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    Oct 1, 2005 7:44:48 PM

    Dasein
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    Dasein
    Loc: Mountains of western NC, USA , United States
    Posts: 933, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 19, 2005

    Standard vs. Tiptronic

    First, allow me to apologize to the poster who asked why the person got Tiptronic.
    I feel like I flamed him and I shouldn't have.
    Asking why someone got this or that in that way is kind of like me asking someone who just posted pics of their beautiful new P-car; "Why did you get YELLOW" or "Why did you get GREEN"?
    Just like the transmission, because they WANTED it that way.
    The same question could be asked anyone (like me) getting a Cabriolet, WHY didn't you get the Coupe?
    Because.

    When I was a young man, two things annoyed the heck out of me:
    1.) Seeing a pretty young woman out with a much older man.
    This went against God (or at least against ME if I was dateless that night).
    2.) Seeing any really fine sports car with an automatic transmission.
    This was a travesty and went against the Laws of the Universe!
    Both were "wastes" in their own way I felt back then.
    I'm not that young man any more and I won't be racing my Porsche Cabriolet with Tiptronic when it gets here in November but I will have a blast every time I drive it on these curvy mountain roads. I can promise y'all that.
    And if I get very very lucky one day, I might just be the older man (from #1 above) to make some younger man feel very annoyed.

    Oct 1, 2005 7:58:15 PM

    Derf
    Junior
    Derf
    Loc: Los Angeles
    Posts: 138, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 18, 2005
    Reply to: Dasein

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    I hear what you are saying. I got a standard, but I cannot tell you how many times I've already been asked "is it a stick?" If I got the Tip, which I seriously considered, I probably would have gone off on someone by now. People act like it's somehow less of a car or something and it is very annoying. People get what makes them happy -- as it should be. Hope October goes by fast for you!

    Oct 1, 2005 8:04:51 PM

    LowPolarMoment
    Senior
    LowPolarMoment
    Loc: Boca Raton, FL
    Posts: 725, Gallery
    Registered on: May 22, 2005
    Reply to: Dasein

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    Quote:
    dweiser said:
    When I was a young man, two things annoyed the heck out of me:
    1.) Seeing a pretty young woman out with a much older man.


    Just wait. This starts to make a great deal of sense as you become a much older man.

    Oct 1, 2005 8:20:38 PM

    greggr107
    Pilot
    greggr107
    Loc: San Jose, CA
    Posts: 385, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 20, 2005
    Reply to: LowPolarMoment

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    Quote:
    dweiser said:
    When I was a young man, two things annoyed the heck out of me:
    1.) Seeing a pretty young woman out with a much older man.


    Just wait. This starts to make a great deal of sense as you become a much older man.



    lol guys! It's amazing how perspectives change with a little maturity. I'm 38 and still refuse to grow up

    Oct 1, 2005 9:51:49 PM

    Oxonian
    Pilot
    Oxonian
    Loc: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
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    Registered on: Sep 28, 2005
    Reply to: greggr107

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    An automatic transmission is about convenience. There are some of us who have too many worries; adding a stick will just make life a bit more stressful.

    Driving is supposed to be enjoyable, easy, relaxed and stree-free. That is, when going to work, or to a meeting, or back home, or to a dinner. It's not about racing in a circuit.

    Besides, the tip will always jump ahead of the stick during the first couple of seconds.

    Oct 1, 2005 10:05:22 PM

    997 S Cab
    Junior
    997 S Cab
    Loc: Garden State
    Posts: 74, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 16, 2005
    Reply to: Oxonian

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    I got a tip cab because that is the way I feel I can enjoy the car most. Got the car about 6 weeks ago and only got to put on 880 miles. I only drove it when I could take it out with the top down. The heated seats hopefully will make the topless driving enjoyable a little longer. I am sure this Winter will be longer for me as I long for the topless driving season to return. I enjoy our P-cars in our own different ways.

    Oct 1, 2005 10:48:39 PM

    Silver Bullet
    Veteran
    Silver Bullet
    Loc: Canada
    Posts: 1126, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 24, 2004
    Reply to: 997 S Cab

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    "Driving is supposed to be enjoyable"
    "A tip is about convenience"

    To those who wouldn't dare have a tip, part of the enjoyment of driving is being as involved as possible. Choosing the right gear, shifting gears, matching engine speed to wheel speed, all that is a huge part of the enjoyment. It is a greater challenge.

    The loss in performance, and the less exciting & engaging interface with the machine more than outweigh issues of convenience.

    But of course, we're all different, so to each his/her own.

    Oct 1, 2005 10:54:26 PM

    MMD
    Rennteam VIP
    MMD
    Loc: usa
    Posts: 9652, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 16, 2004
    Reply to: 997 S Cab

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    Just wait! When the 2007 (?)Carrera comes out with Porsche's version of "paddle shifting" your issue (manual vs. auto) is gonna burn on this board like a thousand Suns.

    I orderd my M3 with SMG; I looooove it. The current M3 with SMG software and actuation is probably crude compared to what will come with Carrera.

    It'll be great: perfect lightning fast shifts, perfect rev matching, perfect down shifts, every drop of power is transferred to the road in an instant.

    Ahhhhh..., the only problem I see with it will be the extremely extreme cost of repairs.

    Though I haven't even test driven one, the only reason I wouldn't get a Tip today is because of the HP loss.

    Oct 2, 2005 4:33:41 AM

    DougNY
    Junior
    DougNY
    Loc: New York City
    Posts: 65, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 7, 2005
    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    "Driving is supposed to be enjoyable"

    Yeah, it is. I live in New York City. I weekend in Montauk. Between the city and the Long Island Expressway I spend far too much time in stop and go traffic. I chose the tip because I was realistic as to where I am going to drive it most of the time.

    The tip doesn't change how the car corners when I am on a back road. The tip doesn't change much above 3,000 RPM after a downshift coming out of a turn.

    Just because you have a tip doesn't mean you have less passion or will enjoy the car less.

    Oct 2, 2005 8:57:45 AM

    helios
    Newbie
    helios
    Loc: Japan
    Posts: 22, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 24, 2005
    Reply to: DougNY

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    I wonder how many of those who hate the tipronic have actually driven one. I myself had a quite negative preconception on "the automatic 911". I commmute through heavily congested downtown Tokyo everyday and I am getting sick of driving my 993 with the six-speed. I no longer go to tracks for fast trials because I had a heart surgery 3 years ago. I was actually waiting for the SMG to come till this summer. But it did not come... So I tried out the 911 with the tip for the first time. Well, I was impressed, and placed the order for the Carrera S with the tip on the spot.

    Oct 2, 2005 2:26:36 PM

    khalidaij
    Junior
    khalidaij
    Loc: bahrain
    Posts: 55, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2005
    Reply to: Oxonian

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    Quote:
    Oxonian said:
    Besides, the tip will always jump ahead of the stick during the first couple of seconds.

    lol which driving school did u go to..

    Oct 2, 2005 2:40:06 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: khalidaij

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    I tried both...a manual followed immediately by a tip. The difference is dramatic. The tip may respond quite quickly but to me felt positively slow compared to the manual.

    At the end of the day, it's a personal choice depending upon the degree of driving involvement you want, convenience, the amount of town driving in traffic and numerous other factors...

    Oct 2, 2005 3:11:32 PM

    Silver Bullet
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    Silver Bullet
    Loc: Canada
    Posts: 1126, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 24, 2004
    Reply to: DougNY

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    Quote:
    DougNY said:
    "Driving is supposed to be enjoyable"

    Yeah, it is. I live in New York City. I weekend in Montauk. Between the city and the Long Island Expressway I spend far too much time in stop and go traffic. I chose the tip because I was realistic as to where I am going to drive it most of the time.

    The tip doesn't change how the car corners when I am on a back road. The tip doesn't change much above 3,000 RPM after a downshift coming out of a turn.

    Just because you have a tip doesn't mean you have less passion or will enjoy the car less.



    I don't want to belabor this issue because it has been done to death (and 69bossnine has basically said it all) on this and other forums, but my point was not that one will enjoy the car less if one buys a tip or that tip drivers are necessarily less passionate about the driving experience.

    My point was that one who derives particular enjoyment from the added challenge and greater involvement with the car associated with manual transmission will enjoy the car that much more. Having said that though, we are all different.

    While I would NEVER consider a tip, I respect your decision to do so.

    Oct 2, 2005 3:47:25 PM

    MMD
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    MMD
    Loc: usa
    Posts: 9652, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 16, 2004
    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    After reading this thread, I just can't wait for Porsche's version of SMG to become a reality! (speaking respectfully to you guys)

    Oct 2, 2005 3:57:34 PM

    SVNSVN
    Rennteam Pro
    SVNSVN
    Loc: CA, USA
    Posts: 2994, Gallery
    Registered on: May 22, 2005
    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    Yeah, MMD, I hope we have that choice soon !

    Very well said Silver Bullet!

    Oct 2, 2005 11:12:34 PM

    AJVIP
    Expert
    AJVIP
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    Posts: 1862, Gallery
    Registered on: May 30, 2005
    Reply to: helios

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    Quote:
    helios said:
    I wonder how many of those who hate the tipronic have actually driven one. I myself had a quite negative preconception on "the automatic 911". I commmute through heavily congested downtown Tokyo everyday and I am getting sick of driving my 993 with the six-speed. I no longer go to tracks for fast trials because I had a heart surgery 3 years ago. I was actually waiting for the SMG to come till this summer. But it did not come... So I tried out the 911 with the tip for the first time. Well, I was impressed, and placed the order for the Carrera S with the tip on the spot.



    If you need an automatic, buy a Mercedes

    Oct 3, 2005 12:17:10 AM

    Dasein
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    Dasein
    Loc: Mountains of western NC, USA , United States
    Posts: 933, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 19, 2005
    Reply to: AJVIP

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    I'm from NY, thanks ajcastaneda for reminding me how lucky I am!

    Oct 3, 2005 1:54:59 AM

    Avantgarde
    Senior
    Avantgarde
    Loc: City State
    Posts: 708, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 6, 2005
    Reply to: AJVIP

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    Quote:
    ajcastaneda said:
    If you need an automatic, buy a Mercedes



    But no Mercedes can ever be a tip Porsche too

    Oct 3, 2005 3:51:17 PM

    brownie
    Newbie
    brownie
    Loc: MO USA
    Posts: 23, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 21, 2005
    Reply to: Avantgarde

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    6-speed for me but there are a lot of great sports cars available with auto transmissions incuding the 997. I know that I will be having a knee replacment in the next year and I imagine that it will seriously cramp my fun time in my 997S.

    Oct 3, 2005 7:24:19 PM

    AJVIP
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    AJVIP
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    Reply to: Avantgarde

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    Quote:
    Avant said:
    Quote:
    ajcastaneda said:
    If you need an automatic, buy a Mercedes



    But no Mercedes can ever be a tip Porsche too



    No Mercedes could ever be a Porsche. Done and done.

    Oct 4, 2005 1:45:36 AM

    helios
    Newbie
    helios
    Loc: Japan
    Posts: 22, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 24, 2005
    Reply to: AJVIP

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    You can hate the tip, but not those who drive one. If you did, you'd be the manual shift fundamentalist. Or are you planning a suicidal bomb attack to the tip assembly line at Porsche A.G.?

    Oct 4, 2005 3:34:30 AM

    AJVIP
    Expert
    AJVIP
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    Posts: 1862, Gallery
    Registered on: May 30, 2005
    Reply to: helios

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    Quote:
    helios said:
    You can hate the tip, but not those who drive one. If you did, you'd be the manual shift fundamentalist. Or are you planning a suicidal bomb attack to the tip assembly line at Porsche A.G.?



    I do not approve of the Tip, but have nothing against people that buy one. Hey, whatever floats your boat. If you want a slushbox in a sportscar, be my guest.

    Oct 4, 2005 4:18:35 AM

    helios
    Newbie
    helios
    Loc: Japan
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    Reply to: AJVIP

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic

    You know how much I would miss the 993 with 6-speed box when the new Tip 997S arrives. But I cannot afford to keep the 993 along with the 997S...

    Oct 4, 2005 4:32:43 AM

    JimFlat6
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    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: helios

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic - Porsches Choice

    Most of the Porsches that Porsche drove in his last 25 years were.... automatics and Tiptronics.

    Lots of the current family members drive ..Tiptronics.

    So if you really want to use a appeal to authority argument,
    Porsche has already made their statement.

    Porsche first offered a clutchless manual transmission in 1970 I think. It was called the Sportomatic.

    Tiptronic? Get over it! Theres nothing wrong or bad about it.

    Oct 4, 2005 4:47:36 AM

    Avantgarde
    Senior
    Avantgarde
    Loc: City State
    Posts: 708, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 6, 2005
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic - Porsches Choice

    IMO, Tips are undeniably 'faster' and highly efficient for daily commuting when we do not have to focus on gear selection....just focus on the congested road, traffic, pedestrains, simply point and shoot the car. I believe most Porsche owners buy their rides and spec Tip ultimately for the convenience. Technology has improved so much and there is probably insignificant power lost to the slushbox....that most drivers with insensitive butts cannot tell the difference anyway.

    Oct 4, 2005 5:51:32 AM

    GA997S
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    GA997S
    Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA
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    Reply to: Avantgarde

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic - Porsches Choice

    Quote:
    Avant said:
    ...there is probably insignificant power lost to the slushbox....that most drivers with insensitive butts cannot tell the difference anyway.



    What was I doing wrong?

    I considered a TIP while reading all the advancements... but then I drove one. Correct me if I'm wrong but, Isn't the only way to start off in 1st gear to go into manual shift mode? What a hassle that is to feel adequate off-the-line acceleration. Putting my BMW 540i (sold) in sport mode made a huge difference. Even w/ sport chrono, I was very disappointed in Porsche TIP. I can't figure out how they get the 0-60 times so close to 6-speed.

    I want my car to behave the same way every time I get behind the wheel. Seems like with a TIP, I'd have to keep putting it in manual mode since it changes back to auto after eight seconds of no input from driver. I'm going from memory here and could be off with the exact data. If there was a way to have the TIP satisfy my driving pleasure even close to the manual, then I'm pissed at my salesman for not showing me the correct setting. Well it's way too late now... car due at dealer soon. I hope I don't get tired of changing gears since I've gone so long w/o having to.

    Oct 4, 2005 8:25:29 AM

    Oxonian
    Pilot
    Oxonian
    Loc: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
    Posts: 488, Gallery
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    Reply to: GA997S

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic - Porsches Choice

    Are there any objective Tip tests by magazines that measure 0-60 and other aspects? Please provide links if you have any.

    Oct 4, 2005 8:59:11 AM

    ISUK Offline
    Rennteam Master
    ISUK
    Loc: UK , United Kingdom
    Posts: 4206, Gallery
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    Reply to: Oxonian

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic - Porsches Choice

    One thing I personally find strange about the Tip in the 997 is that you cannot use the stick to select gears when in manual mode. You can do this in the Cayenne so why not the 997? I personally prefer using the stick to change gear in manual mode as opposed to the "buttons" on the wheel which I find less intuitive to use.

    Oct 4, 2005 10:58:13 AM

    Gaz
    Co-Pilot
    Gaz
    Loc: London, England
    Posts: 246, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 4, 2004
    Reply to: GA997S

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic - Porsches Choice

    Quote:
    GA5656 said:
    Quote:
    Avant said:
    ...there is probably insignificant power lost to the slushbox....that most drivers with insensitive butts cannot tell the difference anyway.



    What was I doing wrong?

    I considered a TIP while reading all the advancements... but then I drove one. Correct me if I'm wrong but, Isn't the only way to start off in 1st gear to go into manual shift mode? What a hassle that is to feel adequate off-the-line acceleration. Putting my BMW 540i (sold) in sport mode made a huge difference. Even w/ sport chrono, I was very disappointed in Porsche TIP. I can't figure out how they get the 0-60 times so close to 6-speed.

    I want my car to behave the same way every time I get behind the wheel. Seems like with a TIP, I'd have to keep putting it in manual mode since it changes back to auto after eight seconds of no input from driver. I'm going from memory here and could be off with the exact data. If there was a way to have the TIP satisfy my driving pleasure even close to the manual, then I'm pissed at my salesman for not showing me the correct setting. Well it's way too late now... car due at dealer soon. I hope I don't get tired of changing gears since I've gone so long w/o having to.



    If you're stationary and want to force a launch in 1st gear, just flick the steering wheel switch to select 1st - no need to move the tiptronic selector to M. The car stays in 1st in auto mode. It won't revert to 2nd while the car remains at rest - only once you're at the correct speed for the upshift.

    Also, if you're lauching with masses of throttle, perhaps after being in N for a period of time or when the engine is cold, you'll get first automatically. Sport Chrono also forces this behaviour, and will delay the upshift as long as possible. If you're driving hard (i.e. sudden throttle movements and sharp braking), the accelleration sensors will force this more aggressive mapping and remember you're current style while stationary.

    All this is in the user's manual (P145 of the MY05 guide).

    Oct 4, 2005 11:17:23 AM

    Dasein
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    Dasein
    Loc: Mountains of western NC, USA , United States
    Posts: 933, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 19, 2005
    Reply to: Gaz

    Re: Standard vs. Tiptronic - Porsches Choice

    I have no P-car (yet) and hence no manual to read so allow me to ask this newbie question. Will I have steering wheel shifters/paddles/switch(es) on my 06 997 C4 Tip when it arrives? I know I can (should) ask my salesperson but I've already driven him quite crazy so will ask here.
    Thanks.
     
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