Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Thoughts on this. - Page1

Sep 22, 2005 8:21:11 PM

Derf: Junior; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2005

Thoughts on this.

About a month ago I purchased a used 2005 997 from a Porsche dealer in the midwest. I had the car shipped to me in California. The car arrived with only one key. The prior owner of this car happens to be the owner of the Porsche dealership. The salesman is trying to get the other key from the owner (assuming he has it). I told him that if he can't get it, I expect a new key. He told me that he would help with that, said that they won't agree to pay for it.

I am pretty unhappy about this. Am I expecting too much here? Thanks.

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Sep 22, 2005 8:32:34 PM

tnunnery: Junior; Loc: SF, CA; Posts: 87, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 6, 2004; Reply to: Derf

Re: Thoughts on this.

Expecting too much? Absolutely not!! Get the key. There have been too many horror stories of vanishing vehicles - Porsche and otherwise. You do not want a key to your car floating around somewhere.

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Sep 22, 2005 8:39:22 PM

Turbo 911: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 185, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2005; Reply to: Derf

Re: Thoughts on this.

Get the key obviously - don't let them walk all over you or everyone else will.

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Sep 22, 2005 8:42:59 PM

Derf: Junior; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2005; Reply to: Turbo 911

Re: Thoughts on this.

Yeah. On with Porsche NA now. Check out the email the salesman at the dealer sent to me. I am furious: "I will look into the key issue and get back with you next week. I don't remember saying that I would pay for the other key. I think I said I would look into it and forward the info from parts if we didn't have it. I will look into what I can do, but used cars are just that, used."

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Sep 22, 2005 8:52:05 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Derf

Re: Thoughts on this.

If you bought a new Porsche, they would owe you both keys, of course. Since you bought a used one, I think you're being a bit over-the-top. Things like this kind of come with the territory on used cars, and represent a totally gray area. Extra sets of keys, all the owner's manuals and warranty and tire manuals, all the original paperwork stuff, that's all generally "good if it's there (and it usually is), but you're totally on your own if it's not, welcome to the world of buying used...", as that extra key is peripheral to the car and its general value/use.

Ethically, it's kind of a draw... If they wanted to be nice, they could say, "no problem, we'll take care of it". But if they instead choose to say, "No", well, you don't have a leg to stand on. They don't have to provide you with that key, not even legally I believe, unless it was specified somewhere within an ad, or statement.

Besides, are we to assume that if they had disclosed up-front that they only had one key, and the other was lost, and they were not going to pay for an additional key, or discount the price accordingly.......would you have called off the deal and not bought the car?

If the answer is "yes", then go after them.

If the answer is "no", just pay for a key, and next time you'll ask "it's got both keys with it, right?" I've never thought to ask that question myself before, but with these new car keys being so pricey, it's getting to be a valid thing to ask!! LOL!!

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Sep 22, 2005 9:51:37 PM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Thoughts on this.

What's a new key going to cost? Sounds like their being dicks since they have your money, you're out of state and probably won't be dealing with you again. Unfortunately you don't have any leverage other than threatening to spill the beans about them world wide, over all the P-forums

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Sep 22, 2005 9:59:12 PM

maryokaan: Junior; Loc: istanbul turkey; Posts: 136, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 12, 2005; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: Thoughts on this.

threaten them with returning the car back.anyway you will find another 997

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Sep 22, 2005 10:21:47 PM

Derf: Junior; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2005; Reply to: maryokaan

Re: Thoughts on this.

A call to the manager resulted in the sales guy emailing saying "no need to go over my head" and that he'd price out the cost of the new key and cut me a check for that amount.

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Sep 22, 2005 11:14:03 PM

Trundle_GT3: Veteran; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 1016, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: Derf

Re: Thoughts on this.

Every new Porsche comes with 3 keys.
Two Main Keys.
One Spare Key.

Do not settle for excuses or DEALERSPEAK

You will always wonder where they are

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Sep 22, 2005 11:32:43 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: Trundle_GT3

make no mistake!!!

THINGSARE CLEAR.
your ar is in warranty. and it must be in the program called "porsche pre owned vechicles"this means the car was checked at deaker in 100 aprox. points and found in good condition to sell and remain its waranty.if the deaer sells crap its his problem.
moreover if the 997 belingedto owner,you canclaim intentional fraud.LETTER TO PORSCHE PLUS INFORM THEM ABOUT YOUR INTENTIONS. ALL MANUALS SHOULD BE THERE A WELL

DONT BE A VICTIM.

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Sep 23, 2005 12:40:32 AM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: make no mistake!!!

I didn't get three keys. My salesman said Porsche stopped giving out the flat key. Did I get shafted?

Anyway, I agree, you should get the second key. They can alway deprogram the "lost" one so that your car won't start.

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Sep 23, 2005 12:47:19 AM

Derf: Junior; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2005; Reply to: Texas911

Re: make no mistake!!!

What do you think I should do with this offer to take a check from them (for the cost of getting a new key)? The salesman has become incredibly rude at this point.

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Sep 23, 2005 12:55:54 AM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: Derf

Re: make no mistake!!!

Take the money and run. These days a car can be stolen in a blink of an eye anyway. Rat the b@stard out once you get the dough. Have the guy agree to pay your local dealer that way you get you're key and not come up short. BTW, remind the guy that his bad behavior will not go unnoticed in cyberspace unless he changes his tune.

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Sep 23, 2005 1:01:42 AM

Derf: Junior; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2005; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: make no mistake!!!

Quote:
SrfCity said:
Take the money and run. These days a car can be stolen in a blink of an eye anyway. Rat the [Email]b@stard[/Email] out once you get the dough. Have the guy agree to pay your local dealer that way you get you're key and not come up short. BTW, remind the guy that his bad behavior will not go unnoticed in cyberspace unless he changes his tune.

Thanks. I appreciate the help on this. I've already told Porsche of North America all about it and gave the guy's name to them. Just p*sses me off because it's not what I expect from a high end car dealer, but whatever.

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Sep 23, 2005 2:18:16 AM

John SF 2005 997 S: Senior; Loc: San Francisco CA USA; Posts: 530, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2004; Reply to: Derf

You still get the flat key

I got 2 keys at first when my NEW car was delivered, then I FOUND the FLAT key in the TRUNK with some other stuff like the front lic. plate bracket.... CRAZY.....

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Sep 23, 2005 5:18:41 AM

Patton: Newbie; Loc: Dallas, TX (USA); Posts: 17, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2005; Reply to: Texas911

Re: make no mistake!!!

Even though they can reprogram the new keys (or de-program the old keys) - I believe the old keys could still mechanically open your doors. Not implying this will happen, just a fact. I don't buy the argument about the used car - grey area - buyer beware. You're buying a model year Porsche from a Porsche dealer. Other option, take them to small claims court and explain to the court my argument in the second sentence.

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Sep 23, 2005 2:18:12 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: make no mistake!!!

Geez, you guys are hard-core!!.... Sometimes it's easier to get on with life, than fight trivial battles. But in this case, at least you got what you should have had in the first place.

When businesses are jerk-offs, usually the free-market, or divine intervention, will catch up to them in the end... I always have faith that the dirtbags that I walk away from rather than engage in nitpicking with will always eventually be under my feet in the end anyhow...

Certainly, the dealership was being jerky, on a car that costs so much.

Anyhow, glad you got it settled.

Just in case I lose one, out of curiousity, how much is that extra key costing??

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Sep 23, 2005 2:22:25 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Patton

Re: make no mistake!!!

Quote:
Patton said:
Even though they can reprogram the new keys (or de-program the old keys) - I believe the old keys could still mechanically open your doors. Not implying this will happen, just a fact. I don't buy the argument about the used car - grey area - buyer beware. You're buying a model year Porsche from a Porsche dealer. Other option, take them to small claims court and explain to the court my argument in the second sentence.

Patton,

You do realize that any time you buy a used car, the seller could have a dozen duplicate keys in his kitchen drawer, and you'd never be the wiser.

I don't think any court would side with the buyer on that, there is no certain way to prevent a car from being broken into. If the thief doesn't have a key, a brick through the side window works equally well.... (When you really think about it, if somebody wants to break into your car and steal your stuff, wouldn't you prefer that they DID have a key, rather than entering the old-fashioned way? When I used to park my convertible downtown, I'd always leave it unlocked. I'd rather lose a radar detector, than have a 2-foot slice in my convertible top...)

Furthermore, that dealership has the ability to produce more keys for any car they've sold. If they wanted to be car thieves, handing two or three ceremonial keys to a customer isn't going to slow them down...

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Sep 23, 2005 2:51:55 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: John SF 2005 997 S

Re: You still get the flat key

Derf what happened with the issue finally?

what did you mean with the check thing that the salesperson wanted to give you???

would he pay for the key? or charge it to you?

what actions did you take?

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Sep 23, 2005 2:54:47 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: make no mistake!!!

I got 2 keys and a flat key. No idea what the point of the flat key is. Surely you can't do much with it!..?

If it was my car (new or used) I'd want 2 keys - one to keep back at the house... What if you locked your keys in the trunk? (The trunk auto-locks if you've used the remote to open the trunk when the car was locked).

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Sep 23, 2005 3:02:04 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14174, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: make no mistake!!!

Quote:
wtsnet said:
No idea what the point of the flat key is. Surely you can't do much with it!..?

It's meant to go in you wallet . VERY PRACTICAL, if you loose your key

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Sep 23, 2005 3:14:19 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: make no mistake!!!

997 flat plastic key is the "'valet'" key. In my 04 BMW the flat key is also the "'valet'" key. WTF? A valet key WAS a medium sized BRASS key that had some substance to it. My 03 Boxster DOES have a decent valet key AND a flat key.

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Sep 23, 2005 3:47:22 PM

Stephen: Co-Pilot; Loc: Dallas, TX; Posts: 200, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: MMD

There has got to be reason to deal with a local dealer.

If the dealer had been "across the street" form you, you PROBABLY wouldn't have met such resistance. As it is, somebody else hit the nail on the head. They sold you the car, I would assume, for less than your local dealer was/would be willing to do, knowing that any issues you had would be 1000-1500 miles away from them. Not fun for you, but the Mid-west guys don't care. They got paid.

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Sep 23, 2005 3:56:31 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: Gnil

Re: make no mistake!!!

Quote:
Gnil said:
Quote:
wtsnet said:
No idea what the point of the flat key is. Surely you can't do much with it!..?

It's meant to go in you wallet . VERY PRACTICAL, if you loose your key

Aaah. I see. But I don't use a wallet. Too bulky. You'd have to get the main key from the trunk pretty sharpish to stop the alarm going off, wouldn't you?

I knew it was sort of a valet key, but isn't it just plastic? How does it work the imobiliser? (I must admit, I've never tried it!)

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Sep 23, 2005 4:23:06 PM

Derf: Junior; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2005; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: You still get the flat key

Quote:
Dilinger said:
Derf what happened with the issue finally?

what did you mean with the check thing that the salesperson wanted to give you???

would he pay for the key? or charge it to you?

what actions did you take?

I called the manager of the dealership and left a message explaining the situation. Ten minutes later I got a nasty email from the salesman saying that I didn't have to go above him and "up the ladder" and that he was tired of wasting time on this issue, so he would have parts price out the cost of a new key and send me a check for that amount (and then I will have the key made at local dealer). I need to call my local dealer today and find out what they charge for an extra key to make sure the prices match.

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Sep 23, 2005 4:42:37 PM

esrh1: Newbie; Loc: Atlanta, GA; Posts: 14, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: make no mistake!!!

Picked up my '06 997S in late July and for what it's worth - I received a plastic valet key....

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Sep 23, 2005 5:25:13 PM

AJVIP: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1862, Gallery; Registered on: May 30, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: make no mistake!!!

Quote:
MMD said:
997 flat plastic key is the "'valet'" key. In my 04 BMW the flat key is also the "'valet'" key. WTF? A valet key WAS a medium sized BRASS key that had some substance to it. My 03 Boxster DOES have a decent valet key AND a flat key.

I don't get the purpose of the flat key either. It can still unlock the glove compartment (which valet keys shouldn't be able to do) - and they can still open the trunk once inside the vehicle since there's no manual lock on either of my trunks. Is there something this key can do that I am not aware of?

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Sep 23, 2005 5:30:42 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: AJVIP

Re: make no mistake!!!

THE PLASTIC KEY IS NOT FOR USE. ONLY 1 OR 2 TIMES.
it can brake in the lock, its when you loose your key or to make a new one.

Derf, you bought the car from a dealer or porsche dealer?

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Sep 23, 2005 6:04:35 PM

Derf: Junior; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 18, 2005; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: make no mistake!!!

Quote:
Dilinger said:
THE PLASTIC KEY IS NOT FOR USE. ONLY 1 OR 2 TIMES.
it can brake in the lock, its when you loose your key or to make a new one.

Derf, you bought the car from a dealer or porsche dealer?

A Porsche dealer.

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Sep 23, 2005 10:57:55 PM

Stephen: Co-Pilot; Loc: Dallas, TX; Posts: 200, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: Derf

Re: make no mistake!!!

The plastic key is an emergency key. It is coded to the vehicle just like the metal ones so it can open the doors and start the car in an emergency. The old metal keys could, I believe be fitted to a fob if you want to have the remote functions.

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Thoughts on this.

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make no mistake!!!

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You still get the flat key

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There has got to be reason to deal with a local dealer.

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