Nov 11, 2005 3:47:16 PM
Quote:
harlandoc said:
'06 997 S Cab.-4000 miles-roof still leaks, multiple squeaks despite multiple service visits, still have a grinding sound upon releasing clutch (of course, dealer says I'm not clutching properly despite my twenty years of manual transmission experience), DON'T DO IT! Save $20,000; go for BMW M5.
Quote:
harlandoc said:
'06 997 S Cab.-4000 miles-roof still leaks, multiple squeaks despite multiple service visits, still have a grinding sound upon releasing clutch (of course, dealer says I'm not clutching properly despite my twenty years of manual transmission experience), DON'T DO IT! Save $20,000; go for BMW M5.
Quote:
edz61 said:
The 914's and old 911's hardly had anything on the interior, there were not that many parts to rattle or squeak.
Nov 11, 2005 5:45:17 PM
Nov 11, 2005 6:27:08 PM
Quote:
86BBUB said:
What is so unfortunate is that so much of the market accepts the you-can-have-performance-or-you-can-have-quality bromide that the hi-po car establishment has dished out over the years. Its the old "perhaps monsieur does not realize that this is a Ferrari and Ferraris ....." nonsense that oldtime enthusiats are willing to accept. Porsche knows exactly what it is building and exactly what people will put up with. It successfully pushes that envelope all the time. Untill the market produces real competition things are unlikely to change.
Nov 11, 2005 7:16:50 PM
Quote:
69bossnine said:Quote:
86BBUB said:
What is so unfortunate is that so much of the market accepts the you-can-have-performance-or-you-can-have-quality bromide that the hi-po car establishment has dished out over the years. Its the old "perhaps monsieur does not realize that this is a Ferrari and Ferraris ....." nonsense that oldtime enthusiats are willing to accept. Porsche knows exactly what it is building and exactly what people will put up with. It successfully pushes that envelope all the time. Untill the market produces real competition things are unlikely to change.
Nonsense.... I don't think anybody gives manufacturers a "pass" on quality if they can get performance. We're not willing to look the other way just to own a 911.
In the BIG picture, quality of cars today is utterly amazing, from mechanical precision, to fit and finish, and everything in-between. I should know, I've got 150 examples of cars from 1911 to the present-day parked 50 feet away from me, and the progress isn't hard to see.
There are several posts relating to the quality of prior Porsches. Back in the "good old days" when these supposed "quality" cars were being built, lemons still made it out the door, in higher percentages, and people back then were bitching about how the cars that came before those cars were so much better, and on and on.... Absence makes the heart grow fonder. 20 or 30 years from now, there will be a post on Rennteam about how the 999.5 and a half is so poorly built, and how things were so much better back in the 997 days...
To demand quality and desire quality is obvious. To believe that every mass-produced vehicle can be perfect is an infinite goal, and one that can never be entirely achieved. There is nothing wrong in expecting quality, but having reasonable expectations is part of the game. Especially if you're familiar with the ungodly amount of work, man hours, thought, testing, engineering, and details, that goes into the development and production of any machine, from your Porsche, to your refridgerator, to your telephone...
I'm not making excuses for Porsche, I'm just saying that armchair quarterbacking is not terribly productive....
Nov 11, 2005 7:31:14 PM
Quote:
69bossnine said:Quote:
harlandoc said:
'06 997 S Cab.-4000 miles-roof still leaks, multiple squeaks despite multiple service visits, still have a grinding sound upon releasing clutch (of course, dealer says I'm not clutching properly despite my twenty years of manual transmission experience), DON'T DO IT! Save $20,000; go for BMW M5.
So in conclusion, harlandoc, I feel for you, and I wish to thank you. I thank you for your sacrifice. I thank you for having "taken one for the team". I thank you for "jumping on the grenade" that is your lemon-scented 997 cabrio, such that the rest of us can enjoy such superb and trouble-free and rattle-free cruising in our absolutely satisfactory 997's! ... If I were a real humanitarian, I'd sell you mine...... but I'm not.
Quote:
greggr107 said:Quote:
69bossnine said:Quote:
harlandoc said:
'06 997 S Cab.-4000 miles-roof still leaks, multiple squeaks despite multiple service visits, still have a grinding sound upon releasing clutch (of course, dealer says I'm not clutching properly despite my twenty years of manual transmission experience), DON'T DO IT! Save $20,000; go for BMW M5.
So in conclusion, harlandoc, I feel for you, and I wish to thank you. I thank you for your sacrifice. I thank you for having "taken one for the team". I thank you for "jumping on the grenade" that is your lemon-scented 997 cabrio, such that the rest of us can enjoy such superb and trouble-free and rattle-free cruising in our absolutely satisfactory 997's! ... If I were a real humanitarian, I'd sell you mine...... but I'm not.
LOL Boss!
Nov 11, 2005 7:48:18 PM
Nov 11, 2005 7:52:09 PM
Quote:
69bossnine said:Quote:
86BBUB said:
What is so unfortunate is that so much of the market accepts the you-can-have-performance-or-you-can-have-quality bromide that the hi-po car establishment has dished out over the years. Its the old "perhaps monsieur does not realize that this is a Ferrari and Ferraris ....." nonsense that oldtime enthusiats are willing to accept. Porsche knows exactly what it is building and exactly what people will put up with. It successfully pushes that envelope all the time. Untill the market produces real competition things are unlikely to change.
Nonsense.... I don't think anybody gives manufacturers a "pass" on quality if they can get performance. We're not willing to look the other way just to own a 911.
In the BIG picture, quality of cars today is utterly amazing, from mechanical precision, to fit and finish, and everything in-between. I should know, I've got 150 examples of cars from 1911 to the present-day parked 50 feet away from me, and the progress isn't hard to see.
True to a limited extent. Some cars are very well made; some aren't. Many of todays prestige cars aren't. Old cars must be judged relative to their time. Comparing them to new cars is interesting but not informative. We have "owned them all" so I also have a pretty good sense of the progression of automobile quality. Most manufacturers have in fact gone downhill when each product is judged as a function of its era.
There are several posts relating to the quality of prior Porsches. Back in the "good old days" when these supposed "quality" cars were being built, lemons still made it out the door, (TRUE) in higher percentages (SOURCES?), and people back then were bitching about how the cars that came before those cars were so much better, and on and on.... Absence makes the heart grow fonder 20 or 30 years from now, there will be a post on Rennteam about how the 999.5 and a half is so poorly built, and how things were so much better back in the 997 days...
To demand quality and desire quality is obvious. To believe that every mass-produced vehicle can be perfect is an infinite goal, and one that can never be entirely achieved. There is nothing wrong in expecting quality, but having reasonable expectations is part of the game. Especially if you're familiar with the ungodly amount of work, man hours, thought, testing, engineering, and details, that goes into the development and production of any machine, from your Porsche, to your refridgerator, to your telephone...
Basically agree
I'm not making excuses for Porsche, I'm just saying that armchair quarterbacking is not terribly productive....
Huh?
Quote:
STRADALE said:Quote:
69bossnine said:Quote:
86BBUB said:
What is so unfortunate is that so much of the market accepts the you-can-have-performance-or-you-can-have-quality bromide that the hi-po car establishment has dished out over the years. Its the old "perhaps monsieur does not realize that this is a Ferrari and Ferraris ....." nonsense that oldtime enthusiats are willing to accept. Porsche knows exactly what it is building and exactly what people will put up with. It successfully pushes that envelope all the time. Untill the market produces real competition things are unlikely to change.
Nonsense.... I don't think anybody gives manufacturers a "pass" on quality if they can get performance. We're not willing to look the other way just to own a 911.
In the BIG picture, quality of cars today is utterly amazing, from mechanical precision, to fit and finish, and everything in-between. I should know, I've got 150 examples of cars from 1911 to the present-day parked 50 feet away from me, and the progress isn't hard to see.
There are several posts relating to the quality of prior Porsches. Back in the "good old days" when these supposed "quality" cars were being built, lemons still made it out the door, in higher percentages, and people back then were bitching about how the cars that came before those cars were so much better, and on and on.... Absence makes the heart grow fonder. 20 or 30 years from now, there will be a post on Rennteam about how the 999.5 and a half is so poorly built, and how things were so much better back in the 997 days...
To demand quality and desire quality is obvious. To believe that every mass-produced vehicle can be perfect is an infinite goal, and one that can never be entirely achieved. There is nothing wrong in expecting quality, but having reasonable expectations is part of the game. Especially if you're familiar with the ungodly amount of work, man hours, thought, testing, engineering, and details, that goes into the development and production of any machine, from your Porsche, to your refridgerator, to your telephone...
I'm not making excuses for Porsche, I'm just saying that armchair quarterbacking is not terribly productive....
I've never read anything from manufactueres that have said "you-can-have-performance-or-you-can-have-quality"
It's just a statistical fact that the more gizmos and complicated high performance features you have the greater the possibility that something goes wrong. If the poster didn't have a cabriolet and owned a automatic coupe maybe he wouldn't have had a single problem ?? I've never owned a more technical goodies laden automobile as the 997. It takes weeks just to read the manual & figure out all the electronic and other possibilities and even then you still won't use them all. It's like any other product manufactured with an almost endless amount of variables. Or product that is manufactured that pushes the envelope of stress on parts. Show me a race car engine that never needs to be re-built and I'll show you a last place race-car.
"Untill the market produces real competition things are unlikely to change."
Exactly. That's how good Ferrari's & Porsche's are.
Nov 11, 2005 9:17:39 PM
Quote:
69bossnine said:
So in conclusion... I wish to thank you. I thank you for your sacrifice. I thank you for having "taken one for the team". I thank you for "jumping on the grenade" that is your lemon-scented 997 cabrio...."
Nov 11, 2005 9:38:12 PM
Quote:
69bossnine said:Quote:
86BBUB said:
What is so unfortunate is that so much of the market accepts the you-can-have-performance-or-you-can-have-quality bromide that the hi-po car establishment has dished out over the years. Its the old "perhaps monsieur does not realize that this is a Ferrari and Ferraris ....." nonsense that oldtime enthusiats are willing to accept. Porsche knows exactly what it is building and exactly what people will put up with. It successfully pushes that envelope all the time. Untill the market produces real competition things are unlikely to change.
Nonsense.... I don't think anybody gives manufacturers a "pass" on quality if they can get performance. We're not willing to look the other way just to own a 911.
In the BIG picture, quality of cars today is utterly amazing, from mechanical precision, to fit and finish, and everything in-between. I should know, I've got 150 examples of cars from 1911 to the present-day parked 50 feet away from me, and the progress isn't hard to see.
There are several posts relating to the quality of prior Porsches. Back in the "good old days" when these supposed "quality" cars were being built, lemons still made it out the door, in higher percentages, and people back then were bitching about how the cars that came before those cars were so much better, and on and on.... Absence makes the heart grow fonder. 20 or 30 years from now, there will be a post on Rennteam about how the 999.5 and a half is so poorly built, and how things were so much better back in the 997 days...
To demand quality and desire quality is obvious. To believe that every mass-produced vehicle can be perfect is an infinite goal, and one that can never be entirely achieved. There is nothing wrong in expecting quality, but having reasonable expectations is part of the game. Especially if you're familiar with the ungodly amount of work, man hours, thought, testing, engineering, and details, that goes into the development and production of any machine, from your Porsche, to your refridgerator, to your telephone...
I'm not making excuses for Porsche, I'm just saying that armchair quarterbacking is not terribly productive....