Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight line - Page1

Sep 19, 2005 11:20:00 AM

toplad: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 166, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 13, 2004

Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight line

Test drove a boxster S and wasn't impressed with the straight line speed, so discounted it and decided to stick with my 911 (3.4) for the time being. The Cayman has very similar in gear times as my 911.
Information from.www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050913.009/page/1/lang/eng/porsche/1.html|http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050913.009/page/1/lang/eng/porsche/1.html

The engine thus punches out 295 horsepower and 250 foot-pounds of torque, propelling the Cayman S from a standing start to 60 miles per hour (96 km/h) in just 5.1 seconds. The car reaches 99 mph (160 km/h) in a mere 11.7 seconds (11 second for the 911) and gets to 124 mph (200 km/h) in 18.6 seconds (17.9 seconds for the 911). The car eclipses the quarter-mile sprint in 13.6 seconds and achieves a top speed on the test track of nearly 171 mph (275 km/h).
The engine also is strong enough to provide power even to what might be considered "lazier" drivers. For example, while cruising in fifth gear at 50 mph (80 km/h), a driver who wants to make a passing manoeuvre can simply push down on the gas pedal and the Cayman S responds by sprinting to 75 mph (125 km/h) in just 6.6 seconds.

The in gear time is actually better than the 3.4, the 911 taking 7.2 seconds to go from 80 KPH to 125KPH in 5 th, while the Cayman takes less with a time of 6.6 seconds.
Glad I've got one on order now, wasn't sure if it would feel a bit flat after the 911.

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Sep 19, 2005 2:00:28 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight line

I am not sure if that's the case but I could imagine that both engines are quite similiar, the Cayman having some updates on Motronic, Variable Camshafts etc.

The powerfigures might not even be the intention to buy that car for me, it is more about that superb handling. Looking forward to driving one!

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Sep 19, 2005 4:20:27 PM

amjf088: Co-Pilot; Loc: Toronto, Canada , Canada; Posts: 256, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2005; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight line

The Cayman is very decent from a power/straight line point of view. And it is interesting to read the above comparison. That being said, there is no doubt that this car is going to be all about handling, as there are simply too many other choices available with similar or better straight line performance.

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Sep 19, 2005 7:12:54 PM

toplad: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 166, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 13, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight line

Quote:
Ferdie said:
I am not sure if that's the case but I could imagine that both engines are quite similiar, the Cayman having some updates on Motronic, Variable Camshafts etc.

I'm not making this [censored] up fred, check out this website if you find it hard to believe.
http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp

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Sep 20, 2005 4:51:02 AM

Louis: Pilot; Loc: Toronto , Canada; Posts: 409, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 28, 2005; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Quote:
toplad said:

Test drove a boxster S and wasn't impressed with the straight line speed, so discounted it and decided to stick with my 911 (3.4) for the time being. The Cayman has very similar in gear times as my 911.

Well, maybe you should test drive the Cayman S before you get disappointed. According to Porsche the Cayman S is only 0.1 seconds faster to 60mph than the Boxster S. Car and Driver tested the Boxster S and was able to get to 60 in 5.1 seconds (March 2005). If you think that's slow then maybe you should stick with the newer 911's or go with corvette Z06 if you want straight line accerleration

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Sep 20, 2005 6:21:26 AM

toplad: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 166, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 13, 2004; Reply to: Louis

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Quote:
Louis (Toronto) said:
Quote:
toplad said:

Test drove a boxster S and wasn't impressed with the straight line speed, so discounted it and decided to stick with my 911 (3.4) for the time being. The Cayman has very similar in gear times as my 911.

Well, maybe you should test drive the Cayman S before you get disappointed. According to Porsche the Cayman S is only 0.1 seconds faster to 60mph than the Boxster S. Car and Driver tested the Boxster S and was able to get to 60 in 5.1 seconds (March 2005). If you think that's slow then maybe you should stick with the newer 911's or go with corvette Z06 if you want straight line accerleration

0-60 doesn't tell you anything these days; most sports cars do 0-60 in about 6 seconds or less. You'd have to be a half wit just to look a the 0-60 times and base your assessment on that.

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Sep 20, 2005 7:31:15 AM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight line

Quote:
toplad said:

For example, while cruising in fifth gear at 50 mph (80 km/h), a driver who wants to make a passing manoeuvre can simply push down on the gas pedal and the Cayman S responds by sprinting to 75 mph (125 km/h) in just 6.6 seconds.

The in gear time is actually better than the 3.4, the 911 taking 7.2 seconds to go from 80 KPH to 125KPH in 5 th, while the Cayman takes less with a time of 6.6 seconds.
Glad I've got one on order now, wasn't sure if it would feel a bit flat after the 911.

To put things in perspective, the new BMW 330d Touring (231hp/500nm) does 50 mph (80 kph) - 75 mph (120 kph) in 6.7 seconds in fifth gear.
So a 3-series diesel estate will keep up with the Cayman S - at least under in-gear acceleration

BTW: 75 mph = 120 kph
(1 mile = 1.6093 km)

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Sep 20, 2005 9:38:47 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: temm

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight line

Quote:
temm said:
...
So a 3-series diesel estate will keep up with the Cayman S - at least under in-gear acceleration
...

Yeah,

cause the 330d has 500Nm of torque vs. the 3xxNm on the Cayman.

Topload,

the difference between the BoxsterS and the Cayman will also be due to the Variocam system, it was used in the 911 solely so far and provides a much better response.

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Sep 20, 2005 3:52:31 PM

toplad: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 166, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 13, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight line

I know dude

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Sep 20, 2005 3:58:33 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight line

Yes, the Cayman S has similar straight line performance as a 3.4L 996 and also similar to a 1996-98 993 3.6L with Varioram. They all have about the same power/weight ratio, give or take a bit. I think the Cayman has the most aggressive gear ratios...

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Sep 21, 2005 2:25:10 AM

Eurospeed: Junior; Loc: New York; Posts: 101, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight line

I think the Cayman S stats as of now are conservative, as always with Porsche; just like the 987S. We shall see soon enough.

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Sep 22, 2005 12:40:37 AM

Louis: Pilot; Loc: Toronto , Canada; Posts: 409, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 28, 2005; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Quote:
toplad said:

0-60 doesn't tell you anything these days; most sports cars do 0-60 in about 6 seconds or less. You'd have to be a half wit just to look a the 0-60 times and base your assessment on that.

Easy there. No one says that is the only performance number to look at; it is just used for comparison as that is the most common acceleration figure quoted. The only acceleration figures Porsche uses on their official website are the 0-60 times, so they are only used for comparative purposes. It is not the be all and end all of performance numbers. (they indicate Cayman S 0.1 seconds faster to 60 than Boxster S but 0.3 seconds slower than 997). We're all mature here; no need for insults, just facts No need to get insulted, I'm on your side ; you don't buy a Porsche for only staight line performance; the Cayman S is a great car which would run circles around cars costing twice as much. If you're only looking at staight line performance in this price range, look elsewhere (Corvette, SLK 55 AMG , etc) but none in its price range can out-handle the Cayman

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Sep 22, 2005 8:27:45 AM

GR: Senior; Loc: S Bucks, England , United Kingdom; Posts: 779, Gallery; Registered on: May 17, 2005; Reply to: Louis

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

UK website has 0-160kph at 11.7 seconds, more or less halfway between the 987S (12.3) and 997 C2 (11.0). This is a much better stat for the Cayman and shows that it really does lie between the 911 and Boxster

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Sep 22, 2005 1:39:44 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: GR

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Except that it is already admittedly (by Porsche) faster than a 997 on the Ring...

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Sep 22, 2005 4:08:08 PM

toplad: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 166, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 13, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Louis, my reply did read arsey(sp?) than I intended to, apologies.

Trying to say 0-60 doesn't matter with the difference only being a few tenths here or there. 0-125 shows the performance difference much more clearly and I would hope the Cayman sits directly in the middle of the Boxster S and the 911C2 in the 0-125 times. When dealing with cars that do 0-60 in about 5 or 6 seconds the time doesn't give you a true reflection of the motors power, that's why I don't really look at it these days, I know the car I'm buying will do 0-60 in 5 seconds or so.

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Sep 22, 2005 5:00:43 PM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Well actually Porsche did not "admit" that the Cayman was faster than the 997 on the 'ring.
What they said was that a Cayman S with PASM and PCCB was faster than a standard 997 without either of those options.
But we know that a 997 with those options is faster than a standard 997.

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Sep 22, 2005 8:12:27 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: KenH

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Quote:
KenH said:
Well actually Porsche did not "admit" that the Cayman was faster than the 997 on the 'ring.
What they said was that a Cayman S with PASM and PCCB was faster than a standard 997 without either of those options.
But we know that a 997 with those options is faster than a standard 997.

Oh, I don't think I knew that. Thanks for the clarification. I can't imagine that PCCB saves that much time, but I guess PASM is good for a few seconds...

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Sep 22, 2005 8:15:30 PM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

I think that PCCB saves rather more time than PASM (assuming a driver fully able to use its benefits, unlike most of us). Track driving is, after all, what it was designed for.

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Sep 22, 2005 8:43:33 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: KenH

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Quote:
KenH said:
I think that PCCB saves rather more time than PASM (assuming a driver fully able to use its benefits, unlike most of us). Track driving is, after all, what it was designed for.

The benefit of the PCCB is to resist fading after repeated brake applications. One lap of the Ring is not suffiently taxing on the standard steel system to induce significant fade, so PCCB's only advantage on a 1-lap time would be the reduction in unsprung weight which would contribute very slightly to improved lap times via slightly better suspension response and less inertia on acceleration.

Also, I'd have to argue that if PCCB was designed for track driving, why was it adopted by Porsche's race cars years after it was applied to their street cars (and subsequently improved after many premature failures)?

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Sep 23, 2005 1:19:18 AM

Louis: Pilot; Loc: Toronto , Canada; Posts: 409, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 28, 2005; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Quote:
toplad said:
Louis, my reply did read arsey(sp?) than I intended to, apologies.

No worries

I agree with you about the 0-125 numbers.
Cheers!

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Sep 23, 2005 9:02:25 AM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: Louis

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

<the reduction in unsprung weight which would contribute very slightly to improved lap times via slightly better suspension response and less inertia on acceleration.>

Quite. Just what you need to shave a few seconds off a lap time.

<if PCCB was designed for track driving, why was it adopted by Porsche's race cars years after it was applied to their street cars (and subsequently improved after many premature failures)? >

The fact that it took Porsche a long time to get it right (if they have) does not negate the original premise.

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Sep 23, 2005 1:45:35 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: KenH

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Quote:
KenH said:
The fact that it took Porsche a long time to get it right (if they have) does not negate the original premise.

Ken - If you look at Porsche's history, there have been many instances of racing technology that was adapted to their road cars. This is road car technology that was adapted to their racers. That was my main point. it was not developed from their racing program. And I think you're being very optimistic about PCCB contributing to "several seconds" faster Ring time. I'm guessing it's no more than 1.

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Sep 23, 2005 4:27:16 PM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

We could argue for ever about this but I did say "track" and not "racing". I do have absolutely no doubt that PCCB would give an excellent driver more than a 1 second advantage at the 'ring.
However, the original point is the one that matters, the figures often quoted for the 997 and Cayman S are not from the same base point and almost everyone leaves out the caveats that were in the original Porsche press announcement on this topic (namely the differing specifications).
So the answer is probably that we simply do not know which would be faster given more equal specifications.
Since in late November I should be the owner of one of each of these two cars perhaps I should take them both to Germany and find out for myself! Although I have to admit I no longer consider myself to be an excellent track driver.

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Sep 23, 2005 4:33:09 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: KenH

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Ken - I'll look forward to your impressions of your Cayman S and 997. That will be a very interesting comparison

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Sep 26, 2005 9:27:43 PM

Turbo 911: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 185, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2005; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

The Cayman may be as fast as a 911 in a straight line but does it have the unique RR feel of the 911?

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Sep 26, 2005 9:59:01 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Turbo 911

Re: Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight lin

Quote:
Turbo 911 said:
The Cayman may be as fast as a 911 in a straight line but does it have the unique RR feel of the 911?

No, it won't. Some people will find the Cayman's feel to be superior to the 911 and some won't. I suspect most drivers will prefer the Cayman with some diehards preferring the 911...

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Cayman nearly as fast as the 911(3.4) in a straight line

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