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Sep 18, 2005 3:23:05 PM

Stamatis: Newbie; Loc: Athens, Greece; Posts: 21, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2005

Throttle response

I own a 996 Turbo S, Tiptronic transmission.
I have noticed that throttle response can vary enormously, even under exactly similar conditions, i.e. the same gear engaged, the same revs and load on the engine and exactly the same pressure applied to the throttle. Sometimes the engine is extremely responsive to the throttle input, like a racing engine, other times it can feel very sluggish.
1) Is this a Tiptronic thing or does the same occur with a manual gearbox?
2) Can one modify/influence this so that throttle response always stays very responsive, like in a "Sport" mode of some kind?

Stamatis

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Sep 19, 2005 9:37:18 AM

03-turbo911: Pilot; Loc: Bahrain; Posts: 337, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2004; Reply to: Stamatis

Re: Throttle response

I noticed that as well. I'm thinking that, in my case at least, it's down to all the heat and humidity. It's not sluggish, it's feels like it's not as fast and that might be because I'm also getting used to the power. Do you notice your boost gauge when you're on the throttle? It should be reading .8 to .9 with some 1.0 spikes along the way.

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Sep 19, 2005 2:59:35 PM

964C2: Expert; Loc: Dallas, TX , United States; Posts: 1825, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: 03-turbo911

Re: Throttle response

The Tiptronic also adapts to your driving style...if you are light on the throttle, it will upshift at lower revs and also down-shift much less aggressively. If you drive it "harder" it remembers and shifts accordingly. This characteristic of the Tiptronic could make it appear that the car is sluggish and less responsive.

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Sep 19, 2005 3:26:27 PM

Stamatis: Newbie; Loc: Athens, Greece; Posts: 21, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2005; Reply to: 964C2

Re: Throttle response

Quote:
964C2 said:
The Tiptronic also adapts to your driving style...if you are light on the throttle, it will upshift at lower revs and also down-shift much less aggressively. If you drive it "harder" it remembers and shifts accordingly. This characteristic of the Tiptronic could make it appear that the car is sluggish and less responsive.

Yes, the Tiptronic adapts, but not as advertised or as you describe.
I have done 60,000 klm with the car and I never succeeded in forcing the Tiptronic to adapt the mode I wished to use at the very moment I wanted it.
I wish there was a mode selector for us to use, rather than having to be aggressive with the accelerator in order to force a mode change, at times when it simply is not safe to floor the gas pedal! (i.e. traffic in front)
But I agree with you that most probably the phenomenon I describe is due to the Tiptronic being in different modes.

Stamatis

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Sep 19, 2005 3:29:19 PM

Stamatis: Newbie; Loc: Athens, Greece; Posts: 21, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2005; Reply to: 964C2

Re: Throttle response

Quote:
964C2 said:
The Tiptronic also adapts to your driving style...if you are light on the throttle, it will upshift at lower revs and also down-shift much less aggressively. If you drive it "harder" it remembers and shifts accordingly. This characteristic of the Tiptronic could make it appear that the car is sluggish and less responsive.

I must admit I have never seen a 1.0 in the boost indicator.
0.7 and very momentarily 0.8 is the highest I have seen.
And according to the Manual, this is what I am supposed to see. Should I see a 1.0?

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Sep 19, 2005 5:28:37 PM

Statman: Junior; Loc: Boulder, Santa Monica , United States; Posts: 100, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2005; Reply to: Stamatis

Re: Throttle response

Not likely unmodified.

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Sep 19, 2005 6:46:52 PM

LowPolarMoment: Senior; Loc: Boca Raton, FL; Posts: 725, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: Stamatis

Re: Throttle response

Quote:
Stamatis said:
Quote:
964C2 said:
The Tiptronic also adapts to your driving style...if you are light on the throttle, it will upshift at lower revs and also down-shift much less aggressively. If you drive it "harder" it remembers and shifts accordingly. This characteristic of the Tiptronic could make it appear that the car is sluggish and less responsive.

Yes, the Tiptronic adapts, but not as advertised or as you describe.
I have done 60,000 klm with the car and I never succeeded in forcing the Tiptronic to adapt the mode I wished to use at the very moment I wanted it.
I wish there was a mode selector for us to use, rather than having to be aggressive with the accelerator in order to force a mode change..Stamatis

Isn't agressive use of the accelerator in order to change the way the car shifts exactly what Porsche and 964C2 said?

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Sep 19, 2005 9:41:04 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: LowPolarMoment

Re: Throttle response

Quote:
LowPolarMoment said:
Isn't agressive use of the accelerator in order to change the way the car shifts exactly what Porsche and 964C2 said?

The phenomenon described pretty much corresponds to what you expect of an "adaptive" control system like the Tiptronic's.

"Adaptive" means that it adapts progressively to recent "events"; it does not make an immediate "knee-jerk" response to the last input.

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Sep 19, 2005 11:28:03 PM

LowPolarMoment: Senior; Loc: Boca Raton, FL; Posts: 725, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: Throttle response

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
LowPolarMoment said:
Isn't agressive use of the accelerator in order to change the way the car shifts exactly what Porsche and 964C2 said?

The phenomenon described pretty much corresponds to what you expect of an "adaptive" control system like the Tiptronic's.

"Adaptive" means that it adapts progressively to recent "events"; it does not make an immediate "knee-jerk" response to the last input.

Well, I thought it was obvious that's what it meant. If it reprogrammed every 10 seconds it wouldn't accomplish its purpose.

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Sep 20, 2005 1:56:10 AM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Statman

Re: Throttle response

Quote:
Statman said:
Not likely unmodified.

Statman (or anyone),

Do you know if one can achieve higher BAR/PSIa/PSIg readings with the manual vs. Tippy? In my manual TSCab, I can routinely get 0.9BAR in 2nd and 3rd gear at 3,000 to 6,000 rpm's. I drive at about 600 feet ASL on average. If I modded the car to 550HP/780NmT with the RUF package, I wonder what kind of boost I'd get then and, of course, at what risk (not to the warranty, but to the cooling demands

)?

When the 997TT comes (? with the variable geometry turbo), presumably the boost will kick in earlier with the altered impeller mechanics?

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Sep 20, 2005 8:44:35 AM

Stamatis: Newbie; Loc: Athens, Greece; Posts: 21, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2005; Reply to: LowPolarMoment

Re: Throttle response

Quote:
If it reprogrammed every 10 seconds it wouldn't accomplish its purpose.

Personally I would have preferred a mode selector, where by engaging the desired mode, the change in the gear shift mapping is immediate , rather than "adaptive".
Just like the VW Golf GTI's DFG "Sport" mode selector. It does exactly what I would expect of such an automatic gearbox.

Stamatis

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Sep 20, 2005 11:01:31 AM

03-turbo911: Pilot; Loc: Bahrain; Posts: 337, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2004; Reply to: Stamatis

Re: Throttle response

The tiptronic changes modes when it senses that you're either wanting to go slower or faster. I do agree with you that a dedeicated sport setting is prefrebale.

My car is stock and I do see .8 to .9 everytime I mash the throttle. 1.0 comes in quick spikes but that may be due to the humidity that we suffer from here. I'm also running VP 103 octane unleaded race gas because the local octane rating is only 95 octane at best.

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Sep 22, 2005 2:06:29 AM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: 03-turbo911

Re: Throttle response

Any comments re. the accuracy of the digital dial readout of boost pressures?

I hit 1.1 BAR this evening in my TSCab during some spirited driving in 2nd gear up to 75mph after work.

It was a mild evening, 68 degrees F at 8:00pm (20:00).

Is there a standard factory limit on what kind of pressures the K24's can reach with the Bosch Motronic program?

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