Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Handling - Page1

Oct 26, 2003 3:05:22 AM

PBGlas: Junior; Loc: Chicago, USA; Posts: 109, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2003

Handling

RC, you are being extensively quoted. I would appreciate your comments on hte substance of the debate. Has to do with E55 handling.

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56006

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Oct 26, 2003 2:41:19 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: PBGlas

Re: Handling

Quote:
RC, you are being extensively quoted. I would appreciate your comments on hte substance of the debate. Has to do with E55 handling.

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56006

Highly interesting thread but actually I'm not quite sure what it is all about. Comparing the E55 to the 996 Turbo of course is somehow comparing apples to oranges. But I didn't say the E55 in the sport setup 2 handles as a 996 Turbo but as a 996 (C2). Add the M030 suspension to the 996 and things look different but anyway, pretty impressive for an almost 2 ton limousine.

I try to write a more extensive comment tonite or tomorrow, right now I'm a little bit busy with my job.

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Oct 26, 2003 2:41:19 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: PBGlas

Re: Handling

Quote:
RC, you are being extensively quoted. I would appreciate your comments on hte substance of the debate. Has to do with E55 handling.

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56006

Highly interesting thread but actually I'm not quite sure what it is all about. Comparing the E55 to the 996 Turbo of course is somehow comparing apples to oranges. But I didn't say the E55 in the sport setup 2 handles as a 996 Turbo but as a 996 (C2). Add the M030 suspension to the 996 and things look different but anyway, pretty impressive for an almost 2 ton limousine.

I try to write a more extensive comment tonite or tomorrow, right now I'm a little bit busy with my job.

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Oct 26, 2003 4:04:10 PM

PBGlas: Junior; Loc: Chicago, USA; Posts: 109, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Handling

Thanks for writing your comments when you do.

A British Magazine hammered the handling of the E55 comparing it unfavorably to the E320 and E500 (even).

Based on your review I have an order in for the E55. I drove an RS6. If the E55 is even close it is fine for me. Unfortunately I cannot test drive hte E55. The thread has me worried.

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Oct 26, 2003 4:04:10 PM

PBGlas: Junior; Loc: Chicago, USA; Posts: 109, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Handling

Thanks for writing your comments when you do.

A British Magazine hammered the handling of the E55 comparing it unfavorably to the E320 and E500 (even).

Based on your review I have an order in for the E55. I drove an RS6. If the E55 is even close it is fine for me. Unfortunately I cannot test drive hte E55. The thread has me worried.

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Oct 26, 2003 6:31:18 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: PBGlas

Re: Handling

Quote:
A British Magazine hammered the handling of the E55 comparing it unfavorably to the E320 and E500 (even).

I had a E500 as a factory loaner for a few days, I can assure you that the E55 is worlds ahead regarding handling. The E500 feels lighter (because it is lighter) and the steering feels lighter (because it is less sporty and direct) but in no way the E500 is even slightly close to the E55's handling.

The E55 has practically the same "problem" as the 911 Turbo: you have to know how to drive to be fast...REAL fast.
It might feel dull at the beginning but the faster you go, the more confident the drive feels. It is very impressive for such a heavy weight limousine. Same with the brake: it feels artificial and sometimes numb but as soon as you press that brake pedal with sufficient muscle force, you get very impressive results.

People just have to get used to it.

One "problem" is the Airmatic because most people aren't used to auto-/semi-adaptive suspension systems: if you leave the standard setting on, the E55 can be quite a disappointment. A few days ago I forgot to turn again to Sport Setting 2 (I drove on a very bad country road before and turned to normal setting because of my two children) and when I took a sharp turn, the rear slightly slipped away (due to the AMG installed LSD, my car behaves a little bit different now) and I got a pretty nasty sideroll with immediate strong understeer following. I was very suprised to see that happen and couldn't explain it but a few seconds later, I realized I had turned off the Sport Setting 2. After I switched back to SS2, the E55 felt good again. I also drove the RS6 and I must say that the steering feels a little bit more direct on it compared to the E55. But the powerul supercharged V8 engine still impresses me and I'd never want to go for a RS6 instead, even if I'm a AWD lover.

I have one warning for you however: the traction on the E55 is really bad. So if you want to win red light races, this is the wrong car for you. If you want to track race it, it might not be the right car either. And even in winter time or when it is wet, this car is no fun. It needs the LSD and the modified gearbox ECU to be track-ready and even then, it is still no real track machine. I love to call my E55 my "Family 911 Turbo" and I really think that it is. Well, until the new M5 shows up which could turn up to be an even better "Family 911 Turbo".

Regarding the Porsche 911: the C2 and Turbo have different suspension setups, you can't compare them. The Turbo already is pretty stiff and lowered, the C2 has a similar setup with M030 only but even then, the 911 Turbo feels more stiff and direct. So I'd never want to compare the E55 to the 911 Turbo regarding handling, I was talking about the engines and power only. I know two other E55 owners personally and both drive the standard Airmatic setup because they think the Sport Setting 2 setup is too stiff. This is why most people who drove a E55 might not like the E55 vs. 996 C2 comparison. But regarding handling, this is a pretty good comparison because the E55 really feels like a 996 C2 with SS2 activated, only that it feels overall heavier.
The only real problem I see with the E55 is traction. I seldom drove a car with worse traction capabilities (well, my wife's SLK32 AMG isn't better at all

) and I think it badly needs 4-matic (AWD) or at least the limited slip differential I got installed by AMG as an aftermarket option. The ESP light still comes on but it doesn't radically shut off power as it did before the LSD install and this is a much better setup.

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Oct 26, 2003 6:31:18 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: PBGlas

Re: Handling

Quote:
A British Magazine hammered the handling of the E55 comparing it unfavorably to the E320 and E500 (even).

I had a E500 as a factory loaner for a few days, I can assure you that the E55 is worlds ahead regarding handling. The E500 feels lighter (because it is lighter) and the steering feels lighter (because it is less sporty and direct) but in no way the E500 is even slightly close to the E55's handling.

The E55 has practically the same "problem" as the 911 Turbo: you have to know how to drive to be fast...REAL fast.
It might feel dull at the beginning but the faster you go, the more confident the drive feels. It is very impressive for such a heavy weight limousine. Same with the brake: it feels artificial and sometimes numb but as soon as you press that brake pedal with sufficient muscle force, you get very impressive results.

People just have to get used to it.

One "problem" is the Airmatic because most people aren't used to auto-/semi-adaptive suspension systems: if you leave the standard setting on, the E55 can be quite a disappointment. A few days ago I forgot to turn again to Sport Setting 2 (I drove on a very bad country road before and turned to normal setting because of my two children) and when I took a sharp turn, the rear slightly slipped away (due to the AMG installed LSD, my car behaves a little bit different now) and I got a pretty nasty sideroll with immediate strong understeer following. I was very suprised to see that happen and couldn't explain it but a few seconds later, I realized I had turned off the Sport Setting 2. After I switched back to SS2, the E55 felt good again. I also drove the RS6 and I must say that the steering feels a little bit more direct on it compared to the E55. But the powerul supercharged V8 engine still impresses me and I'd never want to go for a RS6 instead, even if I'm a AWD lover.

I have one warning for you however: the traction on the E55 is really bad. So if you want to win red light races, this is the wrong car for you. If you want to track race it, it might not be the right car either. And even in winter time or when it is wet, this car is no fun. It needs the LSD and the modified gearbox ECU to be track-ready and even then, it is still no real track machine. I love to call my E55 my "Family 911 Turbo" and I really think that it is. Well, until the new M5 shows up which could turn up to be an even better "Family 911 Turbo".

Regarding the Porsche 911: the C2 and Turbo have different suspension setups, you can't compare them. The Turbo already is pretty stiff and lowered, the C2 has a similar setup with M030 only but even then, the 911 Turbo feels more stiff and direct. So I'd never want to compare the E55 to the 911 Turbo regarding handling, I was talking about the engines and power only. I know two other E55 owners personally and both drive the standard Airmatic setup because they think the Sport Setting 2 setup is too stiff. This is why most people who drove a E55 might not like the E55 vs. 996 C2 comparison. But regarding handling, this is a pretty good comparison because the E55 really feels like a 996 C2 with SS2 activated, only that it feels overall heavier.
The only real problem I see with the E55 is traction. I seldom drove a car with worse traction capabilities (well, my wife's SLK32 AMG isn't better at all

) and I think it badly needs 4-matic (AWD) or at least the limited slip differential I got installed by AMG as an aftermarket option. The ESP light still comes on but it doesn't radically shut off power as it did before the LSD install and this is a much better setup.

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Oct 26, 2003 7:29:07 PM

PBGlas: Junior; Loc: Chicago, USA; Posts: 109, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Handling

Thanks RC. You might have wanted ot start a new thread so more viewers would look at it!

How do you compare the suspension of the RS6 ves the E55 in the sports 2 mode. Which gives the more level turns? How big is hte difference?

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Oct 26, 2003 7:29:07 PM

PBGlas: Junior; Loc: Chicago, USA; Posts: 109, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Handling

Thanks RC. You might have wanted ot start a new thread so more viewers would look at it!

How do you compare the suspension of the RS6 ves the E55 in the sports 2 mode. Which gives the more level turns? How big is hte difference?

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Oct 26, 2003 10:54:50 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: PBGlas

Re: Handling

Quote:
Thanks RC. You might have wanted ot start a new thread so more viewers would look at it!

How do you compare the suspension of the RS6 ves the E55 in the sports 2 mode. Which gives the more level turns? How big is hte difference?

I have to admit that the RS6 feels a bit more direct (steering) and a little bit more sporty (I know this is a stupid word but it is true). However, I would say that in the right hands, both cars would probably move at the same speed on the track. On the straigth line, the RS6 stands no chance against the E55...unless the E55 has traction problems (wet or slippery pavement, etc.).

To be honest: if I'd live in the US, I'd go for a Porsche Cayenne Turbo.

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Oct 26, 2003 10:54:50 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: PBGlas

Re: Handling

Quote:
Thanks RC. You might have wanted ot start a new thread so more viewers would look at it!

How do you compare the suspension of the RS6 ves the E55 in the sports 2 mode. Which gives the more level turns? How big is hte difference?

I have to admit that the RS6 feels a bit more direct (steering) and a little bit more sporty (I know this is a stupid word but it is true). However, I would say that in the right hands, both cars would probably move at the same speed on the track. On the straigth line, the RS6 stands no chance against the E55...unless the E55 has traction problems (wet or slippery pavement, etc.).

To be honest: if I'd live in the US, I'd go for a Porsche Cayenne Turbo.

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Oct 27, 2003 2:13:36 PM

trz: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 16, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 6, 2002; Reply to: RC

RS6

RC,
Since you state that the RS6 is maybe sportier and has a better steering feel, is dry weather straight line speed the reason you prefer the E55? I am considering an RS6 and would appreciate any further comments you could make about that car.

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Oct 27, 2003 2:13:36 PM

trz: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 16, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 6, 2002; Reply to: RC

RS6

RC,
Since you state that the RS6 is maybe sportier and has a better steering feel, is dry weather straight line speed the reason you prefer the E55? I am considering an RS6 and would appreciate any further comments you could make about that car.

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Oct 27, 2003 4:46:47 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: trz

Re: RS6

Quote:
is dry weather straight line speed the reason you prefer the E55? I am considering an RS6 and would appreciate any further comments you could make about that car.

Yes, I needed a limousine with almost the same straight line performance as the 911 Turbo and the E55 was the only choice available. I also like other features on the E55:
1. it has a lot of interior room and especially a huge trunk
2. the adjustable suspension comes very handy, for example when you park the car (high boardwalks), on roads with bad pavement and even in snow. You can raise the suspension almost to SUV height.

3. the engine is divine, I'd say this is the best engine I ever drove, lots of torque, lots of power and the sound isn't bad either (but could be louder of course

).
4. the COMAND APS Nav system is great, fast and the H/K sound system is just divine
5. the overall look and feel of the interior is much more to my liking, I also like the exterior shape more

If ultimate power is of no importance to you, if you need a car with better traction, especially for bad weather or even snow, the RS6 might definetely be the better choice.

Don't forget one thing: for me, the E55 was a MUST buy because I had to get rid of my 996 Turbo RS-Tuning and I needed a very fast family car. In the US, my choice would be the Cayenne Turbo and even here in Germany, it makes much more sense as a family car than a E55 or RS6. If you don't have kids (or a dog

), forget about the E55 or RS6 and buy yourself something nice, fast and sporty.

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Oct 27, 2003 4:46:47 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: trz

Re: RS6

Quote:
is dry weather straight line speed the reason you prefer the E55? I am considering an RS6 and would appreciate any further comments you could make about that car.

Yes, I needed a limousine with almost the same straight line performance as the 911 Turbo and the E55 was the only choice available. I also like other features on the E55:
1. it has a lot of interior room and especially a huge trunk
2. the adjustable suspension comes very handy, for example when you park the car (high boardwalks), on roads with bad pavement and even in snow. You can raise the suspension almost to SUV height.

3. the engine is divine, I'd say this is the best engine I ever drove, lots of torque, lots of power and the sound isn't bad either (but could be louder of course

).
4. the COMAND APS Nav system is great, fast and the H/K sound system is just divine
5. the overall look and feel of the interior is much more to my liking, I also like the exterior shape more

If ultimate power is of no importance to you, if you need a car with better traction, especially for bad weather or even snow, the RS6 might definetely be the better choice.

Don't forget one thing: for me, the E55 was a MUST buy because I had to get rid of my 996 Turbo RS-Tuning and I needed a very fast family car. In the US, my choice would be the Cayenne Turbo and even here in Germany, it makes much more sense as a family car than a E55 or RS6. If you don't have kids (or a dog

), forget about the E55 or RS6 and buy yourself something nice, fast and sporty.

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Oct 27, 2003 6:57:25 PM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: RS6

RC, any thoughts on a Brabus exhaust? Their 6.1 V8 is the best sounding V8 in the world, but second to the SL55 though

Could you ask them to make your E55 sound like the Brabus 6.1 Sportcoupe? I know you probably wouldnt want to, but if you did....

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Oct 27, 2003 6:57:25 PM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: RS6

RC, any thoughts on a Brabus exhaust? Their 6.1 V8 is the best sounding V8 in the world, but second to the SL55 though

Could you ask them to make your E55 sound like the Brabus 6.1 Sportcoupe? I know you probably wouldnt want to, but if you did....

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Oct 28, 2003 9:58:45 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Bilal

Re: RS6

Quote:
RC, any thoughts on a Brabus exhaust? Their 6.1 V8 is the best sounding V8 in the world, but second to the SL55 though

Could you ask them to make your E55 sound like the Brabus 6.1 Sportcoupe? I know you probably wouldnt want to, but if you did....

A sound pipe would be enough to enhance the V8 sound.
But I guess my wife would kill me instantly.

I already put too much money in my E55 and I don't want to spend much more on it because for me, it is more like an "intermediate" solution for the next 2-3 years.

I have only two other things on my wish list: the 19'' wheels (which are way too expensive because some body work is needed too) and the rumored bigger brake (wich unfortunately requires the 19'' wheels

).
But if I really think about it: I have the 300 kph limit, the enhanced gearbox ECU unit and the 30% limited slip differential on my car, I'm not sure I really need something more.

Check the web address www.997turbo.com and you'll understand.

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Oct 28, 2003 9:58:45 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Bilal

Re: RS6

Quote:
RC, any thoughts on a Brabus exhaust? Their 6.1 V8 is the best sounding V8 in the world, but second to the SL55 though

Could you ask them to make your E55 sound like the Brabus 6.1 Sportcoupe? I know you probably wouldnt want to, but if you did....

A sound pipe would be enough to enhance the V8 sound.
But I guess my wife would kill me instantly.

I already put too much money in my E55 and I don't want to spend much more on it because for me, it is more like an "intermediate" solution for the next 2-3 years.

I have only two other things on my wish list: the 19'' wheels (which are way too expensive because some body work is needed too) and the rumored bigger brake (wich unfortunately requires the 19'' wheels

).
But if I really think about it: I have the 300 kph limit, the enhanced gearbox ECU unit and the 30% limited slip differential on my car, I'm not sure I really need something more.

Check the web address www.997turbo.com and you'll understand.

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