Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Best buy for your money - Page1

Sep 26, 2003 3:11:24 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

Best buy for your money

Today a good friend surprisingly told me that he considers buying a Porsche. He's not really into sports cars but he wants to fullfill a lifetime dream, to own a Porsche.
He asked me what Porsche I'd buy right now or better: which Porsche would be the "best buy" from a money spending point of view.
He really caught me cold footed, I really didn't know what to answer. Personally, my favorites are the GT3 RS and the new GT2 right now. But these cars are not cheap and I'm not sure this is what my friend wants, especially because he wants to spend a certain amount of money and his wife isn't very happy about it. So it would be a Porsche to own for a "lifetime", or at least 5-6 years...

I thought the whole afternoon about what my friend asked me and I came to a surprising conclusion: the best buy for money at Porsche right now is the current Porsche GT3.
It has the "classic" engine, it is very fast for a normally aspirated engine, it is light, it has class and represents Porsche's racing heritage, it is easy to drive compared to the GT2 and GT3 RS and it should keep a good value even after a few years of ownership.

So I told him to buy a GT3 and he was very surprised about my advise. He thought I'd rather recommend him a 996 C2 or a Cab.

I'm sorry if I bore you with my little story but I put so much thinking into it, I thought it might be worth sharing it with you guys.

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Sep 26, 2003 3:21:39 PM

watt: Rennteam Master; Loc: Way Back In , New Zealand; Posts: 4561, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 27, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Best buy for your money

RC,

GT2 is better price performance here in USA. 140 for anew 02 with 30 miles on it vs 111 for a gt3 w/pccb and xenon... it's not even close IMO... but what do i know

in the UK similar GT2 deals are available, i don't know about Europe

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Sep 26, 2003 3:23:23 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: watt

Re: Best buy for your money

Quote:
RC,

GT2 is better price performance here in USA. 140 for anew 02 with 30 miles on it vs 111 for a gt3 w/pccb and xenon... it's not even close IMO... but what do i know

in the UK similar GT2 deals are available, i don't know about Europe

My friend wants a new Porsche.

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Sep 26, 2003 3:56:03 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Best buy for your money

If it's a car he intends to use all year round any day any time I would say the Turbo is the best buy,but if it's a sports car which he intends to use ocassionally then go for the GT3.

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Sep 26, 2003 10:45:47 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: Best buy for your money

Quote:
If it's a car he intends to use all year round any day any time I would say the Turbo is the best buy,but if it's a sports car which he intends to use ocassionally then go for the GT3.

His daily driver is a Mini Van.

He wants a Porsche to fullfill his childhood dream, just for driving it at the weekend or when he has some spare time left.
I'm afraid he underestimates a little bit the potential of such a car but I'll be there to "help" him.

As I said, his wife isn't very happy about his decision but she doesn't want to interfere with a childhood dream. Now he has the money and he's afraid that in 10 years, he'll be too old.

I should have reminded him of a guy who I know and who bought himself a Hayabusa at age 54 when he entered a massive Midlife Crisis.

He sold the Hayabusa after one year and he's happy he's still alive and that his wife didn't leave him.

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Sep 27, 2003 1:14:39 AM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: watt

Re: Best buy for your money

I agree.

I think Porsche should have made a C2, C2 Cab., GT3 and Turbo. Any way you look at it these three fit the purpose of any porsche lover.

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Sep 27, 2003 4:22:27 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: RC

For a new Porsche, I absolutely agree with you (GT3).

If he was interested in ANY Porsche, I might recommend one of my other favorites (73 Carrera or 993 variant)

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Sep 27, 2003 8:36:33 AM

LG1: Pilot; Loc: Italy; Posts: 433, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Best buy for your money

If he has some knowledge of high performance driving, I too wouldn't hesitate to push him towards a GT3.
On the other hand, even in non Clubsport guise, it isn't everyone's piece of cake, so if he isn't used to real sports cars
you might want to steer him towards a 996C4S, which is gorgeous to look at, safe and a very good value for money...
Ciao

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Sep 27, 2003 8:53:22 AM

RSR: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 79, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 6, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Best buy for your money

If money is an issue, he should go for a Boxster S.

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Sep 27, 2003 8:53:38 AM

Cay: Junior; Loc: Germany; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 10, 2003; Reply to: LG1

Re: Best buy for your money

yes, agree with Luigi - best deal is if you get most fun and a GT3 shows his second face only if you kick him over 5000 rpm and drive him very aggressively. Below 5K you have a better drive in a normal Carrera. My dealer told me that a lot of guys gives the GT3 back after a testdrive with the words: I'm dissapointed about the power, it don`t goes better than a normal one. (cuz they dont know that you have to floor the pedal hardly in this car :-)

And - if you learned how to treat a GT3 and love it you are allways with one leg in jail when you drive in normal street teaffic. One of the main reasons I sold mine :-)

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Sep 27, 2003 2:38:36 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: RSR

Re: Best buy for your money

Quote:
If money is an issue, he should go for a Boxster S.

Money isn't really an issue because he saved some money for his "dream". And he can afford maintenance and insurance cost.

Why not a Boxster S? Again: he wants a 911, the "classic" Porsche. Over here in Germany, the only "real" Porsche is considered to be the 911, all others are actually considered playing in a different league. Might sound a little bit arrogant but this is how things are.

To Luigi (suggesting the C4S): I don't consider the C4S a good buy,mostly because of the M96 engine which isn't actually a "classic" Porsche engine. I'd go for the Turbo instead. But the Turbo is too expensive, my friend doesn't want to put another 30000 Euro or even more into his dream.

Yes, the GT3 isn't really a sport car beginner's car but my friend is a pretty serious guy and I think he can handle it not to drive faster than his own driving capabilities. I'll go with him to a near-by safety track ground where he can train a little bit his skills and I'll help him to adjust to the specific 911 drive feel but I'm pretty sure I'll never see this guy on a race track.

Yes, we might call him a "poser" but he's really nice and I don't blame him wanting to own his childhood dream. Better than somebody buying a Porsche not even knowing how to spell the name.

Regarding buying a 993 or older 911: he wants a new Porsche and I don't blame him for that. I wouldn't put money in an older Porsche unless I'm a real Porsche enthusiast (which he isn't...yet

).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, guys, I really appreciate it.
I put really hours of thinking into this issue and maybe it is a little bit easier for me to make the right decision because I know my friend for years and I somehow pretend to know what he really wants. I also don't want him to come after a year or two and tell me about the 997 and how nice it is.
The GT3 will always stay a special car, no matter how many 997, 998 or new GT3 come out.
Look at the 964 RS, 993 GT, ecetera, how even nowadays people still admire these cars.

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Sep 27, 2003 3:15:37 PM

Cay: Junior; Loc: Germany; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 10, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Best buy for your money

this been the most interesting part of this thread:

>and his wife isn't very happy about it.<

Hmm... why the heck the Girlies allways try to interfear what
men`s need to do? We also don`t care if they waiste tons of bucks for shoes, hairstyle and don`t know what for crap else :-)

So we really need a thread to find a solution for this serious problem that we have our peace and toys!

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Sep 27, 2003 4:55:04 PM

chanh: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 95, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2003; Reply to: Cay

Re: Best buy for your money

I only buy cars inless it = 10 percent of my networth.

So it might not be a good idea, for friend, to get something that expensive, specially when wifey no happy.....

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Sep 27, 2003 5:11:11 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: Cay

Re: Best buy for your money

>and his wife isn't very happy about it.<

You could say I am traditional,but in my opinion a woman should basically do what her husband tells her.
A woman should be provided for economically by her husband and take care of her appearance,the home and raise your children.
That means that I decide what cars to buy and she decides what kitchen appliances she would like.
She should of course always look good and take care of her body.

What really makes me sick is when I hear a woman that speaks in a bossy manner to her Man.

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Sep 27, 2003 6:19:37 PM

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , United States; Posts: 2217, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2003; Reply to: CF

Re: Best buy for your money

Quote:
>and his wife isn't very happy about it.<

You could say I am traditional,but in my opinion a woman should basically do what her husband tells her.
A woman should be provided for economically by her husband and take care of her appearance,the home and raise your children.
That means that I decide what cars to buy and she decides what kitchen appliances she would like.
She should of course always look good and take care of her body.

What really makes me sick is when I hear a woman that speaks in a bossy manner to her Man.

Ha ha, you're damn right CF!

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Sep 28, 2003 4:13:43 AM

Steve in Toronto: Newbie; Loc: Toronto, Canada; Posts: 15, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 7, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: Best buy for your money

CF - nicely put - in my DREAMS!!

Unfortunately, that outlook in Toronto would likely leave one with the palm sisters as the only source of fun!

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Sep 28, 2003 7:25:12 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Steve in Toronto

Re: Best buy for your money

I'd say the Turbo, since it has a bit of the best of all the models: fast, safe, confortable, noble-controlable, versatile. And if he is really into open tops, the the new TTCab, since money isn't an problem

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Sep 28, 2003 8:49:50 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Best buy for your money

Quote:
...since money isn't an problem

Well, paying 30000-50000 Euro more is actually a problem.

But I agree, the Turbo is a very nice daily driver.

My friend today decided to go with the GT3 (not Clubsport!) and we try to get him the rear seats back for his kids (no easy task but should be possible if we get him the normal sport seats, not the racing shells).

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Sep 30, 2003 2:44:28 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Best buy for your money

Quote:
I don't consider the C4S a good buy,mostly because of the M96 engine which isn't actually a "classic" Porsche engine.

Why, RC, is the C4S no classic Porsche? What's the big difference? Thanks for clarifying

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Sep 30, 2003 6:05:56 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Best buy for your money

Quote:

My friend today decided to go with the GT3 (not Clubsport!) and we try to get him the rear seats back for his kids (no easy task but should be possible if we get him the normal sport seats, not the racing shells).

I never even considered that posibility!

I would really like to know if it can be done in the end, that may open up a posibility for a 997GT3 in the future for me when I change the 996 for the 997, and a GT3 would suit me the best if the concept is maintained in the 997 lineup but I still need to get around my only other problem with a GT3; ground clearance, my RoWM030 already slightly scrapes the front lip getting into my garage and many places here in the city

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Sep 30, 2003 8:10:49 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Gauss

Re: Best buy for your money

Quote:
Why, RC, is the C4S no classic Porsche? What's the big difference? Thanks for clarifying

The C4S started with the 993, it was actually a car to satisfy customers who loved the look of the 993 Turbo but didn't like the huge rear wing and didn't need the extra power.
I know most people like big butts but sometimes a more subtle rear has it's advantages.

In my eyes (and this is a pure personal opinion), there are not many "classic" Porsches around: the 911 C2, the 911 Turbo and the "special" race variants GT2, GT3, RS and so on.
But hey, this is just one opinion. I don't want to get misunderstood: the C4S looks great but as BBC's Top Gear TV magazine put it: why go for the fake?

Some like looks, some like technical details. For the money of a 996 C4S, I prefer buying a 996 C2 with powerkit and 30 mm sport suspension.

But again: the C4S looks great, the only "ugly" Porsche to me is the Cayenne (but still a technical masterpiece

).

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Sep 30, 2003 9:02:46 PM

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , United States; Posts: 2217, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Best buy for your money

Quote:
the C4S looks great but as BBC's Top Gear TV magazine put it: why go for the fake?

So this could also apply to Cayenne owners? Why go for the fake....if you don't get the "turbo", then you've got a "fake" one?????

Personally I LOVE the C4S and plan to get one. I also like the Turbo, but I like the clean lines of the C4S. If I could afford 2 cars, I would be very happy with a Cayenne and a C4S

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Sep 30, 2003 10:05:14 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: JP66

Re: Best buy for your money

Quote:
So this could also apply to Cayenne owners? Why go for the fake....if you don't get the "turbo", then you've got a "fake" one?????

Personally I LOVE the C4S and plan to get one. I also like the Turbo, but I like the clean lines of the C4S. If I could afford 2 cars, I would be very happy with a Cayenne and a C4S

Actually, in Germany, the Cayenne Turbo sells very very well, the S not so well. So yes, personally I think that the Cayenne Turbo will take it's place in Porsche history and the S not. That's life.

Clean lines of the C4S? Well, the C4S is a Turbo without the retractable rear wing. I'm not sure if I get your point.
The "problem" with Porsche is always WHY people buy a Porsche. Because of good looks or because of good performance. Most people (especially women

) on the street would probably choose a 996 C2/C4 or even Boxster over the 996 GT3 RS and that's fine with me. Personally however I prefer technical highlights over design highlights.
To give you an example: last Sunday I went with my little daugther to a park. There was some kind of small Porsche gathering and I saw a 911 Speedster and a 964 RS modified to almost 600 HP with a twin-turbo charged engine. Most people were looking at the Speedster, admiring it and it's forms. I was sticking my nose into that 964 RS engine bay, talking to the owner and my little daughter almost started crying because I didn't want to leave. Bad Daddy.

As my father always says: to each it's own but Porsche history shows that some cars don't make it into the "hall of fame". Sad but true, look at the 928, 944 or the very good 968 (I loved the CS version, almost bought one). Of course the C4S isn't a 928 or 944 but only a few Porsche cars make it to "famous status" and I'm not sure the C4S will be among them. However, as I said before: I like how the C4S looks, don't get me wrong.

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Oct 1, 2003 1:53:54 PM

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , United States; Posts: 2217, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Best buy for your money

Quote:
Clean lines of the C4S? Well, the C4S is a Turbo without the retractable rear wing. I'm not sure if I get your point.

It doesn't have the side vents either...I like both, but the C4S looks cleaner, as the Turbo looks tougher.

Quote:
Personally however I prefer technical highlights over design highlights.

So will you be getting an EVO VIII?

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Oct 1, 2003 3:43:11 PM

Cay: Junior; Loc: Germany; Posts: 124, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 10, 2003; Reply to: JP66

Re: Best buy for your money

RC is right with "why go with a fake..."

...and the whole turbolook history confirm that.

Take for example the 964 series - the RS been build aproxm 2200 times, the speedster aproxm. 930 times and the WTL Cab 702 times, the WTL Cope (30years 911) 911 times...

if you checked the market you will see that the WTL Cab is the cheapest one - even if this model been the most expensive one within the 964 series - near on a same level like a REAL 964 3.6 Turbo. The 30 years 911 WTL coupe also have no big value comparing to a speedy or RS. I think the real freaks who are willing to pay 50 grands for a 12 year old classic pursch want a authentic car and a WTL (Werks Turbo Look) allready read in his name what he is - the LOOK from a turbo but he isn`t one. And a "LOOK" is something different than a ORIGINAL.

A WTL is also not a pure 911 C2 - so what a WTL is??? I don`t want one either. It`s nearly the same with the awful trend to convert a C2 or C4 to a GT3 LOOK. Maybe he looks a lill like a GT3 but it isn`t by far. GT3 LOOKS allways get a fine laugh from the audience when they appear at the ring - cuz its not cool to state more outside what you really have inside.

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For a new Porsche, I absolutely agree with you (GT3).

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