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Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
nberry said:
Even the diehard porschephiles if give a chance to take the keys to either a GT2, GT3RS or a 430 would take the 430.
Good joke!
Compared to the F430 the GT2 is much quicker, more expensive and MORE EXCLUSIVE
This last aspect should even convince you...
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
tdf360 said:Quote:
Martin Tyler said:
1:11.8 --- 130.362 km/h - Lamborghini Gallardo (sport auto 12/03)
Of all the times I've seen posted this is the one that is the most difficult for me to believe. Several hundred pounds heavier and slower accelerating than a 430, saddled with AWD, and a second faster? Something very wrong here. And I must say I have a problem comparing times from different dates at the same track. Anyone who competes has seen the effects of repaving. At my home track (Infineon/Sears Point) when the track was repaved last year, times came down 2 or 3 seconds with no other changes. Laguna Seca has become much faster with the changes to the track for the Moto GP boys, and Thunderhill is faster, too, this year than it was several years ago. If it's not on the same day, take it with a grain of salt.
Gary
The Gallardo time of 1:11.8 was also achieved on Corsa sports tires, i.e. not regular tires.
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
nberry said:
Even the diehard porschephiles if give a chance to take the keys to either a GT2, GT3RS or a 430 would take the 430.
Good joke!
Compared to the F430 the GT2 is much quicker, more expensive and MORE EXCLUSIVE
You are absolutely right! The GT2's are in such demand that most have ONLY lost $60,000 from a MSRP of $190,000. However, there may be good news for the GT2. It may be exceeded in depreciation by the CGT in the near future. Isn't wonderful to own a Porsche?
BTW, so that I can gauge your intelligence, which car would you choose; the 430 or GT2?
Nov 19, 2005 5:18:45 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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MKSGR
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
nberry said:
Even the diehard porschephiles if give a chance to take the keys to either a GT2, GT3RS or a 430 would take the 430.
Good joke!
Compared to the F430 the GT2 is much quicker, more expensive and MORE EXCLUSIVE
Oh yeah? well the GT2 is not bright red, doesn't have 6 dozen brand logos all over the inside and out of the car, and is not as that attention grabing to the eye!! so there!
(I'm being sarcastic)you see why Nick cannot understand why someone would make a different choice? because he (I'm speaking of Nick, not Ferrari drivers in general) is unable to place himself in the shoes of a person that bases his sporcar purschase on factors more function and less image related... he honestly believes no one would not choose the F430.
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
nberry said:
Even the diehard porschephiles if give a chance to take the keys to either a GT2, GT3RS or a 430 would take the 430.
Good joke!
Compared to the F430 the GT2 is much quicker, more expensive and MORE EXCLUSIVE
You are absolutely right! The GT2's are in such demand that most have ONLY lost $60,000 from a MSRP of $190,000. However, there may be good news for the GT2. It may be exceeded in depreciation by the CGT in the near future. Isn't wonderful to own a Porsche?
BTW, so that I can gauge your intelligence, which car would you choose; the 430 or GT2?
I could agree with the following statement: The GT2 is not the best car for those who have to keep a close eye on their cash balance. In that situation the F430 might be the better choice
Nov 19, 2005 5:49:16 PM
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MKSGR
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Carlos from Spain
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Oh yeah? well the GT2 is not bright red, doesn't have 6 dozen brand logos all over the inside and out of the car, and is not as that attention grabing to the eye!! so there!
No problem! Porsche Exclusive will be happy to fulfill every secrete desire...
The downside is: one would probably be the very first customer for the last decades to ask for a dozen of brand logos to be applied all over the place
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
RC said:
Nick, if I would live in your area, you'd be my lawyer of choice, honestly. You have a way of telling people that black is actually white.
RC, have you thought that through?
Telling people that black is white is one thing.
You'd want a lawyer who was capable of CONVINCING people that black is white!
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
RC said:
Nick, if I would live in your area, you'd be my lawyer of choice, honestly. You have a way of telling people that black is actually white.
RC, have you thought that through?
Telling people that black is white is one thing.
You'd want a lawyer who was capable of CONVINCING people that black is white!
Nov 19, 2005 9:22:57 PM
- SoCal Alan
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Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
RC said:
Nick, if I would live in your area, you'd be my lawyer of choice, honestly. You have a way of telling people that black is actually white.
RC, have you thought that through?
Telling people that black is white is one thing.
You'd want a lawyer who was capable of CONVINCING people that black is white!
Very good point!
Nov 20, 2005 1:11:27 AM
- Martin Tyler
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Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
tdf360 said:Quote:
Rossi said:
Corsa tyres from the CS won't fit the F430 and AFAIK the Corsa currently isn't available in the F430's dimension.
I think that is incorrect. The wheel and tire size is the same on the 430 and the CS so the CS Corsas should fit with no problem. In fact I plan to order a set for myself.
Gary
Thanks for the info, I didn't realize that. Always thought, the dimensions of the CS' tyres differ from those of the F430.
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
nberry said:
Even the diehard porschephiles if give a chance to take the keys to either a GT2, GT3RS or a 430 would take the 430.
Good joke!
Compared to the F430 the GT2 is much quicker, more expensive and MORE EXCLUSIVE
You are absolutely right! The GT2's are in such demand that most have ONLY lost $60,000 from a MSRP of $190,000. However, there may be good news for the GT2. It may be exceeded in depreciation by the CGT in the near future. Isn't wonderful to own a Porsche?
BTW, so that I can gauge your intelligence, which car would you choose; the 430 or GT2?
They lose $60.000 in the US, not here. Since Europeans are smarter, there are plenty of Ferraris available for anybody who wants them
Nov 20, 2005 1:21:21 PM
- brunner
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Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
Martin Tyler said:Quote:
nberry said:
You are absolutely right! The GT2's are in such demand that most have ONLY lost $60,000 from a MSRP of $190,000.
Wow that's nearly as much as you lose on a V12 Ferrari the second you leave the showroom. (in the UK anyway)
I wonder why Nick never mentions that
Quite ironic, considering that the V12 are the true Ferraris
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
brunner said:Quote:
Martin Tyler said:Quote:
nberry said:
You are absolutely right! The GT2's are in such demand that most have ONLY lost $60,000 from a MSRP of $190,000.
Wow that's nearly as much as you lose on a V12 Ferrari the second you leave the showroom. (in the UK anyway)
I wonder why Nick never mentions that
Quite ironic, considering that the V12 are the true Ferraris
I am not a fan of the front engine Ferrari's. They are not sexy enough for me. The appear ponderous and frankly not distinctive. Nevertheless, they sound great and are in demand. The SuperAmerica is getting about $50,000 over MSRP in the US.
Nov 21, 2005 1:44:29 AM
- Jeff (in SF)
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Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
nberry said:
RC you should know me well enough to know that these numbers are absolutely meaningless to me. Because the times are so close and there are many variables that affect the times their only value is for forum discussion like this one.
Now if the times were one minute apart like the Radical over the CGT on the NBR then I would say that is noteworthy.
BTW the GT2 and GT3RS are designed to be track cars. One would expect excellent times. But who in their right mind would take one of those cars over a Ferrari 430?
If you don't care about numbers, then why did you take the time to post them on this site with the Ferrari at the top? Feeling insecure about your $200K purchase?
Nov 21, 2005 10:04:44 AM
- assman!!!
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Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:Quote:
nberry said:
RC you should know me well enough to know that these numbers are absolutely meaningless to me. Because the times are so close and there are many variables that affect the times their only value is for forum discussion like this one.
Now if the times were one minute apart like the Radical over the CGT on the NBR then I would say that is noteworthy.
BTW the GT2 and GT3RS are designed to be track cars. One would expect excellent times. But who in their right mind would take one of those cars over a Ferrari 430?
If you don't care about numbers, then why did you take the time to post them on this site with the Ferrari at the top? Feeling insecure about your $200K purchase?
The reason why he posted it at the top was because he copy/pasted from another thread
And just because he isn't interested in the numbers doesn't mean that others aren't. All he's doing is serving the community
And whoever feels insecure about their F430 are in my book legally INSANE/IDIOTS/(enter any other demeaning term HERE)
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
The Hawk said:
Are you sure that the 430 had PZero Corsa? With this tires tha car has more understeer than with PZero Rosso
YES, YES and...YES. So you mean the tested F430 with Corsas was slowlier than with Rossos because of more understeer?
I doubt it. In Hockenheim, the Corsas should give the F430 a 2 seconds advantage. Add two seconds to the tested time and compare it to the 997 Carrera S, a car with 355 HP only at almost the same weight level. I shut up now.
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Decade after decade, the same 911 versus Ferrari rubbish.
By now people should know better because nothing has changed in 35 frikkin years.
A sampling of magazine comparison tests on race tracks reveals ths same results year after year....
The Dino was Slower than the 911S
The 308 was slower than a 911 SC
The 328 was slower than a Carrera
The 348 was slower than a 964
The 355 was slower than a 993
The 360 was slower than a 996
The 430 is slower than a 997
Get over it Ferrari people. No matter how pretty, the mid engine Ferraris have a higher center of gravity, a higher roll center, less traction and usually less braking power
than a 911 of equal generation.
Since the beginning of the Dino era, Ferrari has under stated weight and overstated horsepower. Porsches have usually been quicker and faster than their stated factory numbers.
Its the same old game. Porsche wins. Get over it.
By now people should know better because nothing has changed in 35 frikkin years.
A sampling of magazine comparison tests on race tracks reveals ths same results year after year....
The Dino was Slower than the 911S
The 308 was slower than a 911 SC
The 328 was slower than a Carrera
The 348 was slower than a 964
The 355 was slower than a 993
The 360 was slower than a 996
The 430 is slower than a 997
Get over it Ferrari people. No matter how pretty, the mid engine Ferraris have a higher center of gravity, a higher roll center, less traction and usually less braking power
than a 911 of equal generation.
Since the beginning of the Dino era, Ferrari has under stated weight and overstated horsepower. Porsches have usually been quicker and faster than their stated factory numbers.
Its the same old game. Porsche wins. Get over it.
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
The 360 was slower than a 996
The 430 is slower than a 997
Don't bet the house on that. I've owned a 360 and now a 430, and have considerable Porsche ownership background, as well as friends with 996 and 997 models. The 360 is more than a match for the 997, to say nothing of the 430, which is in another league entirely. If your post was TIC I apologize for the wasted bandwidth, but I didn't see any smilies...
Gary
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Gary, all is ok.
1:14.3 --- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355 PS/1461 kg (sport auto 05/05)
1:12.7 --- 128.748 km/h - Ferrari F430, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 12/05)
The Ferrari was using Pirelli P Corsa tires, essentially radial racing tires with grooves. The Porsche had regular issue street tires.
If the Ferrari had used regular street tires, its time would have been noticeably slower.
As Yogi Bera would say: Its deja vu all over again
1:14.3 --- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355 PS/1461 kg (sport auto 05/05)
1:12.7 --- 128.748 km/h - Ferrari F430, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 12/05)
The Ferrari was using Pirelli P Corsa tires, essentially radial racing tires with grooves. The Porsche had regular issue street tires.
If the Ferrari had used regular street tires, its time would have been noticeably slower.
As Yogi Bera would say: Its deja vu all over again
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
IMO as we don't know if the driver is the same, what was the track temperature, what was the air temp, level of tyre wear etc, etc, we can't compare these cars.Race the two cars the same day with the same tyres, and i'll say:"ok, this one is faster", but in this case, all we see is that all these cars do very well on the track.
Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
Cookie Monster said:
IMO as we don't know if the driver is the same, what was the track temperature, what was the air temp, level of tyre wear etc, etc, we can't compare these cars.Race the two cars the same day with the same tyres, and i'll say:"ok, this one is faster", but in this case, all we see is that all these cars do very well on the track.
Couldn't agree more.
Gary
Nov 22, 2005 8:17:55 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430
Quote:
tdf360 said: The 360 is more than a match for the 997, to say nothing of the 430, which is in another league entirely.
In the sportauto test 997S-20mm with only 355HP beat the 400HP F360 around the nurburbring, around Hockengeim, beat it in barking performance, slalom tests and ski-pad, and matched it in the acceleration tests... so the F360 is no match even for a "Carrera" with less HP. The F430 is as you say in another league than the F360, but still doubt it will be faster than its equivalent, the 997 Turbo.
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