Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S? - Page1

Oct 11, 2005 8:13:25 PM

911Carrera05: Newbie; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 40, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 28, 2005

Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

I have had the car for approx. 9 months and love it -- virtually no problems (just a few rattles, squeaks). I'm considering trading it for an '06 911S. Will I notice a big difference in power and torque? My car feels sluggish, especially in 2nd gear. Will I regret the harsh ride going from 18 inch wheels to 19s? One option I definitely need are the auto-dimming mirrors; those SUV headlights in my sideview are terrible during my evening commute. Has anyone driven both models long-term and what are your thoughts?

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Oct 11, 2005 9:09:13 PM

greggr107: Pilot; Loc: San Jose, CA; Posts: 385, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 20, 2005; Reply to: 911Carrera05

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Interesting topic, I have been thinking about doing the same thing. Although I have an '05 Carrera S, and am happy with the car, I am having a real problem living without the full leather interior and adaptive sport seats. I want 'em!! I hear you on the auto-dimming mirrors, that's another option I wish I had, that is so annoying at night, and I live in the land of the SUV's. I am surprised to hear your car feels sluggish in 2nd gear though, it's been awhile since I've driven a base Carrera, I think it was an '03... still had good power. Also, I have the 19" carrera classics on mine, and have no complaints on the ride quality. Good luck, also, is your car a lease or did you purchase? I purchased and know I would take it in the shorts if I trade it in for a new one.

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Oct 11, 2005 9:24:21 PM

911Carrera05: Newbie; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 40, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 28, 2005; Reply to: greggr107

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

I bought it, and expect to come up short on the trade. I'm sure the dealer will knock some off the sticker to make me feel a little better. I've been down this road before when I traded a new SL for the 911. At least this time I'm not changing brands -- very happy with Porsche.

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Oct 11, 2005 9:29:00 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: 911Carrera05

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Quote:
911Carrera05 said:
I have had the car for approx. 9 months and love it -- virtually no problems (just a few rattles, squeaks). I'm considering trading it for an '06 911S. Will I notice a big difference in power and torque? My car feels sluggish, especially in 2nd gear. Will I regret the harsh ride going from 18 inch wheels to 19s? One option I definitely need are the auto-dimming mirrors; those SUV headlights in my sideview are terrible during my evening commute. Has anyone driven both models long-term and what are your thoughts?

How about trading up for the 997TT when it arrives? I'll guarantee it won't feel sluggish in 2nd gear.

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Oct 11, 2005 10:00:06 PM

greggr107: Pilot; Loc: San Jose, CA; Posts: 385, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 20, 2005; Reply to: Turbo Al

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Quote:
Al Pettee said:

How about trading up for the 997TT when it arrives? I'll guarantee it won't feel sluggish in 2nd gear.

Man, you guys are getting me thinking... what was the latest rumor on the 997TT, was it summer '06? Any idea when they can be spec'd?

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Oct 11, 2005 10:10:56 PM

911Carrera05: Newbie; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 40, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 28, 2005; Reply to: greggr107

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

The turbo will be something to look forward to...

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Oct 11, 2005 11:01:20 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: 911Carrera05

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Trust me there is a big difference between the 997 and the S. Performance, sound, handling.....The 3.8 liter engine is a different animal. I just sold an 05 C4S (the last of the 996) with X51 and bought an 06 997S and yes indeed a faster car.

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Oct 11, 2005 11:09:33 PM

911Carrera05: Newbie; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 40, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 28, 2005; Reply to: edz

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

big difference, different animal. Thanks Edz61

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Oct 12, 2005 12:12:27 AM

jonquiljo: Junior; Loc: SF Bay Area - Marin; Posts: 85, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 14, 2005; Reply to: 911Carrera05

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Waiting for one car every year. Boy, thats a lot of waiting! Maybe they will make it faster since you are a regular customer.

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Oct 12, 2005 3:51:40 AM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: jonquiljo

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Of course you should.

This is just what Porsche wants you to want to do.

I drive an '03 996 and I'm all hot and bothered about a 997S right now. Then it'll be a TT or GT3, then there'll be a 998, and so on, and so on . . .

And we think we have free will.

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Oct 12, 2005 4:41:35 AM

greggr107: Pilot; Loc: San Jose, CA; Posts: 385, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 20, 2005; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Quote:
Silver Bullet said:
Of course you should.

This is just what Porsche wants you to want to do.

I drive an '03 996 and I'm all hot and bothered about a 997S right now. Then it'll be a TT or GT3, then there'll be a 998, and so on, and so on . . .

And we think we have free will.

We are all slaves to the Porsche machine! They have us right where they want us, don't they..

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Oct 12, 2005 5:36:37 AM

KiwiCanuck: Co-Pilot; Loc: Canada; Posts: 210, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 14, 2005; Reply to: 911Carrera05

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

I really doubt it. I have a 997 Carrera with PASM and 18in wheels. This follows 7 years with a 1996 NSX. Love the 911 and its extra agility and torque/power. I deliberatly chose 18in as our roads are not great for smoothness -- like many in Canada and US. Over a smooth but lumpy road the PASM is great, but she does NOT like 'expansion' joints or sharp edge/cracks in the road. I am VERY pleased I did NOT take the 19in. Many UK reviews, with roads in places like ours (I get 2 UK mags as well as US Excellence) consider that the 18in is optimum for the 997. Also--the PASM (on either 3.6 or 3.8-S ) has lowered and firmer sports suspension, which although great on the track, also is harsher. Many UK types consider the basic car with 18in and non PASM is THE car for handling and ride (also Excellence says that). Some PASM owners do not like the modestly artificial feel of PASM and prefer a non-active set up. I find the PASM fine, but NEVER can use the sports setting! My 3.6 has GREAT pull in 2nd gear, so I suggest you have the dealer check it! There is modest advantage in torque and power for the 3.8, and only above 100mph does the 3.8 begin to have a perceptable advanteg on the timer --- my 3.6 pulls so hard in 4th and 5th above 100mph, that I do not really need that saved 1-2 seconds on the way to 150mph! The mirror?----- just flip the littel lever at night an forget it until morning ---- Spend a few bucks on air intake, and exhaust along with ECU re programmed and enjoy the car you have! PS Paul Frere who tested them both siad for his money he would take the 3.6. Enjoy is for a year or so until Porsche comes out with another package-Carrera you can really find adifference with ---- KiwiCanuck PPS The NSX is still one hell of a car ---and its ride above 100mph, with the multi valved dampers which lowers the car, is STILL better than the 997/18in/PASM ( it literally glides over raod imperfections), as is the stability with any significant wind. They are both wonderful cars -----

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Oct 12, 2005 10:44:20 AM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: KiwiCanuck

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

I agree with KiwiCanuck. I've been considering this same trade myself and was fortunate enough to go to a Porsche organised track day event for a 1 on 1 demo of the S model. The car had 19" wheels and PCCB's. I have to say that the performance difference between the base model and the S is only really perceptible if you use a stopwatch. The braking performance of the car is phenomenal. We braked from 140mph to 0 in what seemed like a ridiculously small distance with no fuss or drama and in a straight line. The instructor then braked from 100mph without his hands on the wheel and again we pulled up straight. His last demo showed that you can steer the car around an object whilst braqking from these very high speeds and applying full braking effort. It was very impressive. He told me that the PCCB's are great for track work and for keeping the wheels clean but that the standard steel brakes are just as effective. It seems that the tyre's level of grip is the limiting factor on giving the ceramics a stopping distance advantage. My only worry now is that the car stops so well that you'll have to pray it's another 997 behind you if you have to slam on the anchors!

The ride was a little harsher on the 19" wheels with PASM than my 18"/standard suspension set up but not massively so on the drive to and from the track on normal roads. In the end I'm finding it very hard to justify the extra Poundssss to switch based upon the modest performance gain which I can't really use anyway unless I go on a track.

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Oct 12, 2005 12:54:17 PM

eddie: Junior; Loc: uk; Posts: 132, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 5, 2005; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

I just got delivered a 997. I tested both the 997 and the 997S. I did not like PASM at all, and did not feel the 997S to be a quicker car. I have to say, if you don't find your 997 quick enough, than I can't believe the 997S is going to be that different (if at all from a perception point), and you are obviously a TT candidate!

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Oct 12, 2005 2:48:56 PM

Vincenzina: Pilot; Loc: Dubai UAE; Posts: 395, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 12, 2005; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

I have an '06 997. Everyone buys an 'S'. I not impressed w/ 25 HP difference, but all the other features are really cool. but I am not into aluminum guages, a girl thing I guess. My next ride White 997 S Cab with techart all over that baby......Vikki

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Oct 12, 2005 7:43:36 PM

jonquiljo: Junior; Loc: SF Bay Area - Marin; Posts: 85, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 14, 2005; Reply to: Vincenzina

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Quote:
Vincenzina said:Everyone buys an 'S'.

I think its more that people on this board tend to buy an "S". I'd be curious to see what the actual Porsche numbers (997 vs 997S) really are. I have a "base model" 997 - and its far brom being "base".

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Oct 12, 2005 9:54:47 PM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: jonquiljo

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

This is a debate that goes on and on, but I still love it.

The diference in price, after you consider that to be comparable, you'd need to add Bixenon headlamps, 19 inch wheels, and PASM to a C2, is quite reasonable for what I think is a VERY noticeable difference in performance, so I think the C2S is the right choice. The performance difference is not just over 100 mph, but also in any gear over 5000 RPM.

If you don't like PASM - then, at least in NA, you're stuck, though I have heard of others putting a modified suspension on a C2S.

If the ride is too harsh with 19 inch wheels and PASM in normal mode - you're getting the wrong car. Go get a Cadillac. That baby is soft and comfy - softer than 18 inch wheels with the standard suspension on my 996 and on a 997 that I drove.

I agree with others that the fake quad exhaust pipes on the C2S are less attractive than the pipes on the C2, but it's a small price to pay, and they are easily changed.

C2S, all the way.

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Oct 12, 2005 11:27:21 PM

PS CA: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Here is my summary of the differences between the S and non S model that I posted back in March.

There is a $9800 difference between an S and non-S. For that $9800 you get 30HP, larger brakes, Bi-Xenon headlights ($1090), PASM ($1990), 19" wheels ($1550). To purchase the "tuned engine" option for the 996 (which increased HP from 320 to 345) cost $13990. I don't know what the larger brakes cost, but I assume they would be $500+ if you could purchase them. So, in theory, you get $19120 worth of extras for $9800. That is a relative bargain. I have seen many people spec their 997 with 19" wheels, PASM and Bi-Xenon headlights ($4630 total) so they could have got an extra 30 HP and turbo brakes for only $5170.

In addition to the list above you also get these extras on an S: 1. Higher performing cooling pump and an oil/water heat exchanger with two additional cooling layers (Value $?). 2. Self-adjusting clutch (Value $?). 3. Aluminum finished instrument panel dials ($860 value). 4. Sports steering wheel (Value $?). 5. Aluminum look interior trim (Value $?).
I feel the S option is a good deal but only you know whether it is worth it for yourself.

Phil

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Oct 13, 2005 10:52:30 AM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: 911Carrera05

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

If you have extra money, then it seems to be a no brainer decision to go for the S. As Phil has pointed out, it's a great deal. I want one too.
If OTOH the extra money was and is an issue, then maybe you could use the same reasons (excuses??)

I use to make me content with my choice of a non S 997. (Just trying to help here.)
1. The acceleration time and power weight ratio of a 6 speed Base 997 is only very slightly worse (or close, or even better in the case of the Cabriolet S Tip??) to the following cars: C4S, Cabriolet S, C4S Tip, Cabriolet S Tip, C2S Tip. (Someone please correct me if I am wrong.)
Those are all expensive S, and if those fortunate owners are happy with that acceleration time, then so should I.

2. If you DON'T want the PASM, then the base 997 is your only choice. There are some who prefer the non PASM 18" setup of the 997 to either mode (normal--too soft and sports--too stiff) of the 997S. These might just be poor people like me looking for an excuse not to go for the S. But there is some validity to the argument.

3. Although I don't feel the same way, I can't argue with what you feel about 2nd gear "sluggishness". It's what you found. Just want to add that if 2nd gear feels sluggish in the base 997 to you, make sure you test drive the S to confirm the sluggishness is gone.

Quote:
911Carrera05 said:
I have had the car for approx. 9 months and love it -- virtually no problems (just a few rattles, squeaks). I'm considering trading it for an '06 911S. Will I notice a big difference in power and torque? My car feels sluggish, especially in 2nd gear. Will I regret the harsh ride going from 18 inch wheels to 19s? One option I definitely need are the auto-dimming mirrors; those SUV headlights in my sideview are terrible during my evening commute. Has anyone driven both models long-term and what are your thoughts?

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Oct 13, 2005 4:06:10 PM

chipper: Pilot; Loc: Hawai'i; Posts: 400, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 20, 2003; Reply to: 911Carrera05

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Would you please tell me about your ride with the 18's? I have a 2005 Carerra (non S) with 19s and it rides hard. I thinking of ditching the 19s and going back to 18s.

However, if you get the S, I understand that the ride is soft even with the 19s because of PASM.

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Oct 13, 2005 6:59:11 PM

911Carrera05: Newbie; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 40, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 28, 2005; Reply to: chipper

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

I do not notice the ride with the 18s to be harsh at all, but asthetically the 18s don't fill the wheel wells the way the 19s seems to, especially the back portion of the rear fenders.

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Oct 13, 2005 11:33:37 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: chipper

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

I do not find the ride of my non S 18" car to be harsh at all. For me, it strikes the perfect balance between ride and handling. But I think this info is somewhat useless to you because we simply don't have a frame of reference. (What is harsh to you may not be to me.)
I could tell you though, that the ride of the 911 is a lot less harsh than the Honda 2000S (A test drive in this car was what brought me full circle to having a manual shift sports car again.).

Quote:
chipper said:
Would you please tell me about your ride with the 18's? I have a 2005 Carerra (non S) with 19s and it rides hard. I thinking of ditching the 19s and going back to 18s.

However, if you get the S, I understand that the ride is soft even with the 19s because of PASM.

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Oct 14, 2005 8:40:14 AM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: cannga

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

If anyone thinks a 997 on either 18" or 19" wheels is harsh here's what to do. Go to your nearest BMW dealer and take a demo in a Z4 3.0 on 18" wheels as a point of reference. After you've done this trust me, you'll think the 997 rides like a limo in comparison.

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Oct 14, 2005 5:51:09 PM

chipper: Pilot; Loc: Hawai'i; Posts: 400, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 20, 2003; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

The Carrera (non-S) with 19s rides fine on smooth roads. The car has a "planted" very firm feel. On rough roads where blacktop has eroded, the ride becomes very noisy and the car vibrates and rattles. Cracks in the road or potholes create almost a "slam" in the cabin, as if you've hit something. You get jarred.

I've owned 8 Porsches. The Carrera 997 (non-S) with 19s is the roughest riding car of them all, and this includes an RS America. I ordered the Carrera classic wheels because they look cool. I was cautioned that the ride would be harder than the 18s, but went ahead with the 19s anyway because I am not crazy about the look of the stock 18s.

Now I negotiating to buy or trade for the 18s. I may keep the 19s until I'm sure the 18s really make a better ride. I'll miss the good looks of the 19s, but you don't see your wheels when you're driving. The experience of driving the car, for me, is most important.

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Oct 14, 2005 6:04:20 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: chipper

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

>>>I ordered the Carrera classic wheels because they look cool. I was cautioned that the ride would be harder than the 18s, but went ahead with the 19s anyway because I am not crazy about the look of the stock 18s

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the stock 18 the same as the Carrera Classic???

(Unfortunately) I agree with you, the only way to find out is a test drive. Good luck and hope you'll find a solution. I would be interested to hear what you find.

Quote:
chipper said:
The Carrera (non-S) with 19s rides fine on smooth roads. The car has a "planted" very firm feel. On rough roads where blacktop has eroded, the ride becomes very noisy and the car vibrates and rattles. Cracks in the road or potholes create almost a "slam" in the cabin, as if you've hit something. You get jarred.

I've owned 8 Porsches. The Carrera 997 (non-S) with 19s is the roughest riding car of them all, and this includes an RS America. I ordered the Carrera classic wheels because they look cool. I was cautioned that the ride would be harder than the 18s, but went ahead with the 19s anyway because I am not crazy about the look of the stock 18s.

Now I negotiating to buy or trade for the 18s. I may keep the 19s until I'm sure the 18s really make a better ride. I'll miss the good looks of the 19s, but you don't see your wheels when you're driving. The experience of driving the car, for me, is most important.

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Oct 14, 2005 8:26:40 PM

chipper: Pilot; Loc: Hawai'i; Posts: 400, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 20, 2003; Reply to: cannga

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Carrera Classic in the 997 model run I think refers to the 19" Carrera Classic wheels. I believe the stock 18s are called Carrera III or something like that.

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Oct 14, 2005 10:21:52 PM

Patriot: Junior; Loc: Texas; Posts: 111, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 13, 2004; Reply to: chipper

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

YMMV, but here's what I did. Bought well-optioned coupe off showroom floor in February. Financed it at my bank with nothing down. Absolutely loved it. But couldn't resist the cab, so 6 months and 8000 miles later, traded the coupe in for the cab. Dealer paid off my coupe and I stepped into my cab, again putting nothing down - almost as if I drove the coupe for free.

Patriot
'05 Carrera Cab (Arctic Silver/Stone Grey/Black)

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Oct 15, 2005 5:59:54 PM

hellfire99: Newbie; Loc: Seattle, WA, USA; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 10, 2005; Reply to: Patriot

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Last month I got a showroom '06 997 cab with 19" wheels, no PASM. No one I've driven has noted that the ride was harsh unless I pointed it out. I've driven entire days in it and not gotten fatigued. It honestly doesn't feel that much worse than my old boxster, esp. with the top down

(or maybe it means I should be checking my tire pressure...)

Only downside for me is that a couple panels rattle a bit. Love that connected feeling to the road...

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Oct 15, 2005 6:27:35 PM

chipper: Pilot; Loc: Hawai'i; Posts: 400, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 20, 2003; Reply to: hellfire99

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

How are your roads in Seattle? I've found the 19s are fine on a smooth road. It's only when you get on rough, cracked, patched, potholed roads that the ride gets uncomfortable. We've got a lot of poor roads on O'ahu. Maybe that's the difference?

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Oct 15, 2005 7:23:29 PM

hellfire99: Newbie; Loc: Seattle, WA, USA; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 10, 2005; Reply to: chipper

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

It's a mix. For the most part they're pretty rough. Some even have old cobblestone/brick exposed (ok, driving THAT was uncomfortable). It'll get worse over the winter.

I'd also posit that my tolerance for rough rides is still high (esp. with the thrill of the 997 still unfaded

), so of course, YMMV.

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Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

Re: Should I trade my '05 997 for an '06 997S?

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