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    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Socialism: Government of the duds, by the duds and for the duds.
    Sir Winston Churchill

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Quote:
    Robert2005 said:
    I just can't believe that I still have to work when I'm 70 years old!



    If one is still mentally and physically healthy at age 70, then one SHOULD still work.



    At that age, one should work for his own mental well-being, not out of necessity. I know I probably will, but many people can't or are worse at their jobs than younger, more able people.



    Actually, NEITHER mental well-being NOR necessity is the reason to work if one can. Advanced society develops only when we become ever more productive. Mental "well-being" and "necessity" are merely pre-requisites for work, but only an ethic that champions work increases the chance that society will advance. I don't consider myself to be an extraordinary workhorse, yet when I put in a 70- or 80-hour workweek at a reasonably high intellectual level and I hear co-workers bemoan working anything over 40 hours a week or past age 60 without mental or physical incapacity, I am struck dumb.

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Crash, the next time you drive past a homeless person, why dont you pull over, stop and get out to tell them that you care.

    Tell them how much your new tires cost or explain the options you want on a new 997 or that the water in the Rhine near Dusseldorf shows that almost 11 tons of pure cocaine with a street value of EUR 1.64 billion is consumed annually by the 38.5 million population that live in the river's watershed.

    Tell them that you really care and that you are not just another rich Limosuine Liberal using bogus guilt trips on others to make himself feel better about his own conspicous and lavish consumption.

    Tell him you that really arent the Poster Boy for the Bureau of Double Standards.

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Here's a pie I cooked today:



    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Quote:


    You should be a posterboy for Bush. We actually care for quality of life here. When I work and pay taxes I also pay for MY retirement check, with which I will be spared work at an old age. I feel sorry for narrow-minded people like you. Also, you apologized about your English (which is fine btw.). Where are you from, if not from the US?



    I'm not from US (sadly, but I go each year there). I'm live in a very socialist land and I have the small idea that it's the same that you .

    And I have the same point of view that Jimflat6 about you. Why do you ( or do you want ) drive in Porsche?? Why do you not sell your car, give this money to people who have less than you, and buy for you a Dacia Logan?? Just a question?

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    That's why it's better to have our Social Security system revamped so that people can "OWN" their retirement that they've accumulated all their lives.



    Sorry to burst your bubble, Alan. You do know that the problem with European-style pay-as-you-go retirement systems is the renewal of generations. But did you know that the very same problem bodes ill for investment-based systems?

    Economic and demographic research show a correlation between the (working age adults)/(retired adults) ratio and the long-term yield trends.
    In about 10 years, we will be facing a dreadful situation where more recent retirees will get out of the system than yound adults get into the system (saving for their retirement). Let me tell you you don't want to be left holding the bag when everyone is trying to sell.
    Ergo, in 10 years, we will enter a long-term downward trend.

    It has already happened in the past. It did in France in the 1920's. This was actually one of the reasons France chose a pay-as-you-go system after WW2.
    Even back in the roaring 1960's, remember the poor showing of the stock market? Only in the 1980's did it rally. Not surprisingly, it closely mirrored the 40-year-old-to-65-year-old ratio.

    The very baby boom generation that caused the 1980-2010 rally will cause the 2010-2030 depression. However hard-working, nobody can beat demographics. Especially if demographics are working hard together with Peak Oil to get you.



    Switching from a pay-as-you-go system to a pension fund system, as European nations have recently done or are planning to do, or as the Republican Party is trying to do in America, will not solve anything.

    I do agree that generally, the idea that you are only responsible for your future, that the harder you work, the better, and that you're working for yourself (and your family), not for the never-do-wells in the van down the river, is good for the overall work ethic of the nation.
    However, the certainty that you worked for nothing, that no matter how hard you work, your savings will be wiped out by demographic forces you cannot control nor even fight, will have a terrible, demoralizing effect.
    This is exactly the mind set that has plagued the ghettos for decades. I'm afraid it's about to become mainstream.


    There is a solution, however: either the Chinese bail us out (by snapping everything recent pensioners throw at them), or we let more immigrants in.
    Given the racial problems unveiled by the recent riots in France, I wouldn't count on that.

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Crash, the next time you drive past a homeless person, why dont you pull over, stop and get out to tell them that you care.

    Tell them how much your new tires cost or explain the options you want on a new 997 or that the water in the Rhine near Dusseldorf shows that almost 11 tons of pure cocaine with a street value of EUR 1.64 billion is consumed annually by the 38.5 million population that live in the river's watershed.

    Tell them that you really care and that you are not just another rich Limosuine Liberal using bogus guilt trips on others to make himself feel better about his own conspicous and lavish consumption.

    Tell him you that really arent the Poster Boy for the Bureau of Double Standards.



    I do care, that's why I'm against the most radical changes. I, in fact, would be better off with a more liberal system, but I am willing to accept a reasonable financial penalty in order to see fellow men live decent lives. I'm all for revamping the social security systems (LOTS of freeloaders), but there are people who really can't do jack about their situation.

    Let me put my brainwashed "Belgian" ( ) views into perspective for all of you participating in the debate:

    - I am against high taxes, as long as a decent level of social security can be maintained (and YES, it can be done)
    - I am against freeloaders, who are a contributing factor in the breakdown of european social security systems (many immigrants, I might add); make them work or take their benefits away
    - Al Petee, I'm against 80-hour working weeks as a general rule (40-50 seems about right, anything below that is pampering) - that's 16 hours per day!

    Let me just add that I am not a strong proponent of any one political option and will listen to anyone with good ideas on how to solve the problems we face today. I also have a feeling that, while we disagree in theory, we'd pretty much agree on the ideal system if we ever found one.

    Oh, and Jim, I'm not a liberal .

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Oh, and Alan, we have an option of choosing between a retirement check payments or investing money by ourselves. For the common man, though, a retirement check is enough (80% of your best wage) here.

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Liberal in the US != Liberal in the EU.
    Quite exact opposites, actually.

    US liberal = pinko commie
    EU liberal = heartless free-market scum :

    The truth is, the liberal/statist and left/right issues are completely different matters.

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Liberal in the US != Liberal in the EU.
    Quite exact opposites, actually.

    US liberal = pinko commie
    EU liberal = heartless free-market scum :

    The truth is, the liberal/statist and left/right issues are completely different matters.



    Yes. I've been talking about liberals in the US sense, while the liberal reforms were referred to in the EU sense. I think...

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    Robert2005 said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Poverty was very virtually nonexistent where I live up until a few years ago but has risen up to almost 10% recently, mostly as a result of the textile industry collapse due to much cheaper chinese imports.



    Poverty IS non-existent where I live.



    I'm talking country-wide. It is also nonexistant where I live.



    Re poverty, I went to the States several times, there's 1 thing that comes back every time, old people, mostly black people, 70/75/80 years old cleaning the floor, serving dinner, helping out in the kitchen...etc. I just can't believe it. I just can't believe that I still have to work when I'm 70 years old!



    Where did you see this at, Robert?



    Chicago - Memphis - Philadelphia - New Orleans ... fast food restaurants.

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Al Petee, I'm against 80-hour working weeks as a general rule (40-50 seems about right, anything below that is pampering) - that's 16 hours per day!



    It's 16 hours a day if one works only 3 days a week. To me, this is almost identical to retirement. Western civilization has ingrained in it the idea that 9-to-5, M-to-F is full-time work. I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but that is just plain laughable. There are 168 hours in a week, so working for less than a quarter of them (40/168) is not alot of elbow grease. . . .




    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    LOL! That explains it- those cities and their states( except maybe Memphis) are controlled politically for many, many years by the liberal( Democratic) party. Heck, you would think they would be living in utopia by now- sadly it's very likely getting worse.
    Socialism fails wherever it's tried!

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Quote:
    mljd said:
    Quote:
    Robert2005 said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Poverty was very virtually nonexistent where I live up until a few years ago but has risen up to almost 10% recently, mostly as a result of the textile industry collapse due to much cheaper chinese imports.



    Poverty IS non-existent where I live.



    I'm talking country-wide. It is also nonexistant where I live.



    Re poverty, I went to the States several times, there's 1 thing that comes back every time, old people, mostly black people, 70/75/80 years old cleaning the floor, serving dinner, helping out in the kitchen...etc. I just can't believe it. I just can't believe that I still have to work when I'm 70 years old!





    You're crazy! Do you want to pay the pension of somebody who never work of his live and who only take your money? Because when you work and when you pay your taxes (or social securities if you are employee), you pay all the people who prefer remain at house and prefer to not work, all the lazy peoples. I prefer to work till my dead. In all case, I must because I owning my business. I'm sorry but people like you are the dead of Europe. I will stop otherwise I will be nervous.

    Just one word considering Germany, I go often there and it's a great nation. When Germany will have a good government, this economy will be very good because there are people who mind well.

    Sorry for my English!



    Well mr business - I run my own company for 5 years now, work 50% time for one of the biggest companies in the US, work 7/7 days - no holidays (ask my girlfriend she's very happy with it) am 29 years old, bought a new BMW 330CiC and 3 estate properties 3 years ago with my OWN money and will go for a 997S in 1 year. Environment? Flanders, people can already retire at 55/56; we have very high tax rates (frustrates me as well) and at the same time we became/are now one of the richest regions in the world where anyone has access to one of the best health care systems of the world. If you'd like to work till you drop dead - your choice, I'd like to quit as soon as possible. My grandparents are currently on a worldtrip for 1.5 years. They have worked for it! Actually, I pay taxes for my lazy grandparents.

    There are limits to the social system -I don't need any economic lesson from you- this does not mean we need to go back to a society based on exclusion. Cheers.

    Re: Oh NO!! VAT rising from 16% to 19% in Germany

    Sorry guys, off-topic, off-topic, off-topic.

     
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