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Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
The Hawk said:
http://1320drag.com/online/showthread.php?p=1908
This is BS. Look at the numbers published, they used the numbers they found on the internet and in various publications (incl. web forums) to their liking.
They use the OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED test figure of the 997 Carrera S (8:05, driven by Sport Auto editor-in-chief Horst v. Saurma) and then some weird numbers taken from various sources, especially regarding specific cars.
The BMW M5 (E60) has been tested by Sport Auto and with the same driver Horst v. Saurma at 8:13. Period. All other test results are BS because they were never confirmed by independent sources. During the M5 test, BMW employees were with Sport Auto at the location, so the test results are valid. Same for the 997 Carrera S.
But funny enough, owners and fans always want to believe want they WANT to believe. And the internet and especially internet forums and blogs provide a lot of false or "half" bread information to support these desires. Look at our Cayman forum and you'll understand. This is human nature and good marketing.
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
The Hawk said:
http://1320drag.com/online/showthread.php?p=1908
This is BS. Look at the numbers published, they used the numbers they found on the internet and in various publications (incl. web forums) to their liking.
They use the OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED test figure of the 997 Carrera S (8:05, driven by Sport Auto editor-in-chief Horst v. Saurma) and then some weird numbers taken from various sources, especially regarding specific cars.
The BMW M5 (E60) has been tested by Sport Auto and with the same driver Horst v. Saurma at 8:13. Period. All other test results are BS because they were never confirmed by independent sources. During the M5 test, BMW employees were with Sport Auto at the location, so the test results are valid. Same for the 997 Carrera S.
But funny enough, owners and fans always want to believe want they WANT to believe. And the internet and especially internet forums and blogs provide a lot of false or "half" bread information to support these desires. Look at our Cayman forum and you'll understand. This is human nature and good marketing.
Does anyone have an official list showing lap times that are 100% accurate? There are too many false numbers out there.
It could be similar to the list by Top Gear.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps/
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
vinnie said:Quote:
RC said:Quote:
The Hawk said:
http://1320drag.com/online/showthread.php?p=1908
This is BS. Look at the numbers published, they used the numbers they found on the internet and in various publications (incl. web forums) to their liking.
They use the OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED test figure of the 997 Carrera S (8:05, driven by Sport Auto editor-in-chief Horst v. Saurma) and then some weird numbers taken from various sources, especially regarding specific cars.
The BMW M5 (E60) has been tested by Sport Auto and with the same driver Horst v. Saurma at 8:13. Period. All other test results are BS because they were never confirmed by independent sources. During the M5 test, BMW employees were with Sport Auto at the location, so the test results are valid. Same for the 997 Carrera S.
But funny enough, owners and fans always want to believe want they WANT to believe. And the internet and especially internet forums and blogs provide a lot of false or "half" bread information to support these desires. Look at our Cayman forum and you'll understand. This is human nature and good marketing.
Does anyone have an official list showing lap times that are 100% accurate? There are too many false numbers out there.
It could be similar to the list by Top Gear.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps/
You can use the numbers published on www.track-challenge.com.
Based on my experience the numbers published there are identical to the sportauto supertest results in close to 100% of all cases included.
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
vinnie said:Quote:
RC said:Quote:
The Hawk said:
http://1320drag.com/online/showthread.php?p=1908
This is BS. Look at the numbers published, they used the numbers they found on the internet and in various publications (incl. web forums) to their liking.
They use the OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED test figure of the 997 Carrera S (8:05, driven by Sport Auto editor-in-chief Horst v. Saurma) and then some weird numbers taken from various sources, especially regarding specific cars.
The BMW M5 (E60) has been tested by Sport Auto and with the same driver Horst v. Saurma at 8:13. Period. All other test results are BS because they were never confirmed by independent sources. During the M5 test, BMW employees were with Sport Auto at the location, so the test results are valid. Same for the 997 Carrera S.
But funny enough, owners and fans always want to believe want they WANT to believe. And the internet and especially internet forums and blogs provide a lot of false or "half" bread information to support these desires. Look at our Cayman forum and you'll understand. This is human nature and good marketing.
Does anyone have an official list showing lap times that are 100% accurate? There are too many false numbers out there.
It could be similar to the list by Top Gear.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps/
Porsche 911 GT3 - 1.27.2
Porsche Cayman - 1.26.2
Nov 26, 2005 10:13:57 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
ocnatv said:
Wow. So much for the 997s being faster than the new m5...
These non-official lap times that seem to be flourishing in order to attrack publicity is really getting annoying. Some people can't tell the difference between a lap done by Saurma in the Sport Auto Supertest and a obscure lap time rigged for whatever purpose... you can't mix them up guys
Compare only the ones you know were done with a car un full factory delivery specs, full lap of the ring, same driver, etc... i.e. Sport Auto
Nov 26, 2005 10:14:03 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Nov 26, 2005 10:55:02 AM
- brunner
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
These non-official lap times that seem to be flourishing in order to attrack publicity is really getting annoying.
Very True.
Seems like the marketing departments realised people on the net are much dumber than they previously thought, and are starting to exploit this.
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
brunner said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
These non-official lap times that seem to be flourishing in order to attrack publicity is really getting annoying.
Very True.
Seems like the marketing departments realised people on the net are much dumber than they previously thought, and are starting to exploit this.
GM was the first to use that new concept of marketing when they spread wrong NBR track times for the new Corvette.
Nov 26, 2005 12:40:33 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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MKSGR
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
actually GM copied Aston Martin who spread in preproduction that the AMV8 lapped the ring in 7:52 , whom in turn had copied BMW with their preproduction press release on the new M5 saying it laps the ring in "sub-8min" times, which was just a continuation of their preproduction press claim that the super dupper E46-M3CSL was going to lap the ring under 8min, which after several attempts and consecuent failures to produce such results, they ended fitting R-compound Pilot Sport Cup tires as standard and problem solved, while making the buyers sign a waiver saying that they understand the dangers of using such tires on the street
GM and the vette was only the last one to jump to this wagon with the Z06 in their attempt to gain some acceptance and image in European market (not happening)
Nov 26, 2005 1:17:48 PM
- vinnie
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
GM and the vette was only the last one to jump to this wagon with the Z06 in their attempt to gain some acceptance and image in European market (not happening)
Very interesting, I never knew that about the waiver for BMW M3 CSL.
I have read the tires fitted to this car can account for as much as a 2 second per lap improvement over the normal street but still high-performance tyres.
Nov 26, 2005 1:32:47 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Yes vinnie, and in the nurburgring, which is 8 miles long, you can imagine the advantage they can give for one single lap.
The Pilot Sport Cup are the grippiest of all R-compound street legal tires, more than the Pirelli Corsas, but a real menace in the wet or other slippery conditions you face in street driving, hence the waiver.
I shouldn't talk, I have the equivalent tire in my sportbike, the Pirelli Supercorsas, on a dry summer day they stick like crazy, they are unbelievable... but going out in the rain or very cold weather doesn't even cross my mind with these tires unless I have a death wish, but a Sportbike is not an everyday vehicle like a sportcoupe, so it makes more sense. I would never fit Cups on my everyday car... however this is just a personal choice/opinion.
The Pilot Sport Cup are the grippiest of all R-compound street legal tires, more than the Pirelli Corsas, but a real menace in the wet or other slippery conditions you face in street driving, hence the waiver.
I shouldn't talk, I have the equivalent tire in my sportbike, the Pirelli Supercorsas, on a dry summer day they stick like crazy, they are unbelievable... but going out in the rain or very cold weather doesn't even cross my mind with these tires unless I have a death wish, but a Sportbike is not an everyday vehicle like a sportcoupe, so it makes more sense. I would never fit Cups on my everyday car... however this is just a personal choice/opinion.
Nov 26, 2005 3:45:57 PM
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RC
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
ocnatv said:
Wow. So much for the 997s being faster than the new m5...
These non-official lap times that seem to be flourishing in order to attrack publicity is really getting annoying. Some people can't tell the difference between a lap done by Saurma in the Sport Auto Supertest and a obscure lap time rigged for whatever purpose... you can't mix them up guys
Compare only the ones you know were done with a car un full factory delivery specs, full lap of the ring, same driver, etc... i.e. Sport Auto
Right, Carlos. The internet is such a weird place, a lot of good comes out of it but even more bad things.
Since car forums are a pretty anonymous place where kids, adolescents and even adults with fake identities play around, you can never really trust claims made on such forums. And unfortunately there is very often a hidden agenda behind these claims, sometimes some dealers who want to make a sale, sometimes just some kids who want to provoke owners of other cars. That said, www.track-challenge.com is a very good place for VERIFIED test figures because these are actually the SPORT AUTO test figures. Unfortunately the authors of the great www.track-challenge.com site don't mention it and this is a little bit sad because people get the impression that the test data is based on the personal testing of the both authors of the Track Challenge site. They should be honest enough to mention SPORT AUTO as their source, it would add a lot of credibility to their website.
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Also, Track-challenge drivers are not as acclimated to their cars as company-test drivers. So, you're going to see slower times than Horst van Saurma and Walter Rorhl.
The point I'm making is that I'm not sure that these drivers have the time (not necessarily the capability) to fully delve into the capabilities of the cars they test... I dont see them mastering a dangerous CGT on the ring with the limited time they have to drive it.
The point I'm making is that I'm not sure that these drivers have the time (not necessarily the capability) to fully delve into the capabilities of the cars they test... I dont see them mastering a dangerous CGT on the ring with the limited time they have to drive it.
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
Hurst said:
Also, Track-challenge drivers are not as acclimated to their cars as company-test drivers. So, you're going to see slower times than Horst van Saurma and Walter Rorhl.
The point I'm making is that I'm not sure that these drivers have the time (not necessarily the capability) to fully delve into the capabilities of the cars they test... I dont see them mastering a dangerous CGT on the ring with the limited time they have to drive it.
Hmmmm.... RC has stated that track-challenge is using sportauto data. I.e. the track times published have all been achieved by Horst von Saurma and are thus comparable
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
Hurst said:
Also, Track-challenge drivers are not as acclimated to their cars as company-test drivers. So, you're going to see slower times than Horst van Saurma and Walter Rorhl.
The point I'm making is that I'm not sure that these drivers have the time (not necessarily the capability) to fully delve into the capabilities of the cars they test... I dont see them mastering a dangerous CGT on the ring with the limited time they have to drive it.
Oh boy, tough day for me today.
Again (R.E.A.D. my lips): Track Challenge is using SOLELY SPORT AUTO TEST DATA, nothing you read there regarding numbers and test figures have ever been achieved by somebody else than...SPORT AUTO. OK?!
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
The Hawk said:
http://1320drag.com/online/showthread.php?p=1908
This is BS. Look at the numbers published, they used the numbers they found on the internet and in various publications (incl. web forums) to their liking.
They use the OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED test figure of the 997 Carrera S (8:05, driven by Sport Auto editor-in-chief Horst v. Saurma) and then some weird numbers taken from various sources, especially regarding specific cars.
The BMW M5 (E60) has been tested by Sport Auto and with the same driver Horst v. Saurma at 8:13. Period. All other test results are BS because they were never confirmed by independent sources. During the M5 test, BMW employees were with Sport Auto at the location, so the test results are valid. Same for the 997 Carrera S.
But funny enough, owners and fans always want to believe want they WANT to believe. And the internet and especially internet forums and blogs provide a lot of false or "half" bread information to support these desires. Look at our Cayman forum and you'll understand. This is human nature and good marketing.
Let us assume that the numbers are inaccurate. Would they be off 10sec or 20sec? And if so, does that not put the M5 a sedan performance on par with the 997S?Do not underestimate the M5 because Autocar magazine found that the 430 could not surpass the M5 in performance.
If NBR numbers are important then the Z06 is the way to go. Carlos, RC I am may be able to get you a discount on a Z06.
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
RC said:Quote:
The Hawk said:
http://1320drag.com/online/showthread.php?p=1908
This is BS. Look at the numbers published, they used the numbers they found on the internet and in various publications (incl. web forums) to their liking.
They use the OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED test figure of the 997 Carrera S (8:05, driven by Sport Auto editor-in-chief Horst v. Saurma) and then some weird numbers taken from various sources, especially regarding specific cars.
The BMW M5 (E60) has been tested by Sport Auto and with the same driver Horst v. Saurma at 8:13. Period. All other test results are BS because they were never confirmed by independent sources. During the M5 test, BMW employees were with Sport Auto at the location, so the test results are valid. Same for the 997 Carrera S.
But funny enough, owners and fans always want to believe want they WANT to believe. And the internet and especially internet forums and blogs provide a lot of false or "half" bread information to support these desires. Look at our Cayman forum and you'll understand. This is human nature and good marketing.
Do not underestimate the M5 because Autocar magazine found that the 430 could not surpass the M5 in performance.
If NBR numbers are important then the Z06 is the way to go. Carlos, RC I am may be able to get you a discount on a Z06.
Nick, from what I remember Autocar's testing consisted of two blokes tossing cars around a country road, with no real scientific data and who knows how much actual experience with sports cars. That, to me, isn't reliable testing.
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
nberry said:
Do not underestimate the M5 because Autocar magazine found that the 430 could not surpass the M5 in performance.
If NBR numbers are important then the Z06 is the way to go. Carlos, RC I am may be able to get you a discount on a Z06.
You should focus on writing about Ferrari
My advice would be to test a M5 or M6. After having done that you would immediately see the huge difference to a 997s. And you would also understand why the 997s outperforms the M5 by roughly 10 seconds on the NBR despite 150hp less...
Also, the Z06 is NOT any benchmark at all. In particular not on the NBR.
GM only claims that the car is fast on the NBR. However, they also claim that for the C06. The C06, when tested by sportauto, failed to achieve the claimed GM time by about 20 seconds per lap!
Conclusion: GM is telling BS and some guys seem to believe in that BS...
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
Hurst said:
Also, Track-challenge drivers are not as acclimated to their cars as company-test drivers. So, you're going to see slower times than Horst van Saurma and Walter Rorhl.
The point I'm making is that I'm not sure that these drivers have the time (not necessarily the capability) to fully delve into the capabilities of the cars they test... I dont see them mastering a dangerous CGT on the ring with the limited time they have to drive it.
Oh boy, tough day for me today.
Again (R.E.A.D. my lips): Track Challenge is using SOLELY SPORT AUTO TEST DATA, nothing you read there regarding numbers and test figures have ever been achieved by somebody else than...SPORT AUTO. OK?!
First of all, chill out a bit.
Second of all, Sport Auto test has Horst Van Saurma 7'32.44 on the ring in the CGT. Track-challenge has 7'40. Same data? uhhhh....
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
Hurst said:
First of all, chill out a bit.
Second of all, Sport Auto test has Horst Van Saurma 7'32.44 on the ring in the CGT. Track-challenge has 7'40. Same data? uhhhh....
1. I don't want to chill out since I had enough people lately who want to tell me that black is white and white is black. Maybe I should just tell you: don't take everything that seriously, this is only about cars, dude.
2. ever heard of typos?!
If I say something I don't know 100% for sure, I call it a rumor or I use the word "maybe". Otherwise, I'm 40 years old, I have my own business and can take care of a family and I can afford three Porsche. Do you think somebody like me would be dillusional?! Amen.
Yes, I'm loosing a little bit of patience and I apologize if I sometimes sound rude. But again: this is all about cars, nothing else. I just don't have the time (and language skills) to talk through the flower. And finally, my favorite TV series are "Becker" (US) and "House M.D." (UK). Go figure.
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
Hurst said:Quote:
RC said:Quote:
Hurst said:
Also, Track-challenge drivers are not as acclimated to their cars as company-test drivers. So, you're going to see slower times than Horst van Saurma and Walter Rorhl.
The point I'm making is that I'm not sure that these drivers have the time (not necessarily the capability) to fully delve into the capabilities of the cars they test... I dont see them mastering a dangerous CGT on the ring with the limited time they have to drive it.
Oh boy, tough day for me today.
Again (R.E.A.D. my lips): Track Challenge is using SOLELY SPORT AUTO TEST DATA, nothing you read there regarding numbers and test figures have ever been achieved by somebody else than...SPORT AUTO. OK?!
First of all, chill out a bit.
Second of all, Sport Auto test has Horst Van Saurma 7'32.44 on the ring in the CGT. Track-challenge has 7'40. Same data? uhhhh....
I thought the 7:40 time was done in the rain.
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
Crash said:
I thought the 7:40 time was done in the rain.
The mystery has been solved: the 7:40 time has been done when the pavement was half wet and half dry. They repeated the test when the pavement was completely dry a few weeks later. SPORT AUTO took the new test result and changed their database, apparently Track Challenge forgot to adapt their publications.
And yes, I was wrong too: no typo. Track Challenge just forgot (or overlooked) the new result.
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
I saw this time for m5 on other board and the link that doesnt work on that webside that was provided here was working on the other site and it was linked to a Lemans V12 X5 and i belive thats the car that did 7.52, i doubt that M5 can do 7.52 where for example Z06 which weights 3150 driven by a proffesional driver which just raped the car did 7:42... So its just a missprint.
Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
Quote:
vladimir said:
I saw this time for m5 on other board and the link that doesnt work on that webside that was provided here was working on the other site and it was linked to a Lemans V12 X5 and i belive thats the car that did 7.52, i doubt that M5 can do 7.52 where for example Z06 which weights 3150 driven by a proffesional driver which just raped the car did 7:42... So its just a missprint.
The Z06 MAYBE did 7:42.9, as we don't have any means to confirm that result. Waiting patiently for Sport Auto to test the car.
Nov 29, 2005 8:31:24 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 7:52 --- 157.119 km/h - BMW M5 (E60)
The worked up X5 with the BMW LeMan's prototype engine did 7:49 in ring, so can't be that
Now just to show how ridiculous the 7:52 time for the M5 is... 7:52 is the exact same the lap time for the 500HP Gallardo, 570HP Murcielago and 617HP Merc-McLaren SLR picture a 500HP four-door 4000lbs saloon trying to follow them in the ring?
Now just to show how ridiculous the 7:52 time for the M5 is... 7:52 is the exact same the lap time for the 500HP Gallardo, 570HP Murcielago and 617HP Merc-McLaren SLR
picture a 500HP four-door 4000lbs saloon trying to follow them in the ring?
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