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Re: Is the Boxster held back?
Quote:
luko said:
Given that;s there's much talk of the Cayman being held back because of the 911, surely then the Boxster has been held back? Can anyone give details?
Yes. Of course the entire Boxster range (which like it or not includes the Cayman) has been held back. The main problem is that when the 997 was introduced it was given insufficient power lift over the outgoing 996. If the base 997 had been given 340-350bhp, and the S 380-400bhp, this would have given much more scope for Boxster and Cayman. Then the Cayman that should have been would have been, say using the current 997 (non S) 325bhp 3.6 engine. Imagine what the Cayman would have been like then, with a bit more weight saving, fine tuning in its own right (much like the M3 CSL) and even more agility than the Boxster S! The Cayman would then quite rightly taken its place as the performance flagship of the Boxster family, not just a mildly tweaked fixed head coupe alternative. Then the Boxster S could have had the engine now in the Cayman. I still think that Porsche will only accept the Boxster as a poor relation which I don't feel is necessary. Different cars, different buyers. Do BMW buyers stop buying the 6 series coupe because the M3 is quicker? Do Mercedes customers stop buying the 350/500SL because the SLK55 AMG is faster?
Re: Is the Boxster held back?
Quote:
dreamcar said:Quote:
luko said:
Given that;s there's much talk of the Cayman being held back because of the 911, surely then the Boxster has been held back? Can anyone give details?
Yes. Of course the entire Boxster range (which like it or not includes the Cayman) has been held back. The main problem is that when the 997 was introduced it was given insufficient power lift over the outgoing 996. If the base 997 had been given 340-350bhp, and the S 380-400bhp, this would have given much more scope for Boxster and Cayman. Then the Cayman that should have been would have been, say using the current 997 (non S) 325bhp 3.6 engine. Imagine what the Cayman would have been like then, with a bit more weight saving, fine tuning in its own right (much like the M3 CSL) and even more agility than the Boxster S! The Cayman would then quite rightly taken its place as the performance flagship of the Boxster family, not just a mildly tweaked fixed head coupe alternative. Then the Boxster S could have had the engine now in the Cayman. I still think that Porsche will only accept the Boxster as a poor relation which I don't feel is necessary. Different cars, different buyers. Do BMW buyers stop buying the 6 series coupe because the M3 is quicker? Do Mercedes customers stop buying the 350/500SL because the SLK55 AMG is faster?
Good observation on the BMW and Mercedes situation.....
Dec 7, 2005 10:06:51 PM
- LowPolarMoment
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Re: Is the Boxster held back?
I don't think that's a good analogy Dreamcar. A Carrera is a high performance sports car and, with a little more power, the Cayman would be too. They'd appeal to the same buyers. The SLK55 is a high performance GT. The SL500 is not. People don't buy an SL500 for 0-60 time while people do buy an SLK55 for that reason. They don't appeal to the same buyer. Same for the BMW's.
Re: Is the Boxster held back?
Quote:
luko said:
Given that;s there's much talk of the Cayman being held back because of the 911, surely then the Boxster has been held back? Can anyone give details?
The virus has spread...
Of course Porsche could make a little Carrera GT out of the Boxster, no doubt about it. But at the same time, they could make the hell of a car (not that it isn't already
) out of the 911. The whole thing is a marketing decision and it is about production cost too of course. Right now, I'd say that Porsche is one of the (if not the) most profitable car manufacturers in the world. They make huge profit on their models because they really don't use the full potential, at the same time asking a premium price.I still think that this strategy is wrong on a longterm run but I keep saying this for the past few years and buyers have proven to me that I was wrong. Unfortunately a lot of people are buying new Porsche models based on myth (to use one of Doc Phil's favorite words
), gossip, salesman talk, magazine reviews, wishful thinking and of course based on what they read in various car forums on the internet. Only a few buy the cars based on facts, rational thinking and testdrives. I mean look at the new Cayman S or even at the new 997 Turbo. 99% of potential customers didn't even see the car live and a lot of them already signed a contract or put down a deposit for a spot.Yes, unfortunately the whole model range is based on marketing strategy. But I don't think this is something specific to Porsche only, all car manufacturers with a little brains do the same.
Best examples are BMW and Mercedes: to attract customers, they had to offer more power in their limousines/coupes than the "classic" sportscar manufacturers Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche in their "traditional" models.
And still: look at the SLK55 AMG for example. Although it is a powerful car and the engine sounds great, it didn't really hurt 987 S sales. Power isn't everything but I'd still wish Porsche would reconsider. Just check out various internet forums or even gossip talk among your friends and relatives, most people actually love to make jokes about the "low" power of the Boxster and even 911 models.
I still think that a powerful Boxster would not really hurt 911 sales since we're looking at two different types of customers. And if Porsche is that afraid of hurting 911 sales, they could just add a little bit more juice to their 911 line, making a bigger distinction.
I'm afraid I'm just loosing my time "praying" this, Porsche marketing has other things in mind. I just hope, for my own sake
, that they don't apply the same strategy to their "top models". I always was very tempted by the Lamborghini Murcielago...VERY tempted.
Re: Is the Boxster held back?
Is there a way we can fight back?? 
example, for TT: Sign a contract w/ the dealer and pay the deposit, on ground that the new TT will punch out greater than or at least equal to 500ps. Otherwise the contract will terminate and they refund your deposit back.
I do doubt though, that the dealership will allow such speculation clause in the contract.
just a dream....just a dream
example, for TT: Sign a contract w/ the dealer and pay the deposit, on ground that the new TT will punch out greater than or at least equal to 500ps. Otherwise the contract will terminate and they refund your deposit back.
I do doubt though, that the dealership will allow such speculation clause in the contract.
just a dream....just a dream
Re: Is the Boxster held back?
A simple chip would get the 987S to 300bhp or more - and thats just a bit of electronic trickery. Without mechanical restrictions it should make 320bhp , afterall 100bhp per litre i nothing spectacular these days.
Saw a 986 2.7 make 246bhp on a recent dyno day - not bad for 228bhp factory spec, and 986S were making 251-255bhp so no faults on the dyno
Saw a 986 2.7 make 246bhp on a recent dyno day - not bad for 228bhp factory spec, and 986S were making 251-255bhp so no faults on the dyno
Dec 9, 2005 9:39:20 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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RC
Re: Is the Boxster held back?
Since it's clear that Porsche is driven by marketing forces within the company than anything else; it makes me wonder why they don't offer their products the same way as BMW and MB does. MB has AMG in pretty much every model line so does BMW M model and AUDI their S & RS models.
Why not offering powerful engines for Boxster and Cayman line? We all know 911 line won't be in the danger of losing faithful customers but why not more power for the other lines.
I know people that can afford 911 but opt for a boxster or Cayman but why not make the others more powerful.
I have never seen any AMG owners to say my CLK55 beats E55 or my M3 beats M5 or vise versa.
Why not offering powerful engines for Boxster and Cayman line? We all know 911 line won't be in the danger of losing faithful customers but why not more power for the other lines.
I know people that can afford 911 but opt for a boxster or Cayman but why not make the others more powerful.
I have never seen any AMG owners to say my CLK55 beats E55 or my M3 beats M5 or vise versa.
Dec 9, 2005 11:58:29 PM
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Turbo Al
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: Is the Boxster held back?
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Since it's clear that Porsche is driven by marketing forces within the company than anything else; it makes me wonder why they don't offer their products the same way as BMW and MB does. MB has AMG in pretty much every model line so does BMW M model and AUDI their S & RS models.
Why not offering powerful engines for Boxster and Cayman line? We all know 911 line won't be in the danger of losing faithful customers but why not more power for the other lines.
I know people that can afford 911 but opt for a boxster or Cayman but why not make the others more powerful.
I have never seen any AMG owners to say my CLK55 beats E55 or my M3 beats M5 or vise versa.
It would be cool if there were a Porsche-owned "WeissachSport" tuning program, in which, for a premium, P buyers could have performance upgrades on their factory models. Examples could include for the 997TT/TTS, "600HP/600Nm TT-Plus" and "700HP/700Nm TT-Mach Schnell"
packages-sure it would be QUITE pricey, but with a modicum of warranty coverage and a disincentive for P owners to aftermarket their cars, I bet QUITE profitable-and lots of fun. 
Dec 10, 2005 12:09:24 AM
- LowPolarMoment
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Re: Is the Boxster held back?
I think the reason is simple. AMG Benzoids and M class Beemers do not steal many sales away from S500's and 750's. Most S500 buyers wouldn't want an E55. On the other hand, if Porsche offered a 355hp Cayman or a 325hp Boxster, it would probably put a big dent in 911 sales and the 911 is their profit leader.
Dec 10, 2005 12:34:28 AM
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Ron (Houston)
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Dec 10, 2005 3:36:10 AM
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Turbo Al
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Re: Is the Boxster held back?
Quote:
LowPolarMoment said:
I think the reason is simple. AMG Benzoids and M class Beemers do not steal many sales away from S500's and 750's. Most S500 buyers wouldn't want an E55. On the other hand, if Porsche offered a 355hp Cayman or a 325hp Boxster, it would probably put a big dent in 911 sales and the 911 is their profit leader.
True, although they could probably market the cars "safely" by pricing the upgrades well above entry-level offerings, so a 400HP CaymanTT at $140K wouldn't "compete" with a 911NA, and a 600-700HP 911Turbo at >$200K, while below the CGT's MSRP, could be their true "flagship" vehicle since the CGT is limited-production anyhow. But of course, this is all unlikely to happen. . . .
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