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    C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Yesterday I stopped by my dealer to look at the new Cayman S and happened to talk to one of the cool sales guys that I know well.

    I noticed that they still have the C4 and C4S launch cars in the show room with big red bows on them, asked him how they're doing? he said as you can tell we still have the launch cars here and can't move them.

    He went on as to explaining that there is no styling deferentiation between the C2 and C4 models(997); people used to buy the old model (996 C4S) because it looked different from the standard C2 however with the 997 C4 you can't hardly tell the difference except if you really have keen eyes to see the 1" wider rear view Vs. the C2.

    He continued: In southern states people hardley care about the 4 wheel drive, so they all are after styling differences within the 911 models and when people see there is not really any major visual styling differences between the 2 models they buy the cheaper one C2 or C2S and save themselves some money.

    Now my question is if anyone feels the same regarding Mr. X point?

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    AUTO SPIES EXCLUSIVE: What's wrong with the new Carrera 4 and C4S?

    12/1/2005

    Dealers are reporting to the Spies that the launch of the Carrera 4 and C4S is not going as well as thought.

    One large west coast dealer who requested anonymity said the reaction by customers has been lukewarm at best.

    All Porsche dealers received one 4 and one 4S for the launch (Silver/Black 4, Black/Tan 4S).

    Based on a survey of over thirty dealers around the country this week, most retailers have yet to sell either unit.

    If you go to Porsche.com and search dealers inventories, you'll also notice they still have the launch units for sale.

    So what's the problem?

    Are they bad cars?

    Not in the least.

    The new C4S is spectacular in our opinion.

    We think the problem is that most people who bought the previous generation C4S bought it because of the wide aggressive looking body compared to the 996 C2 and not the AWD capabilities.

    You could really tell the difference between the two models.
    ..................................................................................................................

    Would be nice if they made the 997TT even wider



    This is what a dealer in Miami is sitting on

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    The afformentioned dealer inventory.

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Maybe I should pay my dealer a visit. I will take a C4S if he takes my C2 Cab and I don't lose money. Seriously the cars are hard to tell apart unless you are a hardcore Porsche fan (like most of us). I for one would love to have a C4 or C4S but am quite happy with my C2 Cab. I'm sure the dealers will be fine, just give the a little more time.

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Quote:
    bstew said:
    Maybe I should pay my dealer a visit. I will take a C4S if he takes my C2 Cab and I don't lose money. Seriously the cars are hard to tell apart unless you are a hardcore Porsche fan (like most of us). I for one would love to have a C4 or C4S but am quite happy with my C2 Cab. I'm sure the dealers will be fine, just give the a little more time.


    That's my plan too

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    After having seen the first 4s overhere I must agree that I had to look twice before recognizing - wheras I admire particularly the 996 4s back vents behind the wheels.I would love to see a 997S with the new TT-body and the more bumper-integrated exhaust pipes as posted on some 997TT spypictures

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    In germany the 4S models are sold out for the next 6 months. I spoke with a dealer in duesseldorf and he told me, that the 4s
    models are running very good, better then expected.

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    The difference is subtle, but it is there, depending on the angle, it is more obvious.
    Choosing the C4S for me was not about the look but about the ( eventual)need of the AWD!!!
    Here in Switzerland, the C4/S sell much better then the C2 because of our winters...

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    I think the difference is noticable... there's a big "4" on the deck lid of the C4 & C4S.

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Sad but true I persoanlly bought a 996C4S because it looked like the Turbo and could care less about the 4 wheel drive. But I bought the C2S and not the C4S as they are exactly the same. The C4S a little wider and C2S a little faster. So why bother spend another $5K if you do not need the 4 wheel drive.

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    I just put my order in for my 997 C4S today. I would have bought a C4S and maybe even a C4 from dealer stock or dealer trade, but who in the hell decided to put out hundreds of the same cookie cutter cars???? Even if i wanted a Black/Sand Beige coupe, I would NOT have jumped on one of the couple hundred EXACTLY THE SAME cars. Normally Porsche is so big on us buying extras to make your car your special sorta one of a kind car with all kind of hundreds of dollars pieces of stainless steel interior trim and $550 dollars red or yellow seat belts, but I did not want the SAME C4S that the guy in Dallas, Chicago, Miami, and New York bought. Why didn't they put out a mix of a few of this and a few of that. Yes Black and Siver are big colors in sales, but I did not want those colors. Why wouldn't you look over a data base of what sold last year and mix up a few loaded up C4Ss Put out coupes between $95-115K and mix them up. Yes, dealers will have to trade around abit, but now they are ALL sitting on the same, EXACTLY the same cars and the law of supply and demand is now in the hands of the buyer. The C4 displays kit just got to the dealer yesterday and the cars have been there for a couple of weeks!! Stupid. In this day of computers and data bases I would be able to predict what zip codes buy more black, where white is in, who goes for navigation, and the ratio of cabs to coupes in downtown Chicago. Even Walmart can predict pop tart sales and hurricaines! Now Porsche cannot say the first introduction cars went like hot cakes. If I am going to drop $100K I look around for what I want or order what I want. Did they really think we would not be insulted by introducing a few mass produced cookies? I will have my oatmeal cookies with M&M's and Macadamian Nuts....and make them warm with milk on the side if you please!!!

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Hi Stork,

    Welcome to rennteam.

    I have to agree with you. Porsche has the ability to make a nearly infinite variety of cars, and saturating the market with a hundred copies of identical cars isn't really sensible. I am sure that the cars identical spec makes it easier to produce them and create training materials for their salespeople, but at the very least they could have created 3 or 4 different color combos for each vehicle so there would be some choice.

    mcdelaug

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Cold-weather markets... AWD.


    Warm-weather markets... RWD.



    now that was simple, wasn't it??

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Quote:
    igzaklee said:
    Cold-weather markets... AWD.


    Warm-weather markets... RWD.



    now that was simple, wasn't it??


    I live in a colder climate (some of the year) and I'd never buy an AWD sports car...

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    I'd buy a C4S 997 Coupe for just its improved handling.

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Stork, I can tell you the dealers sure aren't happy about it either. I was at my local dealer in Dallas last night and they say it's going to take them forever to sell the half-dozen identical black/sand C4S they have in the lot. It also gives the incorrect impression to buyers that C4's are "just sitting around" and don't have much demand. A little historical sales and demographic analysis would have been much smarter.

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    I have had RWD and AWDin the past. The issue really is not snow as a 911 works fine C2 or C4 inthe snow if you have proper tires for snow. Summer tires do not work well in the snow even if you have AWD. Hey Grant you said never to AWD, but does that mean you would say NO to a turbo?

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Quote:
    MattTheCarNut said:
    I'd buy a C4S 997 Coupe for just its improved handling.



    I second that. I would love a C4S Cab just for the fun of it.

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Quote:
    stork said:
    I have had RWD and AWDin the past. The issue really is not snow as a 911 works fine C2 or C4 inthe snow if you have proper tires for snow. Summer tires do not work well in the snow even if you have AWD. Hey Grant you said never to AWD, but does that mean you would say NO to a turbo?



    Grant might go for a Turbo. . .as a GT2 (RWD), but we can let him respond. For me, as for others-fretting over the 911Turbo being UNDERpowered, it makes no sense to purchase a C4/4S over a C2/2S, unless one doesn't care about power and performance-in which case, why buy a 911 in the first place? Obviously, several factors are at work in the C4's not moving out of dealers' showrooms, but if a C2/2S is already a wide-enough-body, and the C4/4S is a hair slower than the C2/2S, couple that with recent muting of the $100K-USD sports car market, and. . . .

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    I'd have to agree about the difference between C2 and C4 variants being subtle. The launch cars came on the same transport that carried my Club Coupe, and while I could sort of tell the C4's are wider, a de-badged one in isolation (e.g., not next to a 997 C2) would be hard to pick out.

    Odd thing though--before the 996 C4 went wide body in 02, visually the C4's were the same as the C2's except the Carrera badge and brake calipers were "titanium colored" on the C4's.

    Salespersons I talked to said they'd sell tons of the narrow body C4's in Texas because customers came in and want the top of the line (there was no 996 Turbo back then).

    See, Porsche never should have released wide body C4 S's with the turbo "wannbe" styling (which I always hated--but I owned a 996 Turbo, and there's nothing like the "real thing")

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    I would buy C4s and C4Ss if they were a bit cheaper than current.

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Now that I own a C4 I think I can tell one from a C2 anytime, anyplace, anyday. Both are beautiful, I love the wider hips on the 4s.

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Quote:
    Alibaba said:
    In germany the 4S models are sold out for the next 6 months. I spoke with a dealer in duesseldorf and he told me, that the 4s
    models are running very good, better then expected.



    My (small) dealer over here in Germany has a 997 Carrera 4, Carrera 4 S Cab and a Carrera 4 Cab available, brandnew for immediate delivery and also spots for a Feb. and Apr. 2006 delivery to specs. I'm not sure the C4/S sells that well over here, especially since we have winter time and people should order more 4WD cars.

    I also think that the optical difference between the C2 and C4 isn't what people expected but on the other hand, I think that this is exactly what Porsche wanted. They wanted to create a bigger optical difference between the C2/C4 and the Turbo and GT3 models. One reason why the GT3 doesn't only look like a 997 C2 with aerokit but also seems to get a different rear bumper with twin exhaust pipes in the middle of it. I don't know if this really is part of a certain marketing strategy but I heard some criticsm in the past that the 996 Carrera 4S was looking too much like the 996 Turbo, making some customers to go for the cheaper model. Again: this is just a speculation.

    I would have used a completely different strategy for making a difference: engine power.
    997 Carrera 4: 340 HP
    997 Carrera 4S: 370 HP (powerkit with 395 HP instead of 381 HP). And of course both models with a slightly different front bumper. The rear could have been changed with a different design of the retractable wing (like they did with the 993 Carrera 2 S).

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    ...I would have used a completely different strategy for making a difference: engine power.
    997 Carrera 4: 340 HP
    997 Carrera 4S: 370 HP (powerkit with 395 HP instead of 381 HP). And of course both models with a slightly different front bumper. The rear could have been changed with a different design of the retractable wing (like they did with the 993 Carrera 2 S).



    Message to PAG Product Division: Get RC on the payroll, mach schnell !

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    I live in Miami and while it is a southern state, when it rains, it pours. We have a fairly long rainy season and then an unpredictable hurricane wet season. I have finally decided to buy a Carrera and can't decide which one; C2 or C4? In addition to the weather I have never owned a sports car let alone a RWD. I'm concerned that without the added control of the AWD I might put myself, and occasionally my children, at an unnecessary risk. The salesperson wasn't very helpfull as he played on my insecurities like a cheap insurance pitch, "How will you feel about not getting AWD that one day that you accidently spin out of control with your daughter in the car." I see alot of C4S here in Miami but I suspect it's because people here just want the "best" and typically the more expensive, the "better". As real owners and enthusiasts what do you guys suggest is best for wet weather?

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Hehe... I lived in Miami for 4 years, and I cannot fathom how your decison would be based soley on rain! The worst weather is in the summer - when each day, it does indeed rain like crazy - for 15 minutes. 1 hour later, it's bone dry - like it never happened.....until of course the next day. Talk about Ground Hog day! The rest of the year it's pretty timid and typically pretty darn nice.

    Why don't you take them both for a spin and see which one feels better for you. Personally, I prefer a) the handling b) the wider butt on the c4.

    Base your decision on that, not what some sleazy salesman tells you!

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Thanks mish. I actually did drive them both. The C4 felt tight and purposeful. The C2 was looser but wasn't swerving all over the place. I can't imagine that I'm going to throw the car all over the place taking curves at top speeds. How did you come to prefer the "handling" of the C4 if you don't mind me asking?

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Quote:
    carreraman said:
    Thanks mish. I actually did drive them both. The C4 felt tight and purposeful. The C2 was looser but wasn't swerving all over the place. I can't imagine that I'm going to throw the car all over the place taking curves at top speeds. How did you come to prefer the "handling" of the C4 if you don't mind me asking?




    Carreraman, I found that the c4s just felt tighter on the road and especially on the curves - almost like a magic glue was stuck to the tires!

    The steering was definitely stiffer on the C4 - but peronally, I prefer that. At the end of the day, go for which one feels more pleasing for you. I think that's how you should make your final decision! Let us know how it goes and good luck!

    p.s are you looking at the Cabs? They are so much fun in a place like Miami!

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    Quote:
    carreraman said:
    I live in Miami and while it is a southern state, when it rains, it pours. We have a fairly long rainy season and then an unpredictable hurricane wet season. I have finally decided to buy a Carrera and can't decide which one; C2 or C4? In addition to the weather I have never owned a sports car let alone a RWD. I'm concerned that without the added control of the AWD I might put myself, and occasionally my children, at an unnecessary risk. The salesperson wasn't very helpfull as he played on my insecurities like a cheap insurance pitch, "How will you feel about not getting AWD that one day that you accidently spin out of control with your daughter in the car." I see alot of C4S here in Miami but I suspect it's because people here just want the "best" and typically the more expensive, the "better". As real owners and enthusiasts what do you guys suggest is best for wet weather?



    I live in Ocala. There's no comparing a wet road with an icy or snowy road, period. Driving a 2WD 911 in the wet is no more dangerous or slippery than driving an AWD 911 in the wet, unless you're dipping HEAVY into the throttle. Now, why on earth would you be doing that, in the rain, with your kids on-board? I'd get a C2S, save the money, and when it rains, just drive normal, don't pretend to be on the last lap of LeMans.

    If I lived in a snowy/icy climate, well, I'd drive my flippin 4-wheel-drive truck through the winter and spare my 911 from the salt and horrid mess that winter roads contaminate a car with, inside and out. But if I were compelled to drive a 911 through the winter up north, C4S would be the only way to fly.

    Re: C4 & C4S Delima ?

    MmmmmmmmH! It is really sad, but obviously true, that many who buy the Carrera do not REALY understand or love cars and how they drive. Oh well ----- At least the Carrera is not in the category of the Bimmer 300, where very very few get it at all----

    KiwiCanuck

     
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