Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers
schao
Oct 28, 2005 8:57:35 PM
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RC said:Quote:
schao said:
I suppose my point is that posts trying to posit why either a 911 or Cayman S is clearly superior is bound to be 1) controversial, 2) totally inappropriate as you don't know the intent of any one buyer, 3) simply a waste of a lot of time and bandwith. Let's all take a breather and think before typing.
schao
I think you got the point. I wasn't bashing the Cayman S, I only tried to help people to lower their expectations. And if you read some of the replies in this thread, you'll understand why.
It is not about which car is the "best" one. It is about the best performer handling-wise and straight-line wise. This is a huge difference. And like it or not but I know a lot of people who want to get a Cayman S because they can't afford a 911 but at the same time try to fool themselves, of course with the help of "hooray" forums like Cayman Club, that the Cayman S is at least as "good" as a 997, performance-wise. This is why my evaluation started with plain numbers and not a full driving review. I didn't want to confront those who ordered a Cayman S because they simply like this car and it's concept without dreaming of a 911. I wanted to get a reply from those people who have a completely wrong view about the Cayman S.
And I'm afraid you got it a little bit wrong too: why would a 997 be a weekend plaything but a Cayman S a daily driver? I think both can be very well daily drivers, you should come to Germany and see how many 911 are used on a daily basis, including transporting kids, track fun and even driving through snow and on ice.
If you owned a Modena before, I'm not quite sure I understand how you could be happy with a Cayman S. But anyway: this whole thread isn't about which one is better, I drive all three current Porsche models, why should I buy a car which is worse than the other?! This thread is about fantasy, false expectations, clever marketing, Porsche roots, gossip and facts. To a few people, this thread seems to be the like the decision between life and death. And this is what I don't understand. You have the numbers, you can testdrive a Boxster S and a 997, you have pictures and specs of the Cayman S and some of you maybe even have seen this car in person and sat in it. So where's the reason for being irrational? Strange.
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RC said:Quote:
Chris Lo said:
I had a 996TT and it was a really great car, I drove it to work, shopping and track day. It was almost 100% satisfied me, except it's a bit old now. I love to drive new model so this is one of the reason I ordered a Cayman S. Another reason is this is a 2 seater sport coupe from PORSCHE.
Your statements are somehow confusing. First, you say you owned a 996 Turbo but it was kind of too old(?) and you ordered a Cayman S because it is a 2-seater sport coupe from Porsche. Sounds OK but...then you state in a second post that the 911 doesn't have enough power and if the 997 Turbo doesn't have at least 500 HP, you won't go for it.
Would you please explain? I mean the Turbo isn't powerful enough for you but you go for a Cayman S???
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FTS said:
Hello all,
I think this is my first post here and really like to forums, good job RC, Ron and all the moderators.
close to 20 years ago I drove few porsche's and helped service them as a young kid trying go after my dream: race driver. Working with my hands on THE LEGEND, the 911, was an increadable experience, lusting over them. However, I never got the chance to really improve my driving to my own and other's satisfaction (I seemed to crash a little too often ), and kept rallying with my ahh-it-is-going-to-break-into-half-in-this-corner Renault 12; eventually it actually did and without more funds and more talent I had to quit racing.
20 years and many cars later (I still crash somewhat often), I decided to come back to the Porsche world and ordered a Cayman S. Why you asked, RC:
1a- The emotions of the "Prosche brand", I really did have the 911T poster in my room for years.
1b- I never feel comfortable with a drop-top, it must be the frequent crashes.
1c- I no longer race, just few track events.
2a- I am terribly sensitive, in a bad way, to the pendulm of the 911, not my style, cannot get the car to do what I want.
2b- 997 is exactly $10K more for me
2c- Believe it or not, I feel lost in the 997, too big for me, almost the same feeling as in my 645Ci.
3- never had the chance to own a mid-engine car, let's see how it is.
4a- Cayman is new, different, something to be explored.
4b- Life's boring without some adventure; I may be terribly disappointed with the Cayman, or may just love it. May be I'll go for a 911 someday, but does not seem likely looking from today; even though, it IS the legend.
Oct 29, 2005 2:59:46 PM
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amir sarmad said:
cayman is a rich man's boxster.
Oct 29, 2005 6:18:42 PM
Oct 29, 2005 8:16:50 PM
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amir sarmad said:
cayman is a rich man's boxster.
Oct 29, 2005 9:30:14 PM
Oct 30, 2005 2:17:31 AM
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Fanch said:
You did change your perspective on the 911 line though RC, I remember that when the Cayman was announced, you wrote that Porsche was testing the market to eventually replace the 911, hence the minimal change between the 996 and 997.
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Cookie Monster said:
Hi everybody!
Owning both, i think RC is in a very good position to give his feelings about these cars and what he would prefer for a certain amount of money.
An advice is "only" an advice, but i prefer to get it from an owner than from a salesman!
Oct 30, 2005 2:46:17 PM
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RC said:
German car magazine just tested the Cayman S in their latest issue, here are some of the test results:
0-100 kph in 5.5 sec. (Boxster S: 5.4 sec., 997 CS: 4.7 sec.)
0-160 kph in 12 sec. (Boxster S: 12.4 sec., 997 CS: 10.7 sec.)
0-200 kph in 19.2 sec. (Boxster S: 20.2 sec., 997 CS: 16.6 sec.)
Weight (measured): 1415 kg (Boxster S: 1418 kg without PCCB and 997 Carrera S: 1482 kg)
Cayman S was equipped with PCCB brake!
997 Carrera S was equipped with PASM (standard).
Boxster S was equipped with standard brake.
Slalom 18m: 66.1 kph (Boxster S: 67.9 kph, 997 CS: 66.9 kph)
ISO Handling Test: 140.9 kph (Boxster S: 134.2 kph, 997 CS: 142.4 kph)
High Speed Braking Test (from 190 kph to 0): 128 m (Boxster S without PCCB: 130 m and 997 CS: 129 m)
Guys, I hate to say this but in my opinion, a 997 Carrera for almost the same money would be the better buy.
The car tested in AMS had a price tag of over 81000 Euro, the 997 Carrera is slightly over 76000 Euro over here in Germany and the best thing, you can get it with the 20 mm chassis and the limited slip differential, not to speak about the almost identical weight figure and 30 HP more.
Your choice guys...but I still don't see how the Cayman S fits in between the Boxster S and the 997 Carrera.
The weight WITH PCCB is only 67 kg lighter than the weight of the Carrera S! The difference to a 997 CS with PCCB would be around 47 kg only. Not really impressive.
BTW: AMS made a last comment about the fact that Cayman S owners may have to live with the "smell" driving a "poor man's" 911. Nothing more to say...I'm afraid.
Just for comparison, the test data of the 997 Carrera:
Weight: 1475 kg (standard brake)
0-100 kph: 4.9 sec.
0-160 kph: 11.4 sec.
0-200 kph: 18.1 sec.
Slalom 18m: 66.8 kph
ISO Handling Test: 141.9 kph
Braking from 190 kph to 0: 130 m
Do yourself a favor, buy for almost the same money an almost "naked" 997 Carrera. Not only will you drive the REAL thing, you have more space and sooner or later, you'll want a 911 anyway because Porsche marketing secretly hopes that the Cayman S is some sort of jumping board to upgrade to the 911 sooner or later.
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KenH said:
I really don't understand this thread.
I have a 997, my eleventh Porsche and sixth 911.
It is a wonderful car but it is still a 911.
Porsche might have tamed the way that a rear-engined car handles but ultimately the characteristics are still there.
I have a Cayman S on order and it arrives in about a month.
It is not a replacement for the 997 (the two cars will be on different continents).
I really don't care whether it is a second slower or faster that the 997 on any particular benchmark - what has that got to do with real-world driving on the road?
What does excite me is the possibility (as yet unknown since I have yet to drive a Cayman) that the mid-engined layout of a car with 90% or so of the power of my 997 and equivalent or better torsional rigidity will be more exciting to drive on challenging roads. I don't mean by that that I want the "heart in my mouth" of the old 911s, more the fluidity that one gets when one's mental capabilities match the physical capabilities of the machine.
It remains to be seen whether this will be the case so I wil have to reserve judgement.
But as far as 0-100kph, 0-200kph and so on are concerned they are just numbers and what I (and I think most of us) am looking for is better described as emotion.
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JohnJohn said:
RC: I haven't read through all posts, comments and questions, so someone might have asked this earlier: What size wheels were sitting on the Boxster S and Cayman S test cars?