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    Nov 25, 2005 8:35:54 AM

    Crash
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    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: vinnie

    Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    I hate it when threads become waaaaaay to long. This was meant to be about Hockenheim numbers and it turned into a Porsche versus Ferrari arguement. This thread reminds me of the August is near thread posted by Killer.
    Porsche fans like to talk about racetrack times being their strong point but their racetrack times in Winton Australia are a little dissapointing. A Porsche Boxter S was .5 seconds per lap slower than a Subaru Impreza WRX STi. The Subaru has less Power, less acceleration and weighs in at 125 kilograms more than the Porsche. The Porsche in Australia costs $132.500 and the Subaru costs $56.630. The cars were tested on the same day with the same driver, V8 supercar racer Cameron Mconville.
    ps. The BMW M3 CSL is faster around the same track with same driver on same day as a Porsche Turbo. I think that Porsche cars should be much more focused, they should not be beaten by pocket rockets.



    The M3 CSL should be compared to the GT3 RS. Lots of weight saving measures and R-compound tyres to boot. The WRXs and the EVO Mitsus are well known for their high performance/price ratio. A lot is also dependant on the driver. If the Boxster owner could not drive to save his life, the AWD Mitsu clearly has the advantage. I agree with you however about focus. Porsche is going soft and the fact that you have to change suspension on the Turbo to get to sports car performance really does speak volumes on their orientation lately...

    Nov 25, 2005 8:51:33 AM

    vinnie
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    vinnie
    Loc: Australia , Australia
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    Registered on: Feb 25, 2005
    Reply to: bostonmini

    Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    Dunno about there, but here Id say the weight is similar, and a WRX has awd along with 300HP, the convertible porsche has 280 HP (maybe 260 if not the most current boxster).


    What do you mean "Dunno about there"? The Porsche in the test was 206 kilowatts and 1345kilograms and the Subaru was 195 kilowatts and weighs 1470kilograms. The cars were driven on the same day by the same racing car driver.I don't know about you but to me 125 kilograms is a large weight difference. All of the numbers I have given you are 100% correct. the results were Porsche lost and Subaru won the race track lap times by an average of .5 seconds per lap. With these results do I think that Porsche represents great track performance, especially considering the money.
    No.
    Porsche used to be considered "supercars" back in their heyday, but now they are considered by many as "sportscars".

    Nov 25, 2005 9:37:21 AM

    arakis
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    arakis
    Loc: Belgrade,Serbia , Serbia and Montenegro
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    Registered on: Jan 30, 2004
    Reply to: vinnie

    Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

    As for the Bush administration, if US is sdoing such a nice job why is it advised to their sitisens not to travel in over 180 countries. Becouse of their policeing of the world policy, they became the most hated nation in the world, wich ofcourse results to terrorist attecks ageinst it. I wish US would just mind its own buisness. since the WW2 they've been in wars all over the world non stop.

    Nov 25, 2005 3:41:42 PM

    bostonmini
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    bostonmini
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    Reply to: vinnie

    Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

    I said that bc australia may have only a 2.0 STI, which I was under the impression everywhere but the US had, while we got a 2.5liter. that being the case it may not have the same power, I didnt know for sure. IMO, the reason that the WRX won was prolly the AWD advantage; I have no doubt that theres much validity to ur statement, its just that I dont think its totally fair to judge porsche on the entry level model;)

    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    Dunno about there, but here Id say the weight is similar, and a WRX has awd along with 300HP, the convertible porsche has 280 HP (maybe 260 if not the most current boxster).


    What do you mean "Dunno about there"? The Porsche in the test was 206 kilowatts and 1345kilograms and the Subaru was 195 kilowatts and weighs 1470kilograms. The cars were driven on the same day by the same racing car driver.I don't know about you but to me 125 kilograms is a large weight difference. All of the numbers I have given you are 100% correct. the results were Porsche lost and Subaru won the race track lap times by an average of .5 seconds per lap. With these results do I think that Porsche represents great track performance, especially considering the money.
    No.
    Porsche used to be considered "supercars" back in their heyday, but now they are considered by many as "sportscars".

    Jun 18, 2006 2:41:14 PM

    Frankster72
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    Frankster72
    Loc: Germany
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

    the old boxster (260hp, the sportec is based on) had a time of 1:19, the new suspension is the biggest gain of the 987

    Jun 18, 2006 11:05:30 PM

    TulsaTurbo
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    TulsaTurbo
    Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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    Registered on: Apr 24, 2006
    Reply to: arakis

    Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

    Quote:
    arakis said:
    As for the Bush administration, if US is sdoing such a nice job why is it advised to their sitisens not to travel in over 180 countries. Becouse of their policeing of the world policy, they became the most hated nation in the world, wich ofcourse results to terrorist attecks ageinst it. I wish US would just mind its own buisness. since the WW2 they've been in wars all over the world non stop.



    Need one be reminded that this is forum on sports cars?

    Jun 19, 2006 5:24:14 PM

    STRADALE
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    STRADALE
    Loc: NY , United States
    Posts: 11075, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 9, 2005
    Reply to: TulsaTurbo

    Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

    Quote:
    TulsaTurbo said:
    Quote:
    arakis said:
    As for the Bush administration, if US is sdoing such a nice job why is it advised to their sitisens not to travel in over 180 countries. Becouse of their policeing of the world policy, they became the most hated nation in the world, wich ofcourse results to terrorist attecks ageinst it. I wish US would just mind its own buisness. since the WW2 they've been in wars all over the world non stop.



    Need one be reminded that this is forum on sports cars?







    I just got to this thread and was really enjoying the P-Car VS. F-Car back & forth until the political garbage. First time I've put someone on ignore here:

    >>*** You are ignoring this user *** <<


    Regarding PORSCHE vs.FERRARI - Only way to know the winner for sure is to own at least 1 of each and then spend years in testing.

    Jun 19, 2006 5:35:10 PM

    elysium
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    elysium
    Loc: Oslo
    Posts: 553, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 26, 2004
    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Regarding PORSCHE vs.FERRARI - Only way to know the winner for sure is to own at least 1 of each and then spend years in testing.



    And by then there will be new models on the market, making a few more years of testing an absolute necessity

    Jun 19, 2006 5:39:13 PM

    STRADALE
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    STRADALE
    Loc: NY , United States
    Posts: 11075, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 9, 2005
    Reply to: elysium

    Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

    Quote:
    elysium said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Regarding PORSCHE vs.FERRARI - Only way to know the winner for sure is to own at least 1 of each and then spend years in testing.



    And by then there will be new models on the market, making a few more years of testing an absolute necessity





    Exactly....it's an agonizing cycle for the facts.
     
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