sedans. BMW has nothign to counter it at all.
If I needed a family hauler/commuting limo, S65 would be my easy choice....world's safest, most comfortable sedan....
BMW doesn't have a buyer base for $100K+ cars, let alone roughly $200K commuter cars....given how profitable 55/65 are for Merc, it's obvious BMW/Lexus would go after this lucrative mkt if they could....
But given BMW can't seem to even develop competent brakes and has steering feel about as anesthetic as an S/CL's (where's the performance car [Email]touch@BMW??)....and[/Email] BMW can't seem to even develop competent air cond sys or fit its cars w/>22gall fuel tanks (where's the GT car [Email]touch@BMW??)[/Email], I'm not at all surprised BMW has never succeeded in the $100K+ league....
Guys buying $200K 65's who also enjoy non-straight-line performance/feel typically own P/F for wkend use in the curves and use 65 for daily straight-line commuting duty....BMW does neither straight-line commuting nor wkend mtn twisties particularly well....
Not only for safety reasons I still prefer the A8 W12. There is nothing better than 4WD for a powerful car... Also, I like the discrete looks and the (design and build) quality of the interior of the A8.
Interesting viewpoint, MKSGR....personally have no need for a sedan/SUV, so use 996TTS as my rainy-day car
Curious why Audi over S-Class 4Matic for rainy/slushy road use (commuting around cold, wet/snowy urban regions, not for ski trip duty)? Seems to me Merc has innovated more safety features than any other co. (aside from P)....is Audi notably innovative on that front as well? My brief expces w/Audi left me underwhelmed by steering feel/chassis dynamics/brakes/interior design&ergonomics.... Wouldn't a Cayenne be an even safer snow weather choice than an Audi?
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
0two9 said:
It is pretty much the "balls" when it comes to luxury sedans. BMW has nothign to counter it at all.
If I needed a family hauler/commuting limo, S65 would be my easy choice....world's safest, most comfortable sedan....
BMW doesn't have a buyer base for $100K+ cars, let alone roughly $200K commuter cars....given how profitable 55/65 are for Merc, it's obvious BMW/Lexus would go after this lucrative mkt if they could....
But given BMW can't seem to even develop competent brakes and has steering feel about as anesthetic as an S/CL's (where's the performance car [Email]touch@BMW??)....and[/Email] BMW can't seem to even develop competent air cond sys or fit its cars w/>22gall fuel tanks (where's the GT car [Email]touch@BMW??)[/Email], I'm not at all surprised BMW has never succeeded in the $100K+ league....
Guys buying $200K 65's who also enjoy non-straight-line performance/feel typically own P/F for wkend use in the curves and use 65 for daily straight-line commuting duty....BMW does neither straight-line commuting nor wkend mtn twisties particularly well....
Not only for safety reasons I still prefer the A8 W12. There is nothing better than 4WD for a powerful car... Also, I like the discrete looks and the (design and build) quality of the interior of the A8.
Interesting viewpoint, MKSGR....personally have no need for a sedan/SUV, so use 996TTS as my rainy-day car
Wouldn't a Cayenne be an even safer snow weather choice than an Audi?
Unfortunately Mercedes offers their AWD system for the lower-power models only. There is no AWD available for the S65/S600 etc.
Thus Audi still holds the leading position in this area.
BTW: The A8 W12 with short wheel base handles very, very well for a car of that size. There are many (press included) that claim that the Audi A8 W12 is by far the best handling car in the luxury sedan segment.
In case of the short wheel base version of the W12 (which I actually prefer) the excellent handling is also supported by AAS Sport (Audi's sporty suspension setup) and a shorter gearing ratio further improving accelaration times in higher speed ranges. Also, the new carbon brake option is a huge step forward.
In sum, this car is one of the best available, in particular for drivers who like it sporty even in a luxury and safe sedan
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
0two9 said:
It is pretty much the "balls" when it comes to luxury sedans. BMW has nothign to counter it at all.
If I needed a family hauler/commuting limo, S65 would be my easy choice....world's safest, most comfortable sedan....
BMW doesn't have a buyer base for $100K+ cars, let alone roughly $200K commuter cars....given how profitable 55/65 are for Merc, it's obvious BMW/Lexus would go after this lucrative mkt if they could....
But given BMW can't seem to even develop competent brakes and has steering feel about as anesthetic as an S/CL's (where's the performance car [Email]touch@BMW??)....and[/Email] BMW can't seem to even develop competent air cond sys or fit its cars w/>22gall fuel tanks (where's the GT car [Email]touch@BMW??)[/Email], I'm not at all surprised BMW has never succeeded in the $100K+ league....
Guys buying $200K 65's who also enjoy non-straight-line performance/feel typically own P/F for wkend use in the curves and use 65 for daily straight-line commuting duty....BMW does neither straight-line commuting nor wkend mtn twisties particularly well....
Not only for safety reasons I still prefer the A8 W12. There is nothing better than 4WD for a powerful car... Also, I like the discrete looks and the (design and build) quality of the interior of the A8.
Interesting viewpoint, MKSGR....personally have no need for a sedan/SUV, so use 996TTS as my rainy-day car
Wouldn't a Cayenne be an even safer snow weather choice than an Audi?
Unfortunately Mercedes offers their AWD system for the lower-power models only. There is no AWD available for the S65/S600 etc.
Thus Audi still holds the leading position in this area.
BTW: The A8 W12 with short wheel base handles very, very well for a car of that size. There are many (press included) that claim that the Audi A8 W12 is by far the best handling car in the luxury sedan segment.
In case of the short wheel base version of the W12 (which I actually prefer) the excellent handling is also supported by AAS Sport (Audi's sporty suspension setup) and a shorter gearing ratio further improving accelaration times in higher speed ranges. Also, the new carbon brake option is a huge step forward.
In sum, this car is one of the best available, in particular for drivers who like it sporty even in a luxury and safe sedan
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
RC said:
The new S8 is much sportier than the W12, highly recommended.
You might be right...
But then the W12 SWB is such a refined and nice car. With more torque over a broader rev range. And with a more descrete optical appearance. And a very, very smooze engine. It really is a lovely car
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
RC said:
The new S8 is much sportier than the W12, highly recommended.
You might be right...
But then the W12 SWB is such a refined and nice car. With more torque over a broader rev range. And with a more descrete optical appearance. And a very, very smooze engine. It really is a lovely car
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
zzboba said:
Quote:
Not only for safety reasons I still prefer the A8 W12. There is nothing better than 4WD for a powerful car... Also, I like the discrete looks and the (design and build) quality of the interior of the A8.
i'm not an audi man, but the A8 interior is just awesome.
You should test drive the W12 SWB. I am nearly sure you will like it very much
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
zzboba said:
Quote:
Not only for safety reasons I still prefer the A8 W12. There is nothing better than 4WD for a powerful car... Also, I like the discrete looks and the (design and build) quality of the interior of the A8.
i'm not an audi man, but the A8 interior is just awesome.
You should test drive the W12 SWB. I am nearly sure you will like it very much
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
RC said:
The new S8 is much sportier than the W12, highly recommended.
You might be right...
But then the W12 SWB is such a refined and nice car. With more torque over a broader rev range. And with a more descrete optical appearance. And a very, very smooze engine. It really is a lovely car
maybe i'm a little hypersensitive... but i'd prefer a clean layout V8 or V12 over a W-engine anytime. i always imagine ferdinand piech sitting over some tablecloth with his pen... "yeah, let's tie two 6-cylinders together... or three 4-cylinders... or four 3-cylinders..."
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
RC said:
The new S8 is much sportier than the W12, highly recommended.
You might be right...
But then the W12 SWB is such a refined and nice car. With more torque over a broader rev range. And with a more descrete optical appearance. And a very, very smooze engine. It really is a lovely car
maybe i'm a little hypersensitive... but i'd prefer a clean layout V8 or V12 over a W-engine anytime. i always imagine ferdinand piech sitting over some tablecloth with his pen... "yeah, let's tie two 6-cylinders together... or three 4-cylinders... or four 3-cylinders..."
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
zzboba said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
RC said:
The new S8 is much sportier than the W12, highly recommended.
You might be right...
But then the W12 SWB is such a refined and nice car. With more torque over a broader rev range. And with a more descrete optical appearance. And a very, very smooze engine. It really is a lovely car
maybe i'm a little hypersensitive... but i'd prefer a clean layout V8 or V12 over a W-engine anytime. i always imagine ferdinand piech sitting over some tablecloth with his pen... "yeah, let's tie two 6-cylinders together... or three 4-cylinders... or four 3-cylinders..."
Interesting... I have been thinking the same. The "W" always reminds me of two V6 merged together
Anyhow, you do not notice any disadvantages when you drive it
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
zzboba said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
RC said:
The new S8 is much sportier than the W12, highly recommended.
You might be right...
But then the W12 SWB is such a refined and nice car. With more torque over a broader rev range. And with a more descrete optical appearance. And a very, very smooze engine. It really is a lovely car
maybe i'm a little hypersensitive... but i'd prefer a clean layout V8 or V12 over a W-engine anytime. i always imagine ferdinand piech sitting over some tablecloth with his pen... "yeah, let's tie two 6-cylinders together... or three 4-cylinders... or four 3-cylinders..."
Interesting... I have been thinking the same. The "W" always reminds me of two V6 merged together
Anyhow, you do not notice any disadvantages when you drive it
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
0two9 said:
It is pretty much the "balls" when it comes to luxury sedans. BMW has nothign to counter it at all.
If I needed a family hauler/commuting limo, S65 would be my easy choice....world's safest, most comfortable sedan....
BMW doesn't have a buyer base for $100K+ cars, let alone roughly $200K commuter cars....given how profitable 55/65 are for Merc, it's obvious BMW/Lexus would go after this lucrative mkt if they could....
But given BMW can't seem to even develop competent brakes and has steering feel about as anesthetic as an S/CL's (where's the performance car [Email]touch@BMW??)....and[/Email] BMW can't seem to even develop competent air cond sys or fit its cars w/>22gall fuel tanks (where's the GT car [Email]touch@BMW??)[/Email], I'm not at all surprised BMW has never succeeded in the $100K+ league....
Guys buying $200K 65's who also enjoy non-straight-line performance/feel typically own P/F for wkend use in the curves and use 65 for daily straight-line commuting duty....BMW does neither straight-line commuting nor wkend mtn twisties particularly well....
Not only for safety reasons I still prefer the A8 W12. There is nothing better than 4WD for a powerful car... Also, I like the discrete looks and the (design and build) quality of the interior of the A8.
Interesting viewpoint, MKSGR....personally have no need for a sedan/SUV, so use 996TTS as my rainy-day car
Wouldn't a Cayenne be an even safer snow weather choice than an Audi?
Unfortunately Mercedes offers their AWD system for the lower-power models only. There is no AWD available for the S65/S600 etc.
Thus Audi still holds the leading position in this area.
BTW: The A8 W12 with short wheel base handles very, very well for a car of that size. There are many (press included) that claim that the Audi A8 W12 is by far the best handling car in the luxury sedan segment.
In case of the short wheel base version of the W12 (which I actually prefer) the excellent handling is also supported by AAS Sport (Audi's sporty suspension setup) and a shorter gearing ratio further improving accelaration times in higher speed ranges. Also, the new carbon brake option is a huge step forward.
In sum, this car is one of the best available, in particular for drivers who like it sporty even in a luxury and safe sedan
Thought that an S500 4Matic was offered in US...and I presume an S550 4Matic will be offered in new iteration...
Would appreciate any feedback you guys in Germany have on new S-Class to-date...seems to be a tech guy's dream sedan w/all the new safety and comfort innovations (and Dieter Z seems like a quality-focused exec)....have many pals getting new S550, 600 and 65s once released into US mkt.....seems to be a favored family man's car in SF (where temp rarely goes below 50ish degs F)....
So, you'd pick an Audi A8 W12 SWB over a Cayenne for safety and driving pleasure in Euro/E US winter driving? I thought Cayenne may be optimum choice for those conds.....is the SUV rollover risk and Cayenne's throttle hesitation issue what causes it to lose to Audi in your view?
Re: S65 AMG
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
0two9 said:
It is pretty much the "balls" when it comes to luxury sedans. BMW has nothign to counter it at all.
If I needed a family hauler/commuting limo, S65 would be my easy choice....world's safest, most comfortable sedan....
BMW doesn't have a buyer base for $100K+ cars, let alone roughly $200K commuter cars....given how profitable 55/65 are for Merc, it's obvious BMW/Lexus would go after this lucrative mkt if they could....
But given BMW can't seem to even develop competent brakes and has steering feel about as anesthetic as an S/CL's (where's the performance car [Email]touch@BMW??)....and[/Email] BMW can't seem to even develop competent air cond sys or fit its cars w/>22gall fuel tanks (where's the GT car [Email]touch@BMW??)[/Email], I'm not at all surprised BMW has never succeeded in the $100K+ league....
Guys buying $200K 65's who also enjoy non-straight-line performance/feel typically own P/F for wkend use in the curves and use 65 for daily straight-line commuting duty....BMW does neither straight-line commuting nor wkend mtn twisties particularly well....
Not only for safety reasons I still prefer the A8 W12. There is nothing better than 4WD for a powerful car... Also, I like the discrete looks and the (design and build) quality of the interior of the A8.
Interesting viewpoint, MKSGR....personally have no need for a sedan/SUV, so use 996TTS as my rainy-day car
Wouldn't a Cayenne be an even safer snow weather choice than an Audi?
Unfortunately Mercedes offers their AWD system for the lower-power models only. There is no AWD available for the S65/S600 etc.
Thus Audi still holds the leading position in this area.
BTW: The A8 W12 with short wheel base handles very, very well for a car of that size. There are many (press included) that claim that the Audi A8 W12 is by far the best handling car in the luxury sedan segment.
In case of the short wheel base version of the W12 (which I actually prefer) the excellent handling is also supported by AAS Sport (Audi's sporty suspension setup) and a shorter gearing ratio further improving accelaration times in higher speed ranges. Also, the new carbon brake option is a huge step forward.
In sum, this car is one of the best available, in particular for drivers who like it sporty even in a luxury and safe sedan
Thought that an S500 4Matic was offered in US...and I presume an S550 4Matic will be offered in new iteration...
Would appreciate any feedback you guys in Germany have on new S-Class to-date...seems to be a tech guy's dream sedan w/all the new safety and comfort innovations (and Dieter Z seems like a quality-focused exec)....have many pals getting new S550, 600 and 65s once released into US mkt.....seems to be a favored family man's car in SF (where temp rarely goes below 50ish degs F)....
So, you'd pick an Audi A8 W12 SWB over a Cayenne for safety and driving pleasure in Euro/E US winter driving? I thought Cayenne may be optimum choice for those conds.....is the SUV rollover risk and Cayenne's throttle hesitation issue what causes it to lose to Audi in your view?
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