Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Hockenheim numbers for the 430 - Page1

Nov 18, 2005 8:49:54 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13735, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002

Hockenheim numbers for the 430

TDf360 posted this on Ferrarichat.

cars tested by SportAuto at Hockenheim

1:12.7 --- 128.748 km/h - Ferrari F430, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:14.1 --- 126.316 km/h - Ford GT40, 550 PS/1599 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:14.4 --- 125.806 km/h - BMW M6, 507 PS (sport auto 12/2005)
1:15.4 --- 124.125 km/h - Caterham CSR200, 200 PS/630 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.4 --- 122.513 km/h - RMS-Mini Cooper S, 270 PS/1191 kh (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.5 --- 122.353 km/h - Abt AS4-R, 480 PS/1780 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.9 --- 121.717 km/h - Sportec Porsche Boxster SP370, 370 PS/1431 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:21.0 --- 115.556 km/h - Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works, 210 PS/1240 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:21.8 --- 114.425 km/h - Mazda MX-5 Expression 2.0l MZR, 160 PS/1140 kg (sport auto 12/05)

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Nov 18, 2005 9:19:02 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Verrrrrry Interesting numbers! Ford used the F360 as the benchmark for the GT, rhey should have planned ahead!

And so much for the bigger engined Boxster as God theory!

Porsche hasnt given it a powerful model for a reason, the results wouldnt warrant it.

So the Boxster remains what it truly is, a "snappy boy" car
and the Cayman is its "diversity" cousin that can get its ass kicked by a tricked out Mini.

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Nov 18, 2005 9:27:46 PM

Gary(SF): Senior; Loc: SF Bay Area; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 4, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

More Hockenheim lap times

BMW M3 CSL:...........................1.13,5 min
F 360 CS:................................1.13,0 min
GT3:.......................................1.13,2 min
GT3 RS:...................................1.11,8 min

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Nov 18, 2005 9:42:23 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

You forgot a few figures, I allowed myself the freedom to add them

:

1:11.6 --- Porsche 996 GT2 MkII, 483 PS/1449 kg (sport auto 05/04)
1:11.8 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381 PS/1373 kg (sport auto 03/04)
1:12.6 --- Porsche 996 GT2 MkI, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/01)
1:12.7 --- 128.748 km/h - Ferrari F430, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:13.2 --- Porsche GT3 MkII, 381 PS/1420 kg (sport auto 06/03)
1:14.1 --- 126.316 km/h - Ford GT40, 550 PS/1599 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:14.3 --- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355 PS/1461 kg (sport auto 05/05)
1:14.4 --- 125.806 km/h - BMW M6, 507 PS (sport auto 12/2005)
1:15.1 --- Ferrari 360 Modena, 400 PS/1464 kg (sport auto 10/99)
1:15.4 --- 124.125 km/h - Caterham CSR200, 200 PS/630 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.2 --- Ferrari Scaglietti 612, 540 PS (sport auto 08/04)
1:16.4 --- 122.513 km/h - RMS-Mini Cooper S, 270 PS/1191 kh (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.5 --- 122.353 km/h - Abt AS4-R, 480 PS/1780 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.9 --- 121.717 km/h - Sportec Porsche Boxster SP370, 370 PS/1431 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:20.3 --- Porsche Cayenne Turbo, 450 PS/2497 kg (sport auto 03/03)
1:21.0 --- 115.556 km/h - Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works, 210 PS/1240 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:21.8 --- 114.425 km/h - Mazda MX-5 Expression 2.0l MZR, 160 PS/1140 kg (sport auto 12/05)

You also forgot to mention, that the F430 and the BMW M6 have been tested with Pirelli PZero CORSA tires. I don't have to say how this affects track performance. Same applies to the GT3 RS. The 997 Carrera S and the 996 GT2 have been tested on standard street tires.

Although the F430 performed absolutely great and there is no doubt that this is one of the best Ferrari models ever, the numbers aren't THAT impressive if viewed in a comparison to the REAL competition. Say "CHEESE", Nick.

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Nov 18, 2005 9:48:01 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
RC said:
You forgot a few figures, I allowed myself the freedom to add them :

1:11.6 --- Porsche 996 GT2 MkII, 483 PS/1449 kg (sport auto 05/04)
1:11.8 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381 PS/1373 kg (sport auto 03/04)
1:12.6 --- Porsche 996 GT2 MkI, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/01)
1:12.7 --- 128.748 km/h - Ferrari F430, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:13.2 --- Porsche GT3 MkII, 381 PS/1420 kg (sport auto 06/03)
1:14.1 --- 126.316 km/h - Ford GT40, 550 PS/1599 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:14.3 --- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355 PS/1461 kg (sport auto 05/05)
1:14.4 --- 125.806 km/h - BMW M6, 507 PS (sport auto 12/2005)
1:15.1 --- Ferrari 360 Modena, 400 PS/1464 kg (sport auto 10/99)
1:15.4 --- 124.125 km/h - Caterham CSR200, 200 PS/630 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.2 --- Ferrari Scaglietti 612, 540 PS (sport auto 08/04)
1:16.4 --- 122.513 km/h - RMS-Mini Cooper S, 270 PS/1191 kh (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.5 --- 122.353 km/h - Abt AS4-R, 480 PS/1780 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.9 --- 121.717 km/h - Sportec Porsche Boxster SP370, 370 PS/1431 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:20.3 --- Porsche Cayenne Turbo, 450 PS/2497 kg (sport auto 03/03)
1:21.0 --- 115.556 km/h - Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works, 210 PS/1240 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:21.8 --- 114.425 km/h - Mazda MX-5 Expression 2.0l MZR, 160 PS/1140 kg (sport auto 12/05)

You also forgot to mention, that the F430 and the BMW M6 have been tested with Pirelli PZero CORSA tires. I don't have to say how this affects track performance. Same applies to the GT3 RS. The 997 Carrera S and the 996 GT2 have been tested on standard street tires.

Although the F430 performed absolutely great and there is no doubt that this is one of the best Ferrari models ever, the numbers aren't THAT impressive if viewed in a comparison to the REAL competition. Say "CHEESE", Nick.

I love you man

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Nov 18, 2005 9:54:46 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

RC, the Ferrari numbers are actually really good. Consider that just two models ago(F355)it was a very unreliable car with a serious image problem. Most recent history Ferraris (except the F40/F50/288GT0)NEVER tested well against 911's!

Now they do! and Now they may also have better mechanical reliability. I have never heard of a 360 or 430 having Porsches RMS, other oil leak problems or !!!!loose sway bar mounts from the factory!

But hey, if you really want a good 4wd sports car get a 06 Gallardo! Its actually quicker than its bigger brother

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Nov 18, 2005 10:00:50 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

The 996 GT2 just flat out hauls ass!

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Nov 18, 2005 10:14:38 PM

Martin Tyler: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
So the Boxster remains what it truly is, a "snappy boy" car
and the Cayman is its "diversity" cousin that can get its ass kicked by a tricked out Mini.

Some more missing figures..

1:15.7 --- 123.646 km/h - Porsche Boxster S (2005), 280hp/1406kg (sport auto 12/04)
1:16.8 --- 121.875 km/h - Porsche 997 Carrera S convertible, 355 PS/1561 kg (sport auto 10/05)

Oh and..
1:11.8 --- 130.362 km/h - Lamborghini Gallardo (sport auto 12/03)

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Nov 18, 2005 10:20:35 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Gary(SF)

Re: More Hockenheim lap times

Quote:
tdf360 said:
BMW M3 CSL:...........................1.13,5 min
F 360 CS:................................1.13,0 min
GT3:.......................................1.13,2 min
GT3 RS:...................................1.11,8 min

The M3 CSL and the F360 CS were using semi-slicks too.

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Nov 18, 2005 10:21:00 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Martin Tyler

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

It doesnt say much for Sportec that their 370hp Boxster is slower than a 280hp regular 987S! Or maybe the factory 987S that was tested had unmentioned "mystery" horsepower.

Really without the same driver behind the wheel and equal suspension or tire compounds and maybe a post test engine scrutiny, you have no real way to know just what the hell is real and what is not!....Take all the numbers and flush them......Except for the GT2!

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Nov 18, 2005 10:33:14 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
RC, the Ferrari numbers are actually really good. Consider that just two models ago(F355)it was a very unreliable car with a serious image problem. Most recent history Ferraris (except the F40/F50/288GT0)NEVER tested well against 911's!

Now they do! and Now they may also have better mechanical reliability. I have never heard of a 360 or 430 having Porsches RMS, other oil leak problems or !!!!loose sway bar mounts from the factory!

But hey, if you really want a good 4wd sports car get a 06 Gallardo! Its actually quicker than its bigger brother

Well, the 360 had other problems you may not be aware of.
Regarding the RMS issue, well, I'm not sure why people make such a big deal out of it, I know only two cars at my dealer which were affected and none of my previous 911 were ever affected. Sh.t can happen, regarding the loose swaybar mounts (I think you're referring to my problem, they actually broke...

), you should ask CR what surprises he had with his F355.

The F430 is a pretty new car, it is difficult to say how reliable it will be. And if you want to compare reliability, you should compare the F430 with the 996 Turbo instead (and later on with the 997 Turbo). I think that the 996 Turbo engine is bullet proof, I know so many highly modified engines which are still running and running and running...

The F430 is a very beautiful car, it is a very very good performer and personally, I think this is the best Ferrari model Ferrari ever built (with the exception of the Enzo of course...

). I would never bash the F430, this would be plain stupid. But let's face it: the competition is getting tougher and tougher, same applies to Porsche too. This is why Porsche made a vital decision regarding the new 997 Turbo and if the rumors are true, oh boy...

But look at the current Mercedes AMG models and especially the rumored SL 65 Bi-Turbo which is rumored to have around 700 HP when it finally shows up. Now guess who would win a straight line drag war with this monster.

1:12.7 is a great time for Hockenheim. But don't forget that the F430 used Corsa tires, with standard tires this time would be more like 1:13.7 or close to 1:14. Almost 997 Carrera S time, not impressive, sorry.

And now, to provoke even more, the rumored 997 Turbo time for Hockenheim (I think on Michelin tires, don't know if they used semi-slicks but I doubt it): around 1:12. Still impressive, if true.

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Nov 19, 2005 12:17:34 AM

Vette6799: Newbie; Loc: Maryland, USA; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 9, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

By any chance, did they run a corvette Z06. I have one to tide me over until my 430 gets here in a year or so. I wouldn't be surprised if it had a better time than the 430.

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Nov 19, 2005 12:43:57 AM

charly: Junior; Loc: D; Posts: 78, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 22, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
nberry said:
cars tested by SportAuto at Hockenheim

1:12.7 --- 128.748 km/h - Ferrari F430, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:14.1 --- 126.316 km/h - Ford GT40, 550 PS/1599 kg (sport auto 12/05)

well, sport auto also mentioned that the Ford GT would have done considerably better if only the gearbox lived up to its design.....
obviously sport auto encountered unexpected shifting problems with their test-GT....
earlier in the acceleration comparison 0-100 and 0-200 km/h the Ford GT finished superior to the F 430:
3.9 vs 4.0 and 11.9 vs 12.6 sec

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Nov 19, 2005 1:09:13 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13735, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

RC you should know me well enough to know that these numbers are absolutely meaningless to me. Because the times are so close and there are many variables that affect the times their only value is for forum discussion like this one.

Now if the times were one minute apart like the Radical over the CGT on the NBR then I would say that is noteworthy.

BTW the GT2 and GT3RS are designed to be track cars. One would expect excellent times. But who in their right mind would take one of those cars over a Ferrari 430?

Even the diehard porschephiles if give a chance to take the keys to either a GT2, GT3RS or a 430 would take the 430.

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Nov 19, 2005 3:22:20 AM

Gary(SF): Senior; Loc: SF Bay Area; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 4, 2003; Reply to: Martin Tyler

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
Martin Tyler said:

1:11.8 --- 130.362 km/h - Lamborghini Gallardo (sport auto 12/03)

Of all the times I've seen posted this is the one that is the most difficult for me to believe. Several hundred pounds heavier and slower accelerating than a 430, saddled with AWD, and a second faster? Something very wrong here. And I must say I have a problem comparing times from different dates at the same track. Anyone who competes has seen the effects of repaving. At my home track (Infineon/Sears Point) when the track was repaved last year, times came down 2 or 3 seconds with no other changes. Laguna Seca has become much faster with the changes to the track for the Moto GP boys, and Thunderhill is faster, too, this year than it was several years ago. If it's not on the same day, take it with a grain of salt.

Gary

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Nov 19, 2005 3:25:57 AM

Gary(SF): Senior; Loc: SF Bay Area; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 4, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
RC said:

You also forgot to mention, that the F430 and the BMW M6 have been tested with Pirelli PZero CORSA tires.

Is this for sure true on the 430? I haven't seen the magazine, just seen the times published. The Corsa tires are not an option on the 430 (to the best of my knowledge) so it seems strange. Perhaps a Euro only option?

Gary

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Nov 19, 2005 4:51:37 AM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: Gary(SF)

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
tdf360 said:
Quote:
Martin Tyler said:

1:11.8 --- 130.362 km/h - Lamborghini Gallardo (sport auto 12/03)

Of all the times I've seen posted this is the one that is the most difficult for me to believe. Several hundred pounds heavier and slower accelerating than a 430, saddled with AWD, and a second faster? Something very wrong here. And I must say I have a problem comparing times from different dates at the same track. Anyone who competes has seen the effects of repaving. At my home track (Infineon/Sears Point) when the track was repaved last year, times came down 2 or 3 seconds with no other changes. Laguna Seca has become much faster with the changes to the track for the Moto GP boys, and Thunderhill is faster, too, this year than it was several years ago. If it's not on the same day, take it with a grain of salt.

Gary

Excellent point, Gary...from what I've gathered, there's only a 3-4% delta btwn Hoch times of cars as divergent as 430, 996TTCab, 612 and SL65....essentially microscopic given we don't have great control on variables like driver, familiarity w/car, track conds, tire/brake/engine freshness, etc etc.....lots of stuff to swing nos. around a 5% range......

Amazing what 4500lb GT cruisers are capable of on a track like Hoch vs allegedly more focused cars

.....obviously, feel of each car and one's driving purposes (straight-line vs mtn twisties vs track) ultimately determine what missle to pull out of garage on any given day.....

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Nov 19, 2005 5:45:36 AM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
nberry said:
RC you should know me well enough to know that these numbers are absolutely meaningless to me. Because the times are so close and there are many variables that affect the times their only value is for forum discussion like this one.

Agreed.

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Nov 19, 2005 8:33:51 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

anybody have time of 996tt or tts?????

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Nov 19, 2005 12:07:48 PM

ha: Expert; Loc: Riyadh , Saudi Arabia; Posts: 1695, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
nberry said:
RC you should know me well enough to know that these numbers are absolutely meaningless to me..

If they are absoulutely meaningless to you why did you start this thread then?

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Nov 19, 2005 12:30:59 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: ha

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
ha said:
Quote:
nberry said:
RC you should know me well enough to know that these numbers are absolutely meaningless to me..

If they are absoulutely meaningless to you why did you start this thread then?

Right to the point, ha.

Nick, if I would live in your area, you'd be my lawyer of choice, honestly. You have a way of telling people that black is actually white.

And if any Ferrari owner wonders, why I would comment the F430 time in Hockenheim, the reason is simple: Nick, a Ferrari owner, made more posts on the Porsche forums than on the Ferrari forum. And these posts are more and less always very provocative, even if he sometimes has a real point in what he says. Sometimes.

Payback time I guess.

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Nov 19, 2005 12:43:44 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Gary(SF)

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
tdf360 said:
Quote:
RC said:

You also forgot to mention, that the F430 and the BMW M6 have been tested with Pirelli PZero CORSA tires.

Is this for sure true on the 430? I haven't seen the magazine, just seen the times published. The Corsa tires are not an option on the 430 (to the best of my knowledge) so it seems strange. Perhaps a Euro only option?

Gary

I was asking myself the same question. Corsa is definetely no official option for the F430, not even in Europe. Only Pirelli you can get is the standard Rosso. Corsa tyres from the CS won't fit the F430 and AFAIK the Corsa currently isn't available in the F430's dimension.

So either Sport Auto got one of the very first of the this tyre or they were referring to the Rosso, which is a factory option besides Bridgestone, Goodyear and Michelin.
If the latter may be the truth, the Hockenheim time of the F430 would be extraordinary.

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Nov 19, 2005 12:47:00 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Yes, Corsa. Maybe a "new" option? Or maybe Ferrari just wanted to make sure that the F430 performs well?

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Nov 19, 2005 2:11:28 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
nberry said: Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Oh no, Nick tries to pitch the ball... there is no mention of certain competition's lap times for comparison or the tires used...

RC is up to bat...

Quote:
RC said:
You also forgot to mention, that the F430 and the BMW M6 have been tested with Pirelli PZero CORSA tires. I don't have to say how this affects track performance... the numbers aren't THAT impressive if viewed in a comparison to the REAL competition. Say "CHEESE", Nick.

He hits it and gets to first base...

Quote:
RC said:
with standard tires this time would be more like 1:13.7 or close to 1:14. Almost 997 Carrera S time, not impressive, sorry.

Steals second base!...

Quote:
RC said:
And now, to provoke even more, the rumored 997 Turbo time for Hockenheim (I think on Michelin tires, don't know if they used semi-slicks but I doubt it): around 1:12. Still impressive, if true.

and third base!...

Ha is up to bat...

Quote:
ha said:
If they are absoulutely meaningless to you why did you start this thread then?

... and its a home run ladies and gentlemen!!... the players calmly walk to home base while waving at the cowd!...

Better luck next time Nick!

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Nov 19, 2005 3:07:51 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

F430 and the Corsa tire

Original text from sport auto: "Der Ferrari profitiert auf der Rundstrecke vom höheren Gripniveau der von Pirelli speziell für diesen Zweck entwickelten Corsa-Reifen".

Meaning: the Ferrari profits from the especially for track racing developped Corsa tires...

Oh boy, Ferrari did it again.

Now the test result is even less impressive. Sad.

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Nov 19, 2005 3:44:55 PM

Gary(SF): Senior; Loc: SF Bay Area; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 4, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
Rossi said:
Corsa tyres from the CS won't fit the F430 and AFAIK the Corsa currently isn't available in the F430's dimension.

I think that is incorrect. The wheel and tire size is the same on the 430 and the CS so the CS Corsas should fit with no problem. In fact I plan to order a set for myself.

Gary

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Nov 19, 2005 4:00:21 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Now they do! and Now they may also have better mechanical reliability. I have never heard of a 360 or 430 having Porsches RMS, other oil leak problems or !!!!loose sway bar mounts from the factory!

If I told you what kind of problems I had with my last (new) Ferrari you would consider RMS a minor issue

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Nov 19, 2005 4:03:39 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
But hey, if you really want a good 4wd sports car get a 06 Gallardo! Its actually quicker than its bigger brother

G's bigger brother is a glorious "event". A true highlight in the super cars sector. The little brother is more for people who do not have the means to go for the real thing

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Nov 19, 2005 4:08:30 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
It doesnt say much for Sportec that their 370hp Boxster is slower than a 280hp regular 987S! Or maybe the factory 987S that was tested had unmentioned "mystery" horsepower.

Really without the same driver behind the wheel and equal suspension or tire compounds and maybe a post test engine scrutiny, you have no real way to know just what the hell is real and what is not!....Take all the numbers and flush them......Except for the GT2!

Apparently the sportec suffered quite a lot from the rather exotic tires used (Toyo)... Surely, sportec cannot be proud of delivering cars with mediocre tires. Who knows what other (hidden) compromises they are willing to make...

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Nov 19, 2005 4:08:44 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13735, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: ha

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Quote:
ha said:
Quote:
nberry said:
RC you should know me well enough to know that these numbers are absolutely meaningless to me..

If they are absoulutely meaningless to you why did you start this thread then?

Read my post again.

Forum discussion.

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Ferrari	Ferrari 812 Superfast	4/21/23 8:09 AM the-missile	285936	550
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	284297	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	258016	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	235516	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	222843	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	218937	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	165768	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	137811	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	114789	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	107050	685
Others	Valkyrie final design?	4/28/23 2:45 AM Rossi	99118	219
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	83390	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	74853	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	52878	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	24549	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	20875	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19111	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16384	120

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Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

More Hockenheim lap times

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: More Hockenheim lap times

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

F430 and the Corsa tire

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

Re: Hockenheim numbers for the 430

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