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    Nov 1, 2005 5:10:07 PM

    MMD
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    Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    I'm well past the breakin on the odometer of my 06 997S. Been driving it like I stole it (occasionally ).

    Gotta say, as far as brute acceleration is concerned I'm spoiled by my 04M3 and now I understand why guys lust after the Carrera Turbo. So the 355hp vs.325 hp of the S and non-S? Consider how your tolerance and lust for G-forces has developed from your experience with the HP of your last car.

    Don't get me wrong, there might be much more than HP to consider between both models for some people. But I recall guys saying the extra 25 isn't such a big deal. I think that's somewhat misleading. I'm saying you might soon wind up wishing for every H you can get.

    Nov 1, 2005 5:22:26 PM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    MMD. Only a few miles and you are already spoiled by the 997's speed feel and overwhelming competency.

    You have all the power you will ever need. When did you last hit 150mph to pass slower cars? Have you topped the car out yet? Seen the speedo needle at 180? Even slid it sideways into the bank parking lot yet?

    Where you gonna go with your extra dream hp? State Patrol HQ?

    I think you need to look at your speedometer more!

    The 997 is the complete balanced performance package.

    A M3 is not, a Corvette is not and your distant Arkansas cousin with that 455 Nitrous injected Pontiac Trans Am that does 10.7 second qtr miles at 137 mph is not.

    Now you know something can be so good it can feel routine and even be boring. There is a lot more there that really takes professional instruction to learn how to extract and enjoy.

    Catch youself now or you will soon want the SCARY fast. Go test drive a used GT2, they make a TT feel like a languid old Ford T Bird.

    Consider what you have and what it can really do. Nothing beats it for new under 100K.

    Enjoy it!


    Nov 1, 2005 5:45:49 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    IMHO, there is no such thing as "all the horsepower you will ever need", when you're driving a car that by its very nature you really don't "need". A 911 isn't a "what you need" car, a VW Golf is. The 911 is an indulgence, and a sports car, where athletecism and FUN are the key ingredients. The more, the better (and usually more expensive), until you just can't hook the tires to the road... My 997S is all the horsepower I could practically afford in a 911 package. I'd take a ton more juice if Porsche handed it to me. Balance is a fantastic virtue, but the balance should be controllable by your right foot, not by the limits of the power available, in my perfect world.

    A Miata owner would use "balance" as an excuse for being slower than a Toyota Tundra.

    I love my 997S, I wouldn't give up a single drip of its available power. Wish I had alot more, but, it's enough to have staying power as good entertainment for me. But you'll never hear "it's enough" out of my mouth, unless the thing damn near makes me black-out from accelerative G-forces..!!!!

    Let the faint of heart, and weak of nerve, reside in my rear view mirror muttering about balance because their knuckles are white, and they're soaked in a cold sweat, trying to keep up in their lo-po car...

    Nov 1, 2005 5:57:49 PM

    mish
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    People often ask why the heck do you need 450 hp in a SUV. Like 69Boss says, it's all about 'indulgence, where athletecism and FUN are the key ingredients.'

    It's a great feeling thrusting your foot down on that accelerator and seeing your 2 tonne monster efortlessly breeze past 90% of the cars on the road.

    However, HP is like crazy addictive drug....no matter how many hits you have, you just have that 'little bit more' to keep getting the same highs!


    Ladies and Gentleman - welcome the Cayenne Turbo S.

    Nov 1, 2005 6:12:09 PM

    Paul S in TX
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Jim,

    Do you "need" a car that has more than 200 hp today--unless you're towing something probably not. It's all about want, and the driving experience. Fast acceleration within legal speed limits (or your personal limit) is fun--not as much fun as taking a corner at speed. But fun, nonetheless

    If you think about it, you use every ounce of performance potential everytime you've floored the accelerator up to whatever speed you decide to lift. Trying to use a fraction of the car's handling ability is far more difficult to accomplish on the street. Yet, who here is the advocate for making Porsches handle worse because you don't need a car with handling capabilities that exceed the driver's ability to exploit them. Of course, one's not going to say that.

    Once the HP and torque exceed the limits of the drive train/tires to put the power to the street, then I agree you don't need more and I personally don't want more at that point since I'm not real big into wheel spin and tire smoke.

    In addition to making more money, that's why Porsche offers so many variants--want entry level power, hey we got a Boxster for you; want a bit more, Boxster S; want more but in coupe form, Cayman S; want more in a Cab form, 997; more--997S; more--997 S X51; more Turbo; more GT2; less GT but more of a pure 911 experience--GT3; want the most you can get, Carrera GT.

    Choices--life is grand.

    And yeah, I need a car just like what I have (PCA Club Coupe) even if I never hit the top end speed. Hello, my name is Paul and I'm a car nut.

    Nov 1, 2005 6:18:04 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: Paul S in TX

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Gents: It does not matter how fast you can go or where you are going to use all the horsepower. Even if the car is parked in the garage, just knowing what you can do in that car is a sensational feeling. It's like you are a big muscular guy who is very strong but that does not mean you want to beat the hell out of every one, but it's good to know that you can.

    Nov 1, 2005 6:32:55 PM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: Paul S in TX

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    For instant passing power and raw accelleration you really cant beat a 70 Olds 442 W-30 with 30 over pistons and a few other tricks. Its fun watching the gas gauge needle sweep down as fast as the speedometer needle climbs.

    But that aside, Porsches to me are more fun at over a 130 than under. Its in the upper speed ranges where they really shine. The directional stability, braking, aerodynamics and speed feel are incredible and unique. Its a sensation they should patent and its where they put a lot of their money and engineering.

    Nov 2, 2005 5:37:12 AM

    SVNSVN
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Nov 2, 2005 5:48:00 AM

    Louis Offline
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    Reply to: edz

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    Gents: It does not matter how fast you can go or where you are going to use all the horsepower. Even if the car is parked in the garage, just knowing what you can do in that car is a sensational feeling. It's like you are a big muscular guy who is very strong but that does not mean you want to beat the hell out of every one, but it's good to know that you can.



    Interesting comparison!

    Nov 2, 2005 7:42:56 AM

    Butzi
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    Reply to: edz

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    It's like you are a big muscular guy who is very strong but that does not mean you want to beat the hell out of every one, but it's good to know that you can.



    I guess that makes me an "S-Man"!!!

    Nov 2, 2005 9:27:19 AM

    Avantgarde
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    Reply to: Butzi

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    ..

    Nov 2, 2005 10:59:08 AM

    throt
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    Reply to: Avantgarde

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    When you get used to any HP figure , which you do , thats when you really find out how much you like the car and what made you buy it in the first place ,, in other words are you that true Enthusiast you thought you were..

    throt..

    Nov 2, 2005 1:54:56 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: throt

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Haffing da ors pahwah, eez guud faw kraw-shing da gurhlee mahn een da peesa krahp neckst tuu yuu aht da lyeet!

    Odderwyze, eet ees guud tu haf da kahr bee gentul tuu da voomun yu luff.

    Zo, da nynah eeleffen eez da behst kaw fer daht!

    Nov 2, 2005 1:57:34 PM

    throt
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Haffing da ors pahwah, eez guud faw kraw-shing da gurhlee mahn een da peesa krahp neckst tuu yuu aht da lyeet!

    Odderwyze, eet ees guud tu haf da kahr bee gentul tuu da voomun yu luff.

    Zo, da nynah eeleffen eez da behst kaw fer daht!




    Agreed ...

    throt..

    Nov 2, 2005 2:03:49 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: throt

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Quote:
    throt said:
    When you get used to any HP figure , which you do , thats when you really find out how much you like the car and what made you buy it in the first place ,, in other words are you that true Enthusiast you thought you were..

    throt..




    Exactly, once you get used to the power (and you always do, until you get up into the realms where control at full throttle is dicey..), is the rest of the car worth a damn, and suited to your likes and needs?? That's where the 997 really shines in my book. The entire car is fantastic. Wish I had another 100-150 ponies to go with it!!!!

    I know I know, "buy a Turbo then"...... Maybe next time around..., but I'm not a big AWD fan, and I'm not about to pay the premium for a GT2, losing all the creature comforts and refinements, gaining a goofy decklid wing, just to get a Turbo with RWD. I wish the AWD were optional on the regular Turbo, reducing the MSRP accordingly.

    Nov 2, 2005 3:54:33 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: edz

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    Gents: It does not matter how fast you can go or where you are going to use all the horsepower. Even if the car is parked in the garage, just knowing what you can do in that car is a sensational feeling. ...



    Spot on! I sat four times in traffic on a 2 1/2-hour trip (that usually takes half of the time). Would there be any other car I would want to be in? Nooo...

    Nov 2, 2005 9:06:48 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: throt

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Quote:
    throt said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Haffing da ors pahwah, eez guud faw kraw-shing da gurhlee mahn een da peesa krahp neckst tuu yuu aht da lyeet!

    Odderwyze, eet ees guud tu haf da kahr bee gentul tuu da voomun yu luff.

    Zo, da nynah eeleffen eez da behst kaw fer daht!




    Agreed ...

    throt..




    LOL!!

    Nov 2, 2005 9:40:43 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    I know exactly what you mean. After having more than 400hp in the last 4 out of 5 sports cars in the last 3 years (the 997 S only one under 400hp) I'm not that excited with the power. It's fine once you're in the power band and in the upper revs but in the low to mid range the car is sluggish. Instead of holding on for dear life like with some of the other cars I've owned I find myself going - "come-on, come-on".

    I don't buy the arguement that you don't need or use 355 hp. I might not have the car at maximun mph but gun the throttle in 1 - 5 gears shifting at or near red-line using all the car has at least 5 to 10 times everytime I drive to work. So I'm using all 355HP anywhere from 5 to 50 times a day. Yes I need 355 HP, Actually I need more.

    Nov 2, 2005 10:43:21 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Exactly. Your peak horsepower affects available power THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE RANGE of throttle inputs. The more power on tap at full throttle, the livelier and more eager the car drives at 1/4 throttle, period. The more powerful it is with the slightest throttle input, the more fun, and the more lively your commute, and the greater ease in which you slice and dice your way to work. Sure, winding her out at 130 mph+ on a closed course or remote road is great, but how often do you get to do that?? I like a car that squirts around town EFFORTLESSLY, leaping out of its skin with the slightest push on the pedal, as if it's light as a feather. Feeling a car's full power at full throttle is great. But feeling mammoth power, when you're only asking the gas pedal for 1/4 of its stroke, is the stuff that makes you giggle the whole way to work.

    You're ALWAYS using power, the more power you have, the more effortless and athletic and exciting normal conservative driving is, as your car feels like an olympic sprinter among a sea of retirees with walkers and in wheelchairs.

    Nov 2, 2005 11:47:11 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Exactly. Your peak horsepower affects available power THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE RANGE of throttle inputs. The more power on tap at full throttle, the livelier and more eager the car drives at 1/4 throttle, period. The more powerful it is with the slightest throttle input, the more fun, and the more lively your commute, and the greater ease in which you slice and dice your way to work. Sure, winding her out at 130 mph+ on a closed course or remote road is great, but how often do you get to do that?? I like a car that squirts around town EFFORTLESSLY, leaping out of its skin with the slightest push on the pedal, as if it's light as a feather. Feeling a car's full power at full throttle is great. But feeling mammoth power, when you're only asking the gas pedal for 1/4 of its stroke, is the stuff that makes you giggle the whole way to work.

    You're ALWAYS using power, the more power you have, the more effortless and athletic and exciting normal conservative driving is, as your car feels like an olympic sprinter among a sea of retirees with walkers and in wheelchairs.



    Nov 3, 2005 1:23:45 AM

    RAKLAW
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: Deciding on S vs. Non-S? Here's a trivial observation

    Very interesting posts..One really cannot have enough HP as you actually and quickly get used to and sometimes bored with the HP of your car.. I can recall in late 70's thinking my Dino 246 with flairs and chairs was the cats a...til I got passed and couldn't keep up with a 240Z. By went the Dino for a 365 GTB.
    I just pre-traded a Cayenne TT for a 997S Cab with X51 Powerkit, and not having driven the package hope I will not be dissapointed with the power. Yet the point is well taken that once used to the power, the fine points of the car will emerge, if indeed they are there in the first place. I had an 89 930S with Turbolag up the kazoo, but still loved that car.. I am sure I can count on Porsche to deliver a fine product, and am itching to try out the X51 option.
     
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