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    Nov 21, 2005 5:36:02 AM

    bostonmini
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    powerkit vs S designation...

    Is it me or do others feel that Porsche needs to drop the 3.6 altogether now, and have a 3.8 carrera, and if they must use the "S" designation, put it on powerkit cars. The 3.6 is just not competitive anymore IMO, and this would also move the entire carrera line upmarket, away from the cayman, allowing it to get closer to full potential i.e. more power....ur thoughts?

    Nov 21, 2005 6:50:16 AM

    yarub1
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    Reply to: bostonmini

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    Exactly my thoughts Porsche should take a look at the competitors and understand that the game has moved on. For example, MB has the SLK AMG (I briefly considered it before purchasing my car) that has the same 997S level of performance at a lower price.

    Nov 21, 2005 8:44:55 AM

    NM
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    Reply to: yarub1

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    according to my porsche dealer this is the plan for the near future, prossibly in 2-3 yrs time.
    Whether i believe him or not is another matter.

    Nov 21, 2005 11:17:01 AM

    ALDOM
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    Reply to: bostonmini

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    Is it me or do others feel that Porsche needs to drop the 3.6 altogether now, and have a 3.8 carrera, and if they must use the "S" designation, put it on powerkit cars. The 3.6 is just not competitive anymore IMO, and this would also move the entire carrera line upmarket, away from the cayman, allowing it to get closer to full potential i.e. more power....ur thoughts?



    More horse power looks for sure nice. But on the other hand a 997 S beats the BMW M5 easily on a race circuit. With 152 hp less.

    When do you think the hp inflation will end? The next E 55 AMG will have 600 hp, the next M5 700 hp, ..... Does it make sense?

    AM

    Nov 21, 2005 11:35:32 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: ALDOM

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    Is it me or do others feel that Porsche needs to drop the 3.6 altogether now, and have a 3.8 carrera, and if they must use the "S" designation, put it on powerkit cars. The 3.6 is just not competitive anymore IMO, and this would also move the entire carrera line upmarket, away from the cayman, allowing it to get closer to full potential i.e. more power....ur thoughts?



    More horse power looks for sure nice. But on the other hand a 997 S beats the BMW M5 easily on a race circuit. With 152 hp less.

    When do you think the hp inflation will end? The next E 55 AMG will have 600 hp, the next M5 700 hp, ..... Does it make sense?

    AM



    The problem is that most driving takes place on normal roads, not the circuit. I saw an M5 today. Not as bad looking in navy blue and really friggin' fast. The 997S doesn't stand a chance.

    Nov 21, 2005 12:03:18 PM

    ALDOM
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    That's true.

    I have long time thought about buying a M5 then M6 and at the end ended up with a 997 4S with X51.

    M6 is even more sportier then a M5. But both cars are heavy weight GT. 997 is a real sports car. If you wish a sports car go for a 997 if you wish a fast GT go for the M6.

    AM

    I would loved a Porsche 997 like model (weight, brakes) with the room, gearbox and the engine of M6. This car has still to be developed.

    Nov 21, 2005 12:04:17 PM

    sevoman
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    Reply to: bostonmini

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    I agree wholeheartedly. I could not understand why they rehashed the 996 with an extra 5HP for the base Carrera.

    I think they could have put a better engine in the Cayman, made the Carrera with the 3.8 L engine and if they really wanted an S, added a standard powerkit.

    waddayathink

    Nov 21, 2005 12:08:29 PM

    mcdelaug
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    Reply to: sevoman

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    Quote:
    sevoman said:
    I agree wholeheartedly. I could not understand why they rehashed the 996 with an extra 5HP for the base Carrera.

    I think they could have put a better engine in the Cayman, made the Carrera with the 3.8 L engine and if they really wanted an S, added a standard powerkit.

    waddayathink



    Customers would love this, but Porsche would miss out on a lot of extra profit. Don't expect any real changes to the hp of the various NA 997 models until the mid model facelift in 2 years or so. It's the Porsche way.

    mcdelaug

    Nov 21, 2005 4:45:32 PM

    Paul S in TX
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    Reply to: mcdelaug

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    Quote:
    mcdelaug said:

    Customers would love this, but Porsche would miss out on a lot of extra profit. Don't expect any real changes to the hp of the various NA 997 models until the mid model facelift in 2 years or so. It's the Porsche way.

    mcdelaug



    Sadly so--there's a base, an S and an X51 S for profit motives and supposedly to keep demand for X51 from out stripping Porsche's production capacity to build those engines, especially in North America where X51 costs more than it does in the ROW.

    You can buy now and pay more, or buy toward the end of the 997 run and get most/all of this power as the "standard". Of course, then with the 998 on the horizon, you'll stress at its power in relation to the outgoing 997. Vicious cycle.

    Nov 21, 2005 6:14:49 PM

    The Groom
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    Reply to: Paul S in TX

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    Don't worry, a power increase is definitely in the cards. I'm afraid it won't be before the TT is out, though.

    Remember, the 993 got +13 HP, the 996 +20. Why would it be different with the 997?
    On the other hand, the same can be said of the Boxster, so the Cayman will get an upgraded engine as well.

    Nov 21, 2005 9:18:53 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: The Groom

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    Guys, I think the horse power war will end sooner or later. Afterall while I can see the acceleration coming handy, what would you do with a top speed of 200m.p.h. Yes it's all about the ego thing, your car is capable of whatever but realisticly when would you use all your h.p. after 120 m.p.h. Yes no matter what, having it is better than not having it. Just knowing there is a beast sleeping in your garage and you can unleash it's demonic powers with two feet and two hands, is worth all $$$$$ you can spend, at least to all of us car nuts. But I think soon enough the car manufacturers will hit a new ERA. I don't know what it will be and while H.P. will always be a factor it will no longer be the 1st priority in evaluating a car. Safety will probably get more focused on, high tech engines that are economicals and fast, electronics that can almost do what your wife can do for you, WELL ALMOST

    Nov 21, 2005 10:00:37 PM

    Deven
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    Reply to: The Groom

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    Its funny that I was thinking the exact same thing. It made no sense to me that they have the 'base' with the 3.6. The actual price difference between the base and S, subtracting the other 'goodies' that you get would be less than 5K. I think most potential buyers would not have noticed the 5K hike in price. The S would be the X51 then. I do not know if they have an inventory problem, ie, have a lot of 3.6 engines and therefore maybe they will 'phase out' the engine in the next 1-2 years and that is why they kept the base?

    Nov 21, 2005 10:13:25 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: Deven

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    Deven: I think that no matter what it's still a P-Car. Heck when I see a clean old Turbo with a 3.3 I still admire the car. I think all Porsche's have that pannache, even a Boxter is a gr8 driver, too small for me as I am 6'-2".
    If you want the H.P. so no one can kick your tush, you are wasting your time as someone is always faster. So there is a point where one should say okay I am happy here. If the 3.6 floats your boat, gr8 and if not go for the 3.8, either way you can not lose as you are following your passion

    Nov 21, 2005 10:37:47 PM

    Deven
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    Reply to: edz

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    Deven: I think that no matter what it's still a P-Car. Heck when I see a clean old Turbo with a 3.3 I still admire the car. I think all Porsche's have that pannache, even a Boxter is a gr8 driver, too small for me as I am 6'-2".
    If you want the H.P. so no one can kick your tush, you are wasting your time as someone is always faster. So there is a point where one should say okay I am happy here. If the 3.6 floats your boat, gr8 and if not go for the 3.8, either way you can not lose as you are following your passion



    I absoultely agree. However I am just thinking from a practical stand point. A Car manufacturer of Porsches size (very small) have so many engines (in the last 8 years, they have had the 2.5, 2.7, 3.2, 3.4, 3.6, and now 3.8 (maybe there are more that I have missed?). I sense that efficinecy in service, maintanence, diagniosis of problems (ex RMS issues), etc, would be much easier, cheaper if they only had 1 or 2 engines. Look at Japanese car manufactures, they only have 2-3 engines for the entire product lines and I suspect that is one of the main resons why reliability is so high with them as they have not only larger volumes, but more importantly more expeience with a particular engine design as the engine is frequently used on different platforms and for many years. I am sure there is a marketing reason (Porsche) .

    Nov 21, 2005 10:47:55 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: Deven

    Re: powerkit vs S designation...

    I have to agree with you Deven. Whatever the reason maybe this has been the most profitable year for Porsche. If you remember in the early 90's Porsche was in bad shape and their quality had gone south. I had a 94 C2 Turbo and that car spent more time at the dealer than my garage, but I loved it and could not part with it until 30K on the engine and then reluctantly sold it. The 3.8 is a different animal than the 3.6. I had to 996's including an 05 C4S (the last of the 996) and loved them. I now enjoy the 3.8 but would never discredit the 3.6 as it is hell of an engine. You are right it's not practical at all but for some odd reason no matter what they do, right or wrong people like you and me stay loyal to PORSCHE cars
     
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