Crown

If I recall your wife is an attractive woman. Why in the world would she want to be seen driving an old fart homely sedan? That would be like dressing her in a burka.

You have your way. I have my way. As for the correct way and the only way, it does not exist.

Personally I believe his wife would make a Pontiac Aztec look good. Same with mine, she rocks her little Honda HRV.  Maybe some wives don’t need to compensate for how they look or whom they married. They just want to enjoy life and focus on important things.  

And what’s wrong with a Burka?  And when in the heck did THAT rocket ship of a sport sedan turn into an old fart homely sedan?  I guess we are have our own tastes and voicing them half the fun. 

nberry:

If I recall your wife is an attractive woman. Why in the world would she want to be seen driving an old fart homely sedan? That would be like dressing her in a burka.

Because she likes the car and it is an AMG, different perception for car fans and it is only a plus if "ordinary" people believe this is a taxi. LOL

Nick, cool cars don't make cool people. Either you have "it" or not. 😉

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Definitely under!!! 

2016 Porsche 991 Carrera GTS  Black with AeroKit Cup Package,  2017 Porsche Cayenne Platinum  Purpurite Metallic, New York

Are you in some kind of depression or something?

You always sound so negative in your posts.

My Momma always taught me "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all...."

absent:

Are you in some kind of depression or something?

You always sound so negative in your posts.

My Momma always taught me "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all...."

I tell it like it is. When posters solicit opinions I believe in being honest especially if it can influence their decision. When I posted my order of the 2GT3, several posters did not like certain aspects of my order and let me know. That’s as it should be.

You have your way. I have my way. As for the correct way and the only way, it does not exist.

RC:

Whoopsy:

And I am taking the under 

You are going to loose, don't do it. 

This is my wife's car, not mine.

You mean like how Nick's say it's his wife's car? 

absent:

Are you in some kind of depression or something?

You always sound so negative in your posts.

My Momma always taught me "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all...."

Nick is not even close to a certain someone else haha

Nick, like you I don’t believe in blowing smoke up someone’s rear end. I tell as I see it.

You have your way. I have my way. As for the correct way and the only way, it does not exist.

nberry:

 I tell as I see it.

, way to go, Nick ..

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

RC:

Gnil:

Congrats , I like the car ....... but probably not longer then a few month   

Guys, you need to read what I write (yes, I know it is a lot but... ). The E63 is my wife's car, it will replace the Cayenne. I still have the R8 and will take delivery of a facelifted C63 S AMG convertible in autumn. No worries here, car will definitely stay the full 36 months.

Your itch for a SUV will come back rather sooner then later .....

I always have an itch for a SUV but I wanted that G63 badly and it couldn't happen, so the itch is kind of gone. The Cayenne Turbo would have been nice as well but now, what is done, is done.

Maybe after three years, I will get a Cayenne Turbo S facelift with a special lease offer.  

so you are replacing your 991.2 GTS cab with a C63s cab? what is your thinking behind this again ? sorry but i am not sure that is a move i would do and i am not sure the c63 is a whole lot bigger inside either...

The C63 not bigger inside than a 991? Wait what? Did you ever sat in both?

997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 

what would you rather have? 

... c63 is a whole lot bigger inside either...

Try to put some grown ups on those rear seats! 

One reason why I love the C Class is that it has so much space compared to the 911. Otherwise I would never ever drive one and buy a DD 911 right away. 

996FourEss:

RC:

Gnil:

Congrats , I like the car ....... but probably not longer then a few month   

Guys, you need to read what I write (yes, I know it is a lot but... ). The E63 is my wife's car, it will replace the Cayenne. I still have the R8 and will take delivery of a facelifted C63 S AMG convertible in autumn. No worries here, car will definitely stay the full 36 months.

Your itch for a SUV will come back rather sooner then later .....

I always have an itch for a SUV but I wanted that G63 badly and it couldn't happen, so the itch is kind of gone. The Cayenne Turbo would have been nice as well but now, what is done, is done.

Maybe after three years, I will get a Cayenne Turbo S facelift with a special lease offer.  

so you are replacing your 991.2 GTS cab with a C63s cab? what is your thinking behind this again ? sorry but i am not sure that is a move i would do and i am not sure the c63 is a whole lot bigger inside either...

My 991.2 GTS cab wasn't even supposed to "happen", it replaced my 991.1 C4 GTS cab due to an offer from my dealer I couldn't refuse. 

The 991.1 C4 GTS cab was initially planned to go this April since the lease would ran out at that time.

Since we postponed the C63 S cab delivery to Oct./Nov. 2018, so we would get the facelift, it was a very convenient offer (991.2 GTS cab) from the dealer.

Why the C63 and no more 911? Simple reasons: Cost, rear seats and...my son.

Cost: The C63 S AMG cab (facelift) will be around 1250 EUR per month, no down payment, 60k km total (36 months). Car is worth 123k EUR, pretty much loaded (no ceramics though). A comparable new 992(!) Carrera S would have been at least 2000 EUR per month, probably more.

Rear seats: My daughter hits the 911 roof with her head, she cannot sit in the back anymore. My son also hates it in the rear and they always fight why my daughter sits in the front. As you can imagine, my wife doesn't like it too much in the rear but thank god, she is not that tall and thin. In the C63, the rear seats are absolutely great, we had a C63 loaner in Mallorca last summer and kids loved it.

Son: He doesn't want to be driven in a 911 to school, his class mates made stupid comments (how rich are you...bla bla bla). The Cayenne was never a problem but I once picked him up in the R8 and hell broke loose in his class, he was hammered with comments like "are you a millionaire" and similar stuff. He is a shy boy who doesn't like to attract too much attention, so this was pretty bad for him and he hated it.

My main weekend/fun toy is the R8, so I am not willing to pay big money for other cars anymore. We like to have a family car and a convertible (wife), so the E63 S and the C63 S convertible in addition to the R8 make a lot of sense for us.

When the kids are gone to university (daughter finishes school this year, son in about four years), we don't need a family  car anymore and we plan to have two cars only. A daily driver convertible and a sportscar. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

spudgun:

The C63 not bigger inside than a 991? Wait what? Did you ever sat in both?

The C63 rear seats are great, fully sized rear seats, not "spares" like in the 911. 

We drove the C convertible for a week in Mallorca and kids and wife (who sat in the rear from time to time) absolutely loved it. Not even close to the cramped seating in the back of the 911.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Whoopsy:

RC:

Whoopsy:

And I am taking the under 

You are going to loose, don't do it. 

This is my wife's car, not mine.

 

You mean like how Nick's say it's his wife's car? 

  No, seriously. There is no way to exchange the E63 for something else during the 36 months lease period. 

We really discussed this in the family and also thought it through very thoroughly. The GLC 63 is a SUV and we love SUVs but in this case now, paying only 100 EUR per month more for an E63 S AMG Edition 1 with ceramic brakes, we just didn't see the point in getting the GLC. Also, I drove the E63 and was pretty impressed by the drive feel and performance. If there is any car to come close to a family sportscar, this is it. I love the interior (yes, I am getting older... ), I love the power and I love the sound and chassis.

The thing is: Even if I wouldn't like it too much, It wouldn't really bother me. Why? I'd still have a C63 S convertible and the R8. My weekend toy needs to be the one I really love, the other cars don't really matter that much. I hate for example the Mini JCW, most boring car ever but I drive it for almost three years now but thank god, it goes back to Mini in October.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Our almost 12 year old daughter is almost hitting the roof of the California in the rear seats. This summer might be OK (we only use it in summer) but next one might be a real issue. For short trip it is fine but sometimes we drive 3 hours the same day to visit some nice local town, and this is going to be tricky. There is simply no car on the market today that would be a solution. Of course we all fit nicely in the manual 612 but it is not convertible.

Maybe the only thing that makes sense is to sell the manual 612 (if someone pays a good price for it as it is very rare, only 80 in the USA, but it is a niche car) and get a late FF with panoramic roof or a used Lusso. We can keep the 10 year old California for fun to complement the AM Roadster.

RC, with the lack of good lease from Porsche, you are realizing what many of us have for a few years: Porsches are now too expensive for what they offer (Macan and 911 GTx models aside). They are stuck between lightly used exoctics that depreciate a lot and mainstream very good but much cheaper cars from luxury German automakers (like Mercedes). Even worse for Porsche is that not only the performance gap has shrunk from the cheaper competitors, but as performances go up you can use the marginal performance increases less and less without getting in trouble (France is lowering regular road speed limit from 90kph to 80kph for example. Also congestion in metro cities in the USA is getting worse and no money is invested in infrastructure to solve it, no wonder semi autonomous electric cars are the latest craze...

SciFrog

Maybe S63 Cab is a soluton for your "problem"

If I was 30 years older, maybe... Still “just” a Mercedes...

In that case take a Bentley 

Christian, I am curious. If your son school mates make comments about your R8/Porsche and infer you're a millionaire, what the hell do German kids parents drive their children to school with? Kia's? Prius? Do they own shoes? Do you live in a slum district?

Hmm, now that I think about it, with all your lease payments over the years you easily could have a million dollars in the bank.

You have your way. I have my way. As for the correct way and the only way, it does not exist.

nberry:

Christian, I am curious. If your son school mates make comments about your R8/Porsche and infer you're a millionaire, what the hell do German kids parents drive their children to school with? Kia's? Prius? Do they own shoes? Do you live in a slum district?

Hmm, now that I think about it, with all your lease payments over the years you easily could have a million dollars in the bank.

I have enjoyed Rennteam silently for some time. The observations and knowledge of active participants have been super informative. I think the above comments go too far.  Any smart person choosing to lease v depreciation on most cars has capital opportunity to invest elsewhere, particularly when most cars do not have the residuals of a gt3 or 488gtb. I made on cash on a 458 and 575 and lost a $100k on an FF, so stupid me ! So RC cars of choice make perfect sense being leased and nberry select choices may get him ahead on sale time. However one little accident will put paid to that when it comes to selling without a clean Carfax. So the opportunity cost of capital ( leasing) outweighs purchase in all except, those lucky to get a special desirable low volume ( 918), collector cars ( 575 manual ) ) or those of a vintage at close to bottom of depreciation curve ( 996 turbo). The game will last as long as developed economies have crazy low interest rates. Great forum and wonderful insights !

Nice of you to speak out. 

Hence my old 997 Turbo. 

Cheers and join in more often. 

SciFrog:

Our almost 12 year old daughter is almost hitting the roof of the California in the rear seats. This summer might be OK (we only use it in summer) but next one might be a real issue. For short trip it is fine but sometimes we drive 3 hours the same day to visit some nice local town, and this is going to be tricky. There is simply no car on the market today that would be a solution. Of course we all fit nicely in the manual 612 but it is not convertible.

Maybe the only thing that makes sense is to sell the manual 612 (if someone pays a good price for it as it is very rare, only 80 in the USA, but it is a niche car) and get a late FF with panoramic roof or a used Lusso. We can keep the 10 year old California for fun to complement the AM Roadster.

RC, with the lack of good lease from Porsche, you are realizing what many of us have for a few years: Porsches are now too expensive for what they offer (Macan and 911 GTx models aside). They are stuck between lightly used exoctics that depreciate a lot and mainstream very good but much cheaper cars from luxury German automakers (like Mercedes). Even worse for Porsche is that not only the performance gap has shrunk from the cheaper competitors, but as performances go up you can use the marginal performance increases less and less without getting in trouble (France is lowering regular road speed limit from 90kph to 80kph for example. Also congestion in metro cities in the USA is getting worse and no money is invested in infrastructure to solve it, no wonder semi autonomous electric cars are the latest craze...

Why should I lie? Money is an issue. While I'm ready to "suffer" for a weekend toy, not so much for a daily driver and/or family car. 

I love Porsche but lately, I do not get the feeling I get what I am paying for. The R8 was a real eye opener (and I still think that many many people are underestimating this car) compared to the 911 Turbo S, even if performance is basically the same.

Me and my wife had a tax audit recently (last year, took over 7 months, was a pain in the ass) and surprisingly, the cars were no issue at all. Actually, we negotiated a few improvements for us but we still have a certain limit with have to go with. So the C63 and the E63 are OK with the tax advisor (and the tax office), my current 991.2 GTS Cab is borderline (for my business). The R8 is of course a private lease, no way to use it as a company car at my (business) income.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

nberry:

Christian, I am curious. If your son school mates make comments about your R8/Porsche and infer you're a millionaire, what the hell do German kids parents drive their children to school with? Kia's? Prius? Do they own shoes? Do you live in a slum district?

We live in one of the better regions in Bavaria. My kids go to public school (again, one of the "better" ones).

95% of the cars are cheaper hatchbacks, smaller cross-over SUVs and similar cars in the 10-35k EUR price range.

The rest are Audis, BMWs, Mercedes in the 40-70k EUR price range. There is one parent driving a Lamborghini Aventador (I do not know him personally) and one driving a Mercedes C63 (I know him personally, sometimes even his 18 year old kid drives the car...like a maniac, even near the school ).

Many of the kids come from middle class families and they live in houses, not condos but most houses have around 120-150 square meters on average, the garden usually around 400 square meters. For comparison: Our house has 400 square meters and 2000 square meters garden. Some of our neighbors even have swimming pools, which is considered pure luxury in Germany. Mostly because of water cost. A good friend has a beautiful house, very modern architecture from the 70s with a very large indoor(!) pool. He hasn't used that indoor pool for a couple of years now because water cost was too high in the end. 1500 EUR per month just for water and pool heating/etc.? No way.

Hmm, now that I think about it, with all your lease payments over the years you easily could have a million dollars in the bank.

This is where you are wrong: With all those lease payments, I had money "available" for stock market investments. I did pretty well over the past couple of years. Buying the cars would have "blocked" capital and selling these cars would have been a pain in the ass. In Germany, good luck with trying to sell a 100k+ car privately.  So many psychos out there...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

9Eleven:

nberry:

Christian, I am curious. If your son school mates make comments about your R8/Porsche and infer you're a millionaire, what the hell do German kids parents drive their children to school with? Kia's? Prius? Do they own shoes? Do you live in a slum district?

Hmm, now that I think about it, with all your lease payments over the years you easily could have a million dollars in the bank.

I have enjoyed Rennteam silently for some time. The observations and knowledge of active participants have been super informative. I think the above comments go too far.  Any smart person choosing to lease v depreciation on most cars has capital opportunity to invest elsewhere, particularly when most cars do not have the residuals of a gt3 or 488gtb. I made on cash on a 458 and 575 and lost a $100k on an FF, so stupid me ! So RC cars of choice make perfect sense being leased and nberry select choices may get him ahead on sale time. However one little accident will put paid to that when it comes to selling without a clean Carfax. So the opportunity cost of capital ( leasing) outweighs purchase in all except, those lucky to get a special desirable low volume ( 918), collector cars ( 575 manual ) ) or those of a vintage at close to bottom of depreciation curve ( 996 turbo). The game will last as long as developed economies have crazy low interest rates. Great forum and wonderful insights !

 

Thank you and very well said. 

Usually, when I lease my cars, I try to get the best deals only. I do not lease if the lease rates are "normal" and no special deals are available. Take the new Cayenne Turbo. No special lease offer available, 2400 k EUR per month for a car worth around 165k EUR. Sorry but I just can't do it. My upcoming E63 S AMG Edition 1, almost fully loaded with ceramic brakes, costs almost 164k EUR. Lease rate is now 1599 EUR per month. 40000 km for 36 months included.

I pay 890 EUR per month for my 991.2 Carrera GTS convertible for a 12 months (18 months would have been possible as well but I didn't want to because my C63 cab is coming this October) lease. No down payment. All prices incl. 19% VAT. Car is worth 164k EUR or so. OK, it was a special deal to replace my former 991.1 C4 GTS cab but still...

I saw a 299 EUR lease deal for a BMW 235i xDrive lately...almost took it but my Mini JCW lease runs out in October. I pay 300 EUR a month for my Mini JCW, incl. full coverage insurance(!). Car is worth 36k EUR or so...

800 EUR per month for my R8...four year lease, had to make a ridiculously low down payment for such a car (which I cannot discuss here).

All leases are mileage leases, once the lease ends, I give the car back to the dealer and never hear from him again.  Sometimes I even get money back because I didn't drive the full mileage and/or I have some winter wheels left which the dealer could sell. After my Jeep SRT lease, I got back almost 4000 EUR. 

I would be STUPID to buy, sorry to say that.
 

Germany is a LEASE PARADISE for car lovers, you just need to be on the lookout for good deals. Even McLaren had some interesting deals for the 12C and the 570S. Only car brands I never saw really good lease deals at were Ferrari and Lamborghini. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

The Mercs are kicking arse over here in my neck of the woods. You can clearly see that they are selling like hot cakes and thats all their varient's. Problem is, the depreciation on the AMG's is woeful.. Still would like one though .

Feel Porsche is falling behind for sure due to the rise of Mercs.

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

throt:

The Mercs are kicking arse over here in my neck of the woods. You can clearly see that they are selling like hot cakes and thats all their varient's. Problem is, the depreciation on the AMG's is woeful.. Still would like one though .

Feel Porsche is falling behind for sure due to the rise of Mercs.

Mercedes offers good deals, this is probably why. Same goes to BMW. 
People just love good deals...  

Also, if you compare a E63 S to a Panamera Turbo S (performance is similar, E63 S is faster than Turbo), especially price-wise, there is no doubt that the E63 is the better deal here. Quality? Well, a friend has a S63 AMG for over a year now and he loves the quality of the car, the engine seems to be bulletproof. 

Same goes to the new M5: Very good deal.

Now that these cars have AWD, similar to the Panamera, there is no need for the Panamera anymore. Yes, I like the Panamera a lot, especially the interior is amazing but the price difference between the Turbo S and the M5 or E63 S is just insane.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

throt:

The Mercs are kicking arse over here in my neck of the woods. You can clearly see that they are selling like hot cakes and thats all their varient's. Problem is, the depreciation on the AMG's is woeful.. Still would like one though .

Feel Porsche is falling behind for sure due to the rise of Mercs.

Mercedes offers good deals, this is probably why. Same goes to BMW. 
People just love good deals...  

Also, if you compare a E63 S to a Panamera Turbo S (performance is similar, E63 S is faster than Turbo), especially price-wise, there is no doubt that the E63 is the better deal here. Quality? Well, a friend has a S63 AMG for over a year now and he loves the quality of the car, the engine seems to be bulletproof. 

Same goes to the new M5: Very good deal.

Now that these cars have AWD, similar to the Panamera, there is no need for the Panamera anymore. Yes, I like the Panamera a lot, especially the interior is amazing but the price difference between the Turbo S and the M5 or E63 S is just insane.

I get your points and agree.

Panamera is a classy car but maybe thats just it, a bit over the top, for me anyway..Looks like a big long limo, nice to own at first but boredom would get me, quickly.

Going to take a look today or tomorrow at the Mercs at my local dealership. Hoping they have your edition1 on the floor. I know, be lucky if there is one there but do the visit anyway. Want to see what all the fuss is regarding these Mercs, has to be something judging by the volumes of sells around where I am..

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.