Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - It's a car for God's sake! - Page1

Nov 22, 2005 3:53:59 AM

jack49: Junior; Loc: Minnesota , United States; Posts: 69, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 31, 2005

Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

My car is here

Ordered in on my BD= 8/25 and got here on 11/18.

That's the good news. The other news is my pending decision to NOT store it during our Minnesota winters,,,,BUT,,,to drive the baby. Snow started two days ago. There is salt on the roads (those of you not used to winter driving on snow... they put sand and salt on the roads for the next three months).
My dealer tell me he has many Minnesota customers who drive their P cars all winter..... With 18" wheels and the real high tech snow tires. I have no issues with the snow. My first car years ago was a Karmann Ghia, which was great in the snow. It's the salt I don't like. He says, " not a big issue ". The metal is very well protected with dippping,,,etc. Wash it often. I have some old cars to drive in the winter if I go the storage route. My Miata is already stored (never drive a Miata in the winter !). My heart tells me to go for it...enjoy..
You snowbirds,,,what is your vote?
I'm in the countdown to have the snowtires/wheels put on my new toy

.
(lapis blue,sand full leather,CS coupe, BOSE,Carerra Classic wheels,heated seats/mirrors, lighted door sills, yes-I did have the dark wood on the wheel/shifter/glovebox(looks great), Sport,Nav, and so on )
Store it ,,,,or Drive it ?
jack49

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Nov 22, 2005 5:27:45 AM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

Drive a beater. Sneak out the 997S when the roads are salt free. That would pain me to drive in the salt and crap.

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Nov 22, 2005 12:07:23 PM

Tired: Co-Pilot; Loc: Michigan, USA; Posts: 160, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 2, 2005; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

nice to see another snow belter here, it was starting to look like almost everyone was from California. I asked that mine not be delivered until April (waiter) so I could avoid the snow. Best of luck, watch out for those who can't drive in the snow.

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Nov 22, 2005 12:23:14 PM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

I say go for it!
Porsche doesn't spend all winter up in northern Sweden winter testing their cars so that you can store it in a nice warm garage

Get some Porsche recommended winter tires, preferably on 18" and enjoy.

Here's a real trooper, who should be an example for everyone

The world's northernmost Porsche

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Nov 22, 2005 1:15:53 PM

Gaz: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, England; Posts: 246, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 4, 2004; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

Drive it - but watch out for the effect of the salt on your brake rotors! And don't leave the parking brake on overnight when the pads are damp and salty - it'll stick.

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Nov 22, 2005 1:16:26 PM

pic911s: Junior; Loc: canada; Posts: 145, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 2, 2005; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

In Toronto we have much the same issues as you. For the first year of my cars existance I'm going to store it. I just put away the car yesterday 2 inch styrofoam insulation on my garage floor, added the stabil, steel wool in my tail pipes, desicant (to remove moisture ) on the floor of the front seats, porshce car cover and battery maintainer trickle charger all hooked up.

I don't think I'd enjoy the car as much if I had to deal with all the snow. I really enjoy the twisties over high speed and that aspect of the vehicle can't be enjoyed safely around here. Plus if they didn't use the amount of salt on the roads I think i'd be able to deal with the dirtiness of it but I'll let my awd murano deal with the winter. I miss my car already.

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Nov 22, 2005 2:26:37 PM

jack49: Junior; Loc: Minnesota , United States; Posts: 69, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 31, 2005; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

OK,,, let's say I'm going for the snow/salt route. The mild weather folks have voted no,,,while the snow birds are split with their votes (albeit a slow voting turnout). I have good 18" Porsche wheels with sticky snow tires. The correct lighter oil. Heated seats/windows/mirrors. And, Porsche Roadside Assist.
Need advice on how often to wash,,tips...
I've got my old 325i with snow tires that I will use when the weather gets bad/snow is deep...Otherwise, the roads clear off in a couple days after snow fall. So, will need to wash undercarriage once a week...etc., I think.
On a recent trip to North Baltic area , I talked to several P car owners who drive them year round. I did not ask if they use a lot of salt on the roads. Or, how they wash the car???
Varrooommm... with some slush.
jack49

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Nov 22, 2005 2:47:35 PM

booger: Junior; Loc: Boston; Posts: 109, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 5, 2003; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

Unload the Miata,,,Store the P...,,,"""

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Nov 22, 2005 2:51:28 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: booger

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

Plain and simple why drive that car on icy roads. Afterall you drive a Porsche for it's performance and looks. You can't perform much when the surface is wet and slick the car does not look good with salt and mud on it, right??

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Nov 22, 2005 4:29:26 PM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: edz

It's a car for God's sake!

Did you buy it to look at it? Is it a Garage Queen? A Q-Tip Special? If you wanted art to look at you surely would have bought art, not a sports car.

Drive it regardless of the weather. And yes for those sunbelters the car is very happy being driven in the rain and snow, and a lot of fun too when you get the back out. Porsche even hold PDE courses inside the arctic circle for 911's and Boxsters so people can learn how to enjoy them in the snow and ice. I would argue that Porsche wouldn't do this if the cars were not capable.

The only exception is when the snow is deep and is going to rip off the front spoiler or cats. You can hose it down everytime you take it out and get rid of salt in the wheel arches and it's going to be just fine.

The only things you might consider are a 3M clear bra for the front of the car for sand and rock chips, and a set of winter wheels and tires from TireRack and you're all set.

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Nov 22, 2005 4:54:44 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14171, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: It's a car for God's sake!

I am getting mine at the end of this week ( hopefully) , snow is forcasted for the week end. I will be driving my car all winter ( unless it' srealy snowing hard and the roads have fresh snow). That's why I have a car...to drive it!!!! even if it is slowly, I will enjoy being in it.
Just wash it at least once a week, but not when temperatures are freezing because the water can damage the joints when they get frozen..

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Nov 22, 2005 5:58:28 PM

SonOfStig: Pilot; Loc: United Kingdom; Posts: 387, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2005; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: It's a car for God's sake!

I agree. In the UK on Sunday, I was heavily (and agonisingly - only my second day with the car) sprayed with salt by a gritting machine and the ClearBra came out without a scratch. From my all-of-4-days' experience, I reckon if you drive the car responsibly it should be fine.

SoS.

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Nov 22, 2005 6:24:45 PM

turbolite: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1012, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2004; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

I used my C4 in the Alps all the time! great fun, just go for it. the car's rust protection is more than good enough. just wash it a bt more often also from below

cheers

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Nov 22, 2005 6:27:48 PM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: It's a car for God's sake!

Drive it, that's what it's for, a little salt ain't gonna hurt it in the least. I drive mine 365/ snow/ rain whatever, track too, 41k and counting, zero problems.

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Nov 22, 2005 6:39:59 PM

///M5: Junior; Loc: CA; Posts: 71, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 20, 2005; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: It's a car for God's sake!

I lived in Minnesota for 12 years. In that time I have had 3 new cars. Short story - DON'T drive your P-car in the salt unless you want the thing to rot!!! The salt and sand will remain in the underbody of the car for it's lifetime. You can't wash everything out from under the car. Besides it will lose value. You won't notice the first year but after 3 years you'll see what I am talking about.

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Nov 22, 2005 7:21:43 PM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: ///M5

Re: It's a car for God's sake!

Quote:
///M5 said:
I lived in Minnesota for 12 years.
Which 12 years? Most cars in the last 20 years have galvanized steel bodies.

In that time I have had 3 new cars. Short story - DON'T drive your P-car in the salt unless you want the thing to rot!!!
It won't: it's galvanized. Check your warranty

The salt and sand will remain in the underbody of the car for it's lifetime.
It won't. With modern design cars those old fashioned traps have been eradicated or are covered in plastic.

You can't wash everything out from under the car. Besides it will lose value.
Surprisingly all cars lose value, with maybe the exceptions of L.E. Ferrari's

You won't notice the first year but after 3 years you'll see what I am talking about.

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Nov 22, 2005 7:23:09 PM

sergini: Veteran; Loc: Italy -Bologna , Italy; Posts: 1163, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 12, 2003; Reply to: ///M5

Re: It's a car for God's sake!

put a good set of winther tires ,for the first time don't use the sport mode ed enjoy your new girlfriend !
good luck ......

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Nov 22, 2005 8:31:50 PM

adelaide: Newbie; Loc: Canada; Posts: 19, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 4, 2005; Reply to: sergini

Re: It's a car for God's sake!

drive it. That's why you bought it.

if you plan to keep it *Forever* then you may consider not driving it, but hey, nothing is forever.

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Nov 22, 2005 10:09:40 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

Quote:
jack49 said:
My car is here Ordered in on my BD= 8/25 and got here on 11/18. That's the good news. The other news is my pending decision to NOT store it during our Minnesota winters,,,,BUT,,,to drive the baby. Snow started two days ago. There is salt on the roads (those of you not used to winter driving on snow... they put sand and salt on the roads for the next three months).
My dealer tell me he has many Minnesota customers who drive their P cars all winter..... With 18" wheels and the real high tech snow tires. I have no issues with the snow. My first car years ago was a Karmann Ghia, which was great in the snow. It's the salt I don't like. He says, " not a big issue ". The metal is very well protected with dippping,,,etc. Wash it often. I have some old cars to drive in the winter if I go the storage route. My Miata is already stored (never drive a Miata in the winter !). My heart tells me to go for it...enjoy..
You snowbirds,,,what is your vote?
I'm in the countdown to have the snowtires/wheels put on my new toy .
(lapis blue,sand full leather,CS coupe, BOSE,Carerra Classic wheels,heated seats/mirrors, lighted door sills, yes-I did have the dark wood on the wheel/shifter/glovebox(looks great), Sport,Nav, and so on )
Store it ,,,,or Drive it ?
jack49

If you plan to keep the car for 30 years, or want to sell it without a steep dropoff in value, then the more you drive it in the winter with snow (and therefore salt) on the roads, the less likely it is to retain its value or last for 30 years. Salt will interact with the metal and lead to corrosion, albeit it is true that with frequent cleaning and with the preventive corrosion protection applied at the factory that this effect is slowed/minimized-BUT not eliminated. I live in a salt- and sand-laden driving environment for up to six months (November to April) of the year, since I am on the lea side of Lake Ontario, and we get 100 inches of snow a season, much of it of the nickel-and-dime quantity, so the roads are salted regularly. And cars driven in the winter in Rochester rarely last ten years in good body condition.

If you plan to turn over your P frequently (like every couple years-as is the case with alot of us on rennteam

), and are willing to risk minor corrosion/minor consequent depreciation, and especially if you want to drive the car 24/7/52, then get a good winter tire package and hit the roads!

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Nov 23, 2005 12:53:06 AM

KiwiCanuck: Co-Pilot; Loc: Canada; Posts: 210, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 14, 2005; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

Yes ----- drive it. I drove my NSX for 7 years in winter ( weekends mainly as long as the roads were not too slushy ). Here (noon highs of -10C nights -20 for several months)the snow stays on the side roads and is 'removed' by the salt and sand on the main roads. So often the latter roads are clean and the others lovely for ice/packed snow driving. Ideal for Porsche's and NSXs. This obsession with salt and sand in Canada/US is actaully often ridiclous and leads to snow/ice residuals on the urban roads for days/weeks rather than it just blowing off. Life is too short and unpredictable to store a Porsche for 6months a year ---KiwiCanuck

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Nov 23, 2005 1:00:16 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: It's a car for God's sake!

Hey I know its a Porsche and all. Dirve the baby. I guess that is like people not driving their car in the rain.

Hey mine comes with wipers so I drive it. I'm sure the car will be OK. Just wash it and drive it.

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Nov 23, 2005 1:13:30 AM

Blk987S: Junior; Loc: California, USA; Posts: 54, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 15, 2005; Reply to: bstew

Re: It's a car for God's sake!

I have a solution. Move to San Diego where I live!

In all seriousness I think that you should drive your car and enjoy it year round. As others have said, the cars are tested in all weather conditions.

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Nov 23, 2005 1:21:18 AM

PbPedis: Junior; Loc: ON, Canada; Posts: 147, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 28, 2005; Reply to: bstew

Re: It's a car for God's sake!

No way I'm subjecting mine to all the salt, rocks, and other crap that ends up on the roads over winter. The actual down time is usually only about 4 months...put away mid November, start to drive a bit mid-late March, and out regularly in April. I can live with that. I'll keep it fully insured and will take it out for a weekend run if it's dry and sunny.

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Nov 23, 2005 1:59:17 PM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

Quote:
jack49 said:
... Snow started two days ago. There is salt on the roads (those of you not used to winter driving on snow... they put sand and salt on the roads for the next three months).
...

Your best bet is to make southern California your winter home. Its been in the 80s all week, perfect weather for your new car. Plus, where it does snow, California never ever believes in placing salt on the roads. Just a thought...

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Nov 23, 2005 2:17:36 PM

KG: Junior; Loc: Stockholm, Sweden; Posts: 70, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: vtrader

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

Drove my 996 C4 all year round. Porsche's galvanised body should handle the salt fine. A lot of p-cars are out on the roads all year round in Sweden. The main weakness is the tires, which are hard to find in 18'' with a compound that is of the softer type. Most avalable winter tires are "continental" (Europe, not brand) winter tires with a slightly harder compound and rated for 240km/h. That is fine for the occassional snow in Germany etc but if your gonna drive it on really icy and snowy surfaces (as in the northern part of Sweden where they don't even bother trying to use salt) they are far from confidence inspiring. Drive it, it's great fun on snow!!!

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Nov 23, 2005 10:35:21 PM

1Gunner: Junior; Loc: Down by the river in a van! , Canada; Posts: 76, Gallery; Registered on: May 10, 2004; Reply to: KG

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

jack49, you reeeeally should had ordered your car to arrive on or about your BD!! drive it for a couple months then store it away for the winter....
Mine went away 2 weeks ago. It's personal preference that I prefer to store my 997S, when I want/need to winter play and get my motorized adrenalin fix.... I go snowmobiling!!

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Nov 23, 2005 11:27:45 PM

TheOldMan: Co-Pilot; Loc: Montreal, Canada; Posts: 214, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 27, 2004; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

A 997 with Winter tires will do fine in the snow and ice. It is the salt and sand that will increase the occurance of maintenance, particularly brake and suspension parts.

911 owners that lease their cars typically will drive them during the winter months with only minor extra maintenance (brake cleaning and lubrication in the spring). Longer term, the suspension components take a real beating. If you ever look at a 911 on the lift you can see clearly the damage caused my salt and calcium on the underbody.
However, if it is leased, there is no issue as the car is going back to the leasing company before parts need to be changed.

Now if you buy the car and plan on keeping it for a long time, or want to maximize your re-sale value, keeping the car off the salty roads makes sense. In markets that use a lot of salt, buyers discount the value of a sports car that has been driven in the winter months.

In Montreal, the winters are severe enough that it makes no sense to drive a Porsche during the winter months, if you want to keep the car for a long time. Salt and sand are everywhere and it is impossible to keep a car clean.

But there are a lot of cities that have winter where you could probably drive it most winter days (Denver, DC, Vancouver, Chicago, even New York).

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Nov 24, 2005 1:48:59 AM

///M5: Junior; Loc: CA; Posts: 71, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 20, 2005; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: It's a car for God's sake!

Quote:
Le Chef said:
Quote:
///M5 said:
I lived in Minnesota for 12 years.
Which 12 years? Most cars in the last 20 years have galvanized steel bodies.

In that time I have had 3 new cars. Short story - DON'T drive your P-car in the salt unless you want the thing to rot!!!
It won't: it's galvanized. Check your warranty

The salt and sand will remain in the underbody of the car for it's lifetime.
It won't. With modern design cars those old fashioned traps have been eradicated or are covered in plastic.

You can't wash everything out from under the car. Besides it will lose value.
Surprisingly all cars lose value, with maybe the exceptions of L.E. Ferrari's

You won't notice the first year but after 3 years you'll see what I am talking about.

Are you kidding me? Have you lived in MN? There is more salt on the road than snow. Try enforcing your warranty.

Have you ever worked on a car from a salted region?

Value .. go look up the same car values in MN VS CA and tell me they are the same.

I don't need to go into details

You sound like a car dealer

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Nov 24, 2005 2:19:07 AM

Jim48: Senior; Loc: Virginia, USA; Posts: 639, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2005; Reply to: jack49

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

Quote:
jack49 said:
My car is here Ordered in on my BD= 8/25 and got here on 11/18. That's the good news. The other news is my pending decision to NOT store it during our Minnesota winters,,,,BUT,,,to drive the baby. Snow started two days ago. There is salt on the roads (those of you not used to winter driving on snow... they put sand and salt on the roads for the next three months).
My dealer tell me he has many Minnesota customers who drive their P cars all winter..... With 18" wheels and the real high tech snow tires. I have no issues with the snow. My first car years ago was a Karmann Ghia, which was great in the snow. It's the salt I don't like. He says, " not a big issue ". The metal is very well protected with dippping,,,etc. Wash it often. I have some old cars to drive in the winter if I go the storage route. My Miata is already stored (never drive a Miata in the winter !). My heart tells me to go for it...enjoy..
You snowbirds,,,what is your vote?
I'm in the countdown to have the snowtires/wheels put on my new toy .
(lapis blue,sand full leather,CS coupe, BOSE,Carerra Classic wheels,heated seats/mirrors, lighted door sills, yes-I did have the dark wood on the wheel/shifter/glovebox(looks great), Sport,Nav, and so on )
Store it ,,,,or Drive it ?
jack49

I was born and raised in similar "snow country," the Milwaukee area. The chemical laid down on the road was hell on most cars back then. Nowadays, I think that the rust protection is better. Doesn't Porsche have a 100,000 mile anti-rust warranty?

Warranty or not, when I get my 997S (which now appears to have been moved up to a delivery date of the first or second week of January from mid-February - I ordered it on 24 October), I'll drive it but keep it off the roads during and after snow storms. Virginia, where I now live, lays down loads of chemical during snow and ice storms, and you don't see the traces of it removed until the spring (major spring rains out here). Guess this means I'll be washing it a lot within a day or so of driving it, particularly during the winter months.

Jim

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Nov 24, 2005 2:45:07 AM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Jim48

Re: Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

Yes,

More sand and less salt is laid on the roads, and yes, pretreatment of the metals used on the chassis and other mechanicals all decrease the corrosion rate, but do NOT eliminate it entirely. It's simply a matter of how much corrosion one is willing to risk versus how much one wants to drive the car through the winter. I think I will go bonkers from now (we had our first significant snowfall in Rochester yesterday, and the roads have been salted up) until spring (which around here starts in April-or May-at the earliest

) if I don't drive my 996TSCab all winter. So if the roads and weather are clear, I'll likely take her out, especially on the weekend, and hose her off when I return home.

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Car Has Arrived ! Salt,,,,Tires,,,,, Help

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