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    Dec 18, 2005 4:38:10 AM

    NDRFUN
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    NDRFUN
    Loc: SF- BAY AREA
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    PCCB Questions

    Let's say I had more money then sense (probably good to get that comment out of the way) and was thinking about adding the PCCB to my 2006 C2S. I have a few questions:

    1. Is there any benefit (beyond bragging rights) if you are not going to spend a lot of time at the track?

    2. Are they durable...or as durable as the stock brakes?

    3. Is a brake job like a billion dollars? I read that the PCCB on the CGT was an enormous amount of money.

    4. Can you get the calipers in others colors or is yellow the only option.

    5. If I took the plunge is there any resale value for my stock brakes (380 miles)?

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    Dec 18, 2005 3:05:09 PM

    SVNSVN
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    SVNSVN
    Loc: CA, USA
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    Reply to: NDRFUN

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Less weight per brake- about 50% less- and less fade too.

    I checked, it's yellow- or pay thousands more for the factory to paint them another color. Personally, I wouldn't have them painted afterwards- not sure how the paint would hold up.

    They are on my list!

    Sorry I can't help with the other questions.

    Dec 18, 2005 3:50:58 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
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    Reply to: NDRFUN

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    NDRFUN said:
    Let's say I had more money then sense (probably good to get that comment out of the way) and was thinking about adding the PCCB to my 2006 C2S. I have a few questions:

    1. Is there any benefit (beyond bragging rights) if you are not going to spend a lot of time at the track?

    2. Are they durable...or as durable as the stock brakes?

    3. Is a brake job like a billion dollars? I read that the PCCB on the CGT was an enormous amount of money.

    4. Can you get the calipers in others colors or is yellow the only option.

    5. If I took the plunge is there any resale value for my stock brakes (380 miles)?

    Thanks for your thoughts.


    1. There is a handling improvement from the lower unsprung weight on the suspension.
    2. They are purported to be more durable than steel (especially on the street).
    3. Replacing the rotors is VERY expensive but should be a very infrequent occurence with street driving.
    4. Changing the color would best be achieved by having them powder-coated aftermarket (assuming you didn't want to pay for the factory option). Powder coating and replacing "Porsche" logo would cost under $1k including remove/reinstall and be very durable and heat-resistant.
    5. Yes, your stock brakes could be sold on ebay or a Porsche forum rather easily (for a fraction of their new cost). I assume that someone with a 997 (not S) might like the upgrade.

    Please also keep in mind that there is one other advantage (minimal brake dust) and one disadvatage (poorer performance in wet and/or cold weather until they heat up, from what I hear)

    Dec 18, 2005 3:53:17 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
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    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: SVNSVN

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    SVNSVN said:
    Less weight per brake- about 50% less- and less fade too.



    The rotors weigh 50% less, but the calipers don't, so total brake system weight savings is much less than 50%.

    Fade on the 997S steel brakes would be nearly impossible to induce on the street (unless done intentionally)...

    Dec 18, 2005 4:23:38 PM

    bstew
    Expert
    bstew
    Loc: NC, USA
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Anyone know what the cost of adding PCCB is? I have a C2 (non S).

    Dec 18, 2005 4:31:45 PM

    doc2s
    Junior
    doc2s
    Loc: boston, usa
    Posts: 113, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 27, 2005
    Reply to: bstew

    Re: PCCB Questions

    pccb are avilable at 13k from suncoat motorsport. not sure about labor cost.

    Dec 18, 2005 4:53:59 PM

    bstew
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    bstew
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    Reply to: doc2s

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    doc2s said:
    pccb are avilable at 13k from suncoat motorsport. not sure about labor cost.



    Ouch! Well that is too rich for my blood. I would love to have it but maybe next time I will order it from the factory.

    Dec 18, 2005 6:00:09 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
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    Reply to: bstew

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    bstew said:
    Quote:
    doc2s said:
    pccb are avilable at 13k from suncoat motorsport. not sure about labor cost.



    Ouch! Well that is too rich for my blood. I would love to have it but maybe next time I will order it from the factory.


    It ain't cheap from the factory either (more than $8k, I think) and at least you could get something for your current brakes (~$2k perhaps).

    I don't think this option makes alot of sense until the price comes down (which it should dramatically - just a matter of "When?"). There are too many other things you can do to improve your car for that kind of money. The stock brakes are excellent...

    Dec 18, 2005 6:10:44 PM

    Turbo Al Offline
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    Turbo Al
    Loc: Rochester, New York , United States
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    Grant said:

    Please also keep in mind that there is one other advantage (minimal brake dust) and one disadvatage (poorer performance in wet and/or cold weather until they heat up, from what I hear)



    As Grant says, definitely be careful in the wet-particularly after you wash the car and wheels and rinse the wheels-if you drive it right after, get a feel for the braking ability until they dry. Since the brakes can stop the car on a dime, you will no doubt be used to quick stops from decent speeds, but right after spraying them down, give yourself a few extra feet to stop.

    Dec 18, 2005 8:48:03 PM

    Turbo 911
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    Turbo 911
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    Reply to: NDRFUN

    Re: PCCB Questions

    There is absolutely LITTLE benefit if it is not for track use - the reds will not fade under street driving or even heavy driving and are still very effective, the extra weight is not an issue either - cornering will still be fantastic, the majority of people who buy used Porsches may not want or understand PCCB and so resale value may not be significantly higher than those similar but without PCCB. PCCB servicing is not that much I recall and I doubt it is worth 5k option. I would rather spend it on something else.

    Dec 18, 2005 10:01:54 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59581, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: NDRFUN

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    NDRFUN said:
    Let's say I had more money then sense (probably good to get that comment out of the way) and was thinking about adding the PCCB to my 2006 C2S. I have a few questions:

    1. Is there any benefit (beyond bragging rights) if you are not going to spend a lot of time at the track?

    2. Are they durable...or as durable as the stock brakes?

    3. Is a brake job like a billion dollars? I read that the PCCB on the CGT was an enormous amount of money.

    4. Can you get the calipers in others colors or is yellow the only option.

    5. If I took the plunge is there any resale value for my stock brakes (380 miles)?

    Thanks for your thoughts.



    1. besides the lower UNSPRUNG WEIGHT (which gives you a certain handling advantage), they also provide better braking power from higher speeds and what I always liked most about them: dosage feel. They provide a much better brake feel, you can actually adjust the brake force very precisely with your foot only. Incredible setup.

    2. as long as you don't hit a hammer against them...
    Yes, they're durable but the "older" 150000 mls durability are not quite accurate I'm afraid. I'd say the discs last around five to six times longer than the standard steel ones and even the brake pads last longer (my car had almost 18000 km and brake pads were still half good).

    3. the PCCB costs a lot of money but not THAT much. I don't know about the prices in the US but over here in Germany, a PCCB disc (new one) is around 2500 Euro incl. 16% VAT. Maybe slightly less. There are however "exchange" discs which cost much less (800 Euro each?) if your PCCB discs is still "usable" for "refurbishing".

    4. over here in Germany, you can get the PCCB brake calipers in many different colours, price tag was around 2700 Euro incl. 16% VAT last time I asked. This is a from factory only option and not available to all countries.

    5. I doubt that there is really a good resale value for your "old" brakes but who knows, maybe?

    In my opinion, a retrofit doesn't make much sense because it costs a fortune. You better return your car and get a new one with PCCB, in the end it would probably cost you the same money.

    Dec 18, 2005 10:13:48 PM

    86BBUB
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    86BBUB
    Loc: NY
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: PCCB Questions

    I would think that the best reason to get pccb for a street car would be the reduction in wheel dust. On a lighter color car the wheels need attention far before the rest of the car so I could see them contributing your enjoyment of it. Maybe less significant on a darker car or on a car owned by someone who enjoys detailing.

    Dec 19, 2005 1:10:39 PM

    booger
    Junior
    booger
    Loc: Boston
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    Reply to: 86BBUB

    Re: PCCB Questions

    For what it's worth I haven't noticed any problems when the brakes are wet. I like them, haven't missed the $8k. Have I mentioned no brake dust?

    Dec 19, 2005 1:26:37 PM

    Mike S
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    Mike S
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    RC said:
    3. the PCCB costs a lot of money but not THAT much. I don't know about the prices in the US but over here in Germany, a PCCB disc (new one) is around 2500 Euro incl. 16% VAT. Maybe slightly less. There are however "exchange" discs which cost much less (800 Euro each?) if your PCCB discs is still "usable" for "refurbishing".




    Damn, PCCB's cost 12,000 Euros here

    Dec 19, 2005 1:35:08 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
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    Reply to: booger

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    booger said:
    For what it's worth I haven't noticed any problems when the brakes are wet. I like them, haven't missed the $8k. Have I mentioned no brake dust?



    Yes, brake dust...another reason to go for the PCCB, sorry. Forgot that. There are no problems when the brakes are wet, I don't know why people mention this over and over again. IF they have a problem, they should contact their dealer immediately. From my experience, there is only one single problem with wetness: after washing the car, there is almost no braking power and I'm not kidding. Press the brake pedal a few times very hard while the car is moving slowly and you're done (just be careful that there is nobody behind you... ). Otherwise, even during heavy rain and even during heavy snowing, there is no problem at all with the PCCB.

    Dec 19, 2005 2:49:53 PM

    jboyko
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    jboyko
    Loc: NEWARK, NJ
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    Registered on: Dec 5, 2004
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Christian, I thought that we had agreed that only you, and two other guys in the world, did not experience a rain issue with PCCB.

    jb

    Dec 19, 2005 3:08:10 PM

    FutchM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Futch
    Loc: EU , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: jboyko

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    jboyko said:
    Christian, I thought that we had agreed that only you, and two other guys in the world, did not experience a rain issue with PCCB.

    jb



    Make that three!
    I drove back my car from south of France on delivery day under snow and rain.
    No problem whatsoever.

    Dec 19, 2005 3:18:35 PM

    ScottL
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    ScottL
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    Reply to: jboyko

    Re: PCCB Questions

    My experiences are the same ac RC's. No performance problems in the rain or any other conditions!

    I have found they squeak a little in very cold weather or after periods of slow town driving.

    Overall though, they're great. Shame Porsche charges so much for them.

    Dec 19, 2005 3:43:57 PM

    WBH
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    WBH
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    booger said:
    For what it's worth I haven't noticed any problems when the brakes are wet. I like them, haven't missed the $8k. Have I mentioned no brake dust?



    Yes, brake dust...another reason to go for the PCCB, sorry. Forgot that. There are no problems when the brakes are wet, I don't know why people mention this over and over again. IF they have a problem, they should contact their dealer immediately. From my experience, there is only one single problem with wetness: after washing the car, there is almost no braking power and I'm not kidding. Press the brake pedal a few times very hard while the car is moving slowly and you're done (just be careful that there is nobody behind you... ). Otherwise, even during heavy rain and even during heavy snowing, there is no problem at all with the PCCB.



    Have driven 996TTS 15K mis in various conds....phenom brakes But, actually, another uncommon scenario exists where PCCB could surprise you in rain....yest drove my 996TTS about 25-30 mis in heavy rain on SF fwy at 75-80MPH w/no need to apply brakes....but when I finally moved to the (long straight) off-ramp and applied brakes nothing happened for seemingly 3-4 secs before PCCB finally kicked in....thankfully, an empty off-ramp and no drama...but I hope 997TT has PCCB w/the periodic "drying" feature that I believe 997C4S has....possibly useful for "extended wet cruising"....

    Dec 19, 2005 3:45:21 PM

    SoCal Alan
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    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Quote:
    jboyko said:
    Christian, I thought that we had agreed that only you, and two other guys in the world, did not experience a rain issue with PCCB.

    jb



    Make that three!
    I drove back my car from south of France on delivery day under snow and rain.
    No problem whatsoever.



    Make that four of us. I've never had a problem with the PCCB's in rain, after car washes, etc. And I drive my car every day.

    Dec 19, 2005 4:25:41 PM

    P997C2S
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    P997C2S
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Someone correct me if this is false info. I was told by sales reps at two different dealers that the PCCB rotors are fragile and great care must be taken when mounting/dismounting wheel/tire assemblies to prevent damaging them.

    Dec 19, 2005 6:54:05 PM

    bstew
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    bstew
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: PCCB Questions

    If I had PCCB I would get use to them. Man why do they cost soooooo much

    Dec 19, 2005 11:35:54 PM

    gian61 Offline
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    gian61
    Loc: Pavia , Italy
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    Reply to: bstew

    Re: PCCB Questions

    PCCB rotor are also very fragile if sprayed it for washing with cold water, after an intense use with high temperature,
    thermic shock may be damage the pseudo-ceramic material.
    -

    Dec 20, 2005 12:27:03 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
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    Reply to: gian61

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    gian61 said:
    PCCB rotor are also very fragile if sprayed it for washing with cold water, after an intense use with high temperature,
    thermic shock may be damage the pseudo-ceramic material.
    -



    It is very easy to damage the discs, just take a little hammer and...NO, don't do it. But seriously: if some crazy guy would get the idea...

    Dec 20, 2005 4:00:39 AM

    Grant
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    Grant
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    gian61 said:
    PCCB rotor are also very fragile if sprayed it for washing with cold water, after an intense use with high temperature,
    thermic shock may be damage the pseudo-ceramic material.
    -



    It is very easy to damage the discs, just take a little hammer and...NO, don't do it. But seriously: if some crazy guy would get the idea...


    Oh, that's a terrible idea for a vandal - that would be an easy way to cause someone alot of expense

    I hope this doesn't start to happen, or the cost of insurance on a car with PCCB would become VERY expensive in a short time

    Dec 20, 2005 1:34:20 PM

    jboyko
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    jboyko
    Loc: NEWARK, NJ
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: PCCB Questions

    What are the chances, that you'll come off a blistering hot lap, where your rotors are cherry red. Then, jump out of your car, when an evil Ferrari owner jumps out of the bushes and sprays your PCCB's with water. If your rotors were steel, they would warp with the water. Albeit, the steel ones would be cheaper to replace.

    It's guys like SoCal, that ruin it for everyone.

    jb

    Dec 20, 2005 9:24:21 PM

    Hollli82
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    Hollli82
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    Reply to: jboyko

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    What are the chances, that you'll come off a blistering hot lap, where your rotors are cherry red. Then, jump out of your car, when an evil Ferrari owner jumps out of the bushes and sprays your PCCB's with water.



    ....see, that's exactly the scenario that I was worried about. Otherwise I would've ordered PCCB's too.

    I would bet for most of us on this board the big red calipers are sufficient for all driving to include the track. I'm sure there are a few who would benefit from PCCB's but they are awfully expensive. I doubt that anyone on this board will drive their car for 2-3 months before washing, so the "less brake dust" arguement is probably not a good reason alone.

    Dec 21, 2005 8:16:18 PM

    W8MM
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    Reply to: Hollli82

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    Hollli82 said:
    I doubt that anyone on this board will drive their car for 2-3 months before washing, so the "less brake dust" arguement is probably not a good reason alone.



    It didn't take 2-3 months for brake dust to get really ugly on my 996TT coupe. More like 2-3 hours of driving.

    I purchased PCCB on my 996TT cabriolet mainly for the lack of brake dust and am very happy with the decision.

    Now the wheels stay as clean as the rest of the car. Or I should say: The wheels don't get dirty faster than the body of the car.

    Dec 21, 2005 9:51:37 PM

    Hollli82
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    Hollli82
    Loc: Las Vegas, USA
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    It didn't take 2-3 months for brake dust to get really ugly on my 996TT coupe. More like 2-3 hours of driving.

    I purchased PCCB on my 996TT cabriolet mainly for the lack of brake dust and am very happy with the decision.

    Now the wheels stay as clean as the rest of the car. Or I should say: The wheels don't get dirty faster than the body of the car.



    No arguement from me that there will be less brake dust with PCCB's. I wash my car at least once a week so I am not too worried about the amount of brake dust that I will generate. If money were no object, I would have PCCB's too. I just decided to put $$ into the X-51 instead. I'll deal with the brake dust. I don't think I'll be disappointed in the performance of the Red calipers.

    Dec 21, 2005 10:43:18 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
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    Reply to: gian61

    Re: PCCB Questions

    Quote:
    gian61 said:
    PCCB rotor are also very fragile if sprayed it for washing with cold water, after an intense use with high temperature,
    thermic shock may be damage the pseudo-ceramic material.
    -



    The PCCB discs cool down pretty fast. It would need some crazy guy with an ice cold water spray to ride on your front trunk, grab himself to the hood with the left hand and spray on the cold water to your disc with his other hand. To make it short: IMPOSSIBLE. After you stop the car, the ceramic composite material cools down immediately and I doubt that the water temperature would be somewhere slightly above zero degrees celsius.

    The latest PCCB generation doesn't even squeak at cold temperatures anymore, I'd say that it is almost perfect.

    People should NOT retrofit the PCCB because it costs a fortune. If somebody isn't sure if he should get PCCB or not, GET it. Retrofitting it costs MUCH MUCH more, I think that the price tag including install is almost double of the original price from the factory on a new car. Forget it.
     
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