Rennteam 2.0 - ES - Forum - Re: I'd say "undue cynicism" - Page1

11-nov-2003 21:15:57

RR4: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registrado desde: 07-abr-2003

New Gt3 crankcase

Change in GT3 crankcase
The upper photo was taken of a GT3 engine delivered from the first batch of GT3's delivered to the USA. Note that it has a 964 casting number and is actually the same casting used in the last air cooled cars.

The lower photo was taken of a GT3 delivered last week. Note has a different crankcase casting with a 996 casting number and the casting has been modified to eliminate features used in the air cooled cars. It also appears to have ribs not in the earlier crankcase. Both pictures are taken from same side of engine.

Taken from Rennlist website

__________________
1992 Carrera Cup USA Edition
Nissan 350Z

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11-nov-2003 21:17:16

RR4: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registrado desde: 07-abr-2003; Reply to: RR4

Re: New Gt3 crankcase

here is the second pic of the "newer" crankcase.

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11-nov-2003 21:37:41

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Alemania; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registrado desde: 26-mar-2002; Reply to: RR4

Re: New Gt3 crankcase

Quote:
Change in GT3 crankcase
The upper photo was taken of a GT3 engine delivered from the first batch of GT3's delivered to the USA. Note that it has a 964 casting number and is actually the same casting used in the last air cooled cars.

The lower photo was taken of a GT3 delivered last week. Note has a different crankcase casting with a 996 casting number and the casting has been modified to eliminate features used in the air cooled cars. It also appears to have ribs not in the earlier crankcase. Both pictures are taken from same side of engine.

Taken from Rennlist website

__________________
1992 Carrera Cup USA Edition
Nissan 350Z

You'll be surprised to learn that there are several different crankcase part numbers (and even some optical differences) on the 996 Turbo since they started selling it.
This is nothing special, the crankcase design changes sometimes, the engines are practically the same. Even the part number doesn't play a role, the 996 or 964 don't mean anything anymore.

As far as I know, Porsche changed the manufacturer of the crankcase and there have been some design mods too, not something to worry about. It always happens during a car's life span and it doesn't necessarily indicate that they improved something or not. Sometimes it is even only about production cost.

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11-nov-2003 22:20:02

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registrado desde: 21-ago-2003; Reply to: RC

Re: New Gt3 crankcase

OMG, is that cosmoline? Is there a way for you to order a car with out that junk on it? You know for future concourses.

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11-nov-2003 22:30:41

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , Estados Unidos; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registrado desde: 21-ago-2002; Reply to: RR4

Re: New Gt3 crankcase

Also, the new one is Spanish rather than German...

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12-nov-2003 3:37:48

ksalno: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 120, Gallery; Registrado desde: 21-dic-2002; Reply to: Texas911

Re: New Gt3 crankcase

Quote:
OMG, is that cosmoline? Is there a way for you to order a car with out that junk on it? You know for future concourses.

Sure, take factory delivery and then have the car air-shipped to the States. Should only cost about $5-8K.

Karl

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12-nov-2003 10:27:51

trz: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 16, Gallery; Registrado desde: 06-abr-2002; Reply to: RC

"Sometimes it is even only about production cost."

Bingo!

I'll take the 964 crankcase, please.

I have a GT3 on order, which I may cancel and look for a used model with the 964 crankcase, or cancel the order altogether.

Healthy skepticism or undue cynicism?

Trz

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12-nov-2003 15:37:50

Steve in FL: Junior; Loc: FL Space Coast; Posts: 92, Gallery; Registrado desde: 21-jun-2003; Reply to: trz

Re: I'd say "undue cynicism"

Despite the 996 part # on the new GT3 case it has nothing in common with the "standard" 996/Boxster engine case. It's simply an evolution of the 964 case design to remove the remnants of being used for air cooled engines like the oil return tube holes and air deflector mounts. And there's speculation the new design may be stronger (note the reinfrcing "dimples" in the photo). The cost cutting in this case (no pun intended) would seem to be Porsche using a non-German supplier rather than a cheaper design on the new engine case.

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12-nov-2003 17:40:00

Radar: Co-Pilot; Loc: The Frozen North; Posts: 189, Gallery; Registrado desde: 06-abr-2002; Reply to: Steve in FL

Re: I'd say "undue cynicism"

Quote:
Despite the 996 part # on the new GT3 case it has nothing in common with the "standard" 996/Boxster engine case. It's simply an evolution of the 964 case design to remove the remnants of being used for air cooled engines like the oil return tube holes and air deflector mounts. And there's speculation the new design may be stronger (note the reinfrcing "dimples" in the photo). The cost cutting in this case (no pun intended) would seem to be Porsche using a non-German supplier rather than a cheaper design on the new engine case.

That's correct. The standard 996 crankcase has water jackets and cylinders built-in. Whereas the GT3 crankcase is similar to pre-996 pieces with no water cooling and cylinders. Nothing wrong with the Spanish built unit either. There are a lot of non-German items in every Porsche. Should that stop you from buying the cars? It's up to you, but I would be more concerned about Hungarian electrical parts than a Spanish crankcase.

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12-nov-2003 17:41:49

Radar: Co-Pilot; Loc: The Frozen North; Posts: 189, Gallery; Registrado desde: 06-abr-2002; Reply to: trz

Re: "Sometimes it is even only about production cost."

Quote:
Healthy skepticism or undue cynicism?

That is preposterous.

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12-nov-2003 17:53:02

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Alemania; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registrado desde: 26-mar-2002; Reply to: trz

Re: "Sometimes it is even only about production cost."

Quote:
Bingo!

I'll take the 964 crankcase, please.

I have a GT3 on order, which I may cancel and look for a used model with the 964 crankcase, or cancel the order altogether.

Healthy skepticism or undue cynicism?

Trz

Did you read my post? Maybe you should read it again.

Oh boy, is my English really that bad?

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12-nov-2003 17:58:51

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Alemania; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registrado desde: 26-mar-2002; Reply to: Steve in FL

Re: I'd say "undue cynicism"

Quote:
Despite the 996 part # on the new GT3 case it has nothing in common with the "standard" 996/Boxster engine case. It's simply an evolution of the 964 case design to remove the remnants of being used for air cooled engines like the oil return tube holes and air deflector mounts. And there's speculation the new design may be stronger (note the reinfrcing "dimples" in the photo). The cost cutting in this case (no pun intended) would seem to be Porsche using a non-German supplier rather than a cheaper design on the new engine case.

Right indeed and...the GT3 IS IN FACT a 996 model, people seem to forget it.
The 911 Turbo is a 996 too, even the current 911 GT2 is a 996. The part number doesn't really say anything.
And to finish the whole discussion (and repeat myself again and again

): the 996(!) GT3 has a COMPLETELY different engine compared to the 996(!) C2, C4, C4S and Targa. Please note the exclamation mark, ALL current 911 models are internally called 996.

And to REALLY finish all discussions about part numbers: the 964 part number doesn't indicate that this is a part number from the 964, even the parts with the 964 at the beginning have undergone changes and changes over the past few years.

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