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r00t61 said:
Is Porsche planning a GT2 variant for the 997?
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RC said:Quote:
r00t61 said:
Is Porsche planning a GT2 variant for the 997?
Planned? Yes. But I didn't hear any rumors of a possible setup, power, etc., meaning that it may take a while. We're expecting the GT3 and Turbo first, I doubt that the GT2 will make it to customers before 2008.
Nov 15, 2005 9:50:11 PM
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Hurst said:
DSG in the TT would be acceptable...in the GT2 would be dissapointing
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MKSGR said:Quote:
Hurst said:
DSG in the TT would be acceptable...in the GT2 would be dissapointing
The performance gain through DSG will be so substantial that you will need it in any high-performance car of the future: You simply gain a lot by the substantially shorter shifting time. No manual shifter can be that efficient.
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Crash said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
Hurst said:
DSG in the TT would be acceptable...in the GT2 would be dissapointing
The performance gain through DSG will be so substantial that you will need it in any high-performance car of the future: You simply gain a lot by the substantially shorter shifting time. No manual shifter can be that efficient.
Well, I really enjoy shifting and the DSG would take a lot of fun out of it. What's next? Self steering, Automatic Braking System and The Smart Gas Pedal(TM)???
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MKSGR said:Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
Hurst said:
DSG in the TT would be acceptable...in the GT2 would be dissapointing
The performance gain through DSG will be so substantial that you will need it in any high-performance car of the future: You simply gain a lot by the substantially shorter shifting time. No manual shifter can be that efficient.
Well, I really enjoy shifting and the DSG would take a lot of fun out of it. What's next? Self steering, Automatic Braking System and The Smart Gas Pedal(TM)???
That is correct. We are probably close to the decision whether fun dominates efficiency (manual) or whether efficiency dominates fun (DSG)...
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turbolite said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
Hurst said:
DSG in the TT would be acceptable...in the GT2 would be dissapointing
The performance gain through DSG will be so substantial that you will need it in any high-performance car of the future: You simply gain a lot by the substantially shorter shifting time. No manual shifter can be that efficient.
Well, I really enjoy shifting and the DSG would take a lot of fun out of it. What's next? Self steering, Automatic Braking System and The Smart Gas Pedal(TM)???
That is correct. We are probably close to the decision whether fun dominates efficiency (manual) or whether efficiency dominates fun (DSG)...
well guys, dont know how many of you have actually driven a DSG. I did and for my taste it is quite fun, actually quite alot. and i'm someone who does heel and toe most of the time, just for the heck of it...
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Hurst said:
Here's my qualm with DSG systems:
1st of all I tested an A3 with DSG and it is a cool amenity but I found it odd that it was on an into luxury hatch.
What it made me think of was trickle-down economics. Applied to cars, we see the cutting edge of technology in racing cars (F1 transmissions ---> Paddle Shifters, Carbon Fiber, Tire technology, downforce etc etc etc) and we immediately want to grasp upon this. However, there is a heirarchical progression that one takes to get to that level.
Do you think Kimi Raikkonen or Fernando Alonso are incapable of driving stick because they use F1 transmissions? Doubtful. However, with the inherient trickledown of this technology, in another generation, what if Manuals become extinct? Imagine chatting with some young hotshot 30 years from now, telling him about "toe heeling" and he laughs at you, calling you some antiquated fool...
Basically what I'm saying is the flagship vehicles need to offer the original manual so there is some historical heritage attached to the vehicle. Otherwise, through generational changes, we will fall down a slippery slope that will lead to the irrevocable shift of motorsports!
Dramatic enough
Nov 16, 2005 10:14:03 PM
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bostonmini said:
Im still wondering why a 997TT would gain weight when I dont (think?) the standard carrera gained much.!
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Crash said:
That kind of reminds me of fighter pilots of today. A WW2 veteran would toast most of them all day long...
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ARMD009 said:
In the BMW's the SMG gear box is only 14 lbs more.
made by Borg Warner, same people going to make the PDK gear box, hopefully it will be only 15-20 lbs more than 6speed.
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The Groom said:Quote:
Crash said:
That kind of reminds me of fighter pilots of today. A WW2 veteran would toast most of them all day long...
A Sidewinder would toast most of your WW2 veterans in their Spitfires or Mustangs! :
Even though the 911 is a 40 year old classic, technical progress should trump anachronism. Do you enjoy your synchronized gearbox, or do you long for the bad old days?
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Crash said:
In a close-up dogfight? The sidewinder doesn't even have time to lock on to the target. It just flies away and crashes onto some lawyer's F430 in La Jolla...
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Crash said:Imagine the day when pro drivers won't be able to drive stick...
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The Groom said:Quote:
Crash said:
In a close-up dogfight? The sidewinder doesn't even have time to lock on to the target. It just flies away and crashes onto some lawyer's F430 in La Jolla...
Except the Mustang would be unable to get within shooting range of an F16, while it won't even know a Sidewinder is headed its way before it is reduced to burning ashes. Dogfighting ability is nice to have on the side, but it's mostly irrelevant nowadays.
Anyway, I doubt a WW2 veteran (or even a Vietnam veteran) could be able to safely fly a plane with computer-controlled controls without a thorough retraining. How many Airbuses A320 crashed in the mid 80's because in a critical situation, the pilots reacted as though they were flying a 737?
Different times, different tools require different skills.Quote:
Crash said:Imagine the day when pro drivers won't be able to drive stick...
Why should they have to? The old-fashioned manual gearbox is already vanishing from the racing scene. If it also disappears from production machines, why should non-collectors even bother?
How many pro drivers can crank-start their machine? How many pro drivers can safely operate a 1885 Benz? Very few. Because it's totally unneeded in today's cars.
I don't miss having to crank-start my car, juggle with the many pedals and a tiny horizontal "steering wheel" that's actually a fishing reel, or having to double declutch and match revs when I don't feel like it. I won't miss the clutch pedal when it vanishes for good (operating the shifter, though... would be nice if they kept it in addition to paddles and the full auto mode).
Or maybe those are the mere ramblings of a fool that started "driving" on racing sims (i.e. using paddles to shift) ages before driving a real car .
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The Groom said:Quote:
Crash said:Imagine the day when pro drivers won't be able to drive stick...
Why should they have to? The old-fashioned manual gearbox is already vanishing from the racing scene. If it also disappears from production machines, why should non-collectors even bother?
How many pro drivers can crank-start their machine? How many pro drivers can safely operate a 1885 Benz? Very few. Because it's totally unneeded in today's cars.
I don't miss having to crank-start my car, juggle with the many pedals and a tiny horizontal "steering wheel" that's actually a fishing reel, or having to double declutch and match revs when I don't feel like it. I won't miss the clutch pedal when it vanishes for good (operating the shifter, though... would be nice if they kept it in addition to paddles and the full auto mode).
Or maybe those are the mere ramblings of a fool that started "driving" on racing sims (i.e. using paddles to shift) ages before driving a real car .
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Hurst said:Quote:
The Groom said:Quote:
Crash said:Imagine the day when pro drivers won't be able to drive stick...
Why should they have to? The old-fashioned manual gearbox is already vanishing from the racing scene. If it also disappears from production machines, why should non-collectors even bother?
How many pro drivers can crank-start their machine? How many pro drivers can safely operate a 1885 Benz? Very few. Because it's totally unneeded in today's cars.
I don't miss having to crank-start my car, juggle with the many pedals and a tiny horizontal "steering wheel" that's actually a fishing reel, or having to double declutch and match revs when I don't feel like it. I won't miss the clutch pedal when it vanishes for good (operating the shifter, though... would be nice if they kept it in addition to paddles and the full auto mode).
Or maybe those are the mere ramblings of a fool that started "driving" on racing sims (i.e. using paddles to shift) ages before driving a real car .
This is an issue that cannot be judged on a purely logicetrnic basis, but is an issue of personal taste.
However, myself, I find that there are a few ESSENTIAL aspects of motorsports. One of them, in my opinion, is the ability to control the car via a manual. It is the essential connection from man to machine.
Steering has become subjective due to the electronics and gizmos that interfere left and right. The tranny really was the last bastion of connection, and that really is being severed.