Crown

Despite having incompetent leadership in the States with wanton deficit spending and adding to the national debt a trillion dollars every 100 days, the situation is much better here in terms of Corvette pricing.   A similar car to the one you priced north of the 49th parallel costs less than $130,000 USD and that includes the 3LZ trim, front lift, and upgraded wheels.  While many larger dealerships in the cities are asking a markup, it is always possible to find a more rural dealership willing to sell at MSRP. 

spudgun:

I would rather go for an older GT C roadster, I think they look way better than the new SL.

They are drop dead gorgeous, the Coupé as well. The new GT looks bland in comparison.

Not to mention SLS Roadsters are available in this price bracket as well.

1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 1991 Mercedes-Benz 500E / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2022 BMW M5 CS

spudgun:

I would rather go for an older GT C roadster, I think they look way better than the new SL.

They drive like crap  compared to the SL, they do not sound that well, they have no AWD (and serious traction issues), they have worse performance... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Porker:

spudgun:

I would rather go for an older GT C roadster, I think they look way better than the new SL.

They are drop dead gorgeous, the Coupé as well. The new GT looks bland in comparison.

Not to mention SLS Roadsters are available in this price bracket as well.

I love how the new AMG GT looks, I wish AMG would have used the rear lights of the AMG GT for the SL as well.

I like the older AMG GT as well but driving dynamics aren't at par, incl. performance (traction issues), the interior is outdated, no modern tech and if I want to travel, I have to either ask my better half to travel light (tell that to a woman ) or I need to have a second car with me. Not really practical.

Also, why should I lie? I like how the new SL looks a lot. 

The SL is supposed to be a daily driver, not a weekend car.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

I saw a SL today, a SL55 AMG. It looked very nice in shiny deep black. However, in the plethora of M-B sport/convertible models it didn't look particularly special or excessively desirable.

Considering that a relatively low and long-nosed 2+2 cannot be a most practical daily car, I don't think I would buy one over a similar Porsche. Understandably, Mercedes have to give huge discounts (with their own narratives in order to justify the price drop) to move these cars. I don't know how much net margin is left but it is a pity if they don't make much given the engineering they have inputted in these cars.

--

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

reginos:

I saw a SL today, a SL55 AMG. It looked very nice in shiny deep black. However, in the plethora of M-B sport/convertible models it didn't look particularly special or excessively desirable.

Judging by the looks from people I got during various testdrives, I beg to differ. Even my Z4 M40i (matte grey) causes quite a lot of positive reactions when I park it somewhere.

Considering that a relatively low and long-nosed 2+2 cannot be a most practical daily car, I don't think I would buy one over a similar Porsche. Understandably, Mercedes have to give huge discounts (with their own narratives in order to justify the price drop) to move these cars. I don't know how much net margin is left but it is a pity if they don't make much given the engineering they have inputted in these cars.

It is a practical car, same as my Z40 M40i. Try it, you'd be surprised. You can fit two large(!) suitcases in the rear of the SL63, which makes it an excellent travel car as well. Parking is quite easy too because visibility has been much improved over the predecessor AMG GT Roadster.

The SL actually sells quite well (number 8 on the sportscar sales chart) but the price is too high to be a bestseller and Mercedes, in their enthusiasm, produced too many SL without orders. They just started to reduce production this year, also because of the new AMG GT. There is another issue here: Due to the high price and the very powerful engine, insurance isn't cheap (or possible for some drivers even!) for the car. It is actually the same insurance price as my Huracan Performante, which was quite shocking. I was able to shove off 700 EUR after threatening my insurance that I would go to a different insurer but still...quite expensive.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Don't get me wrong the SL is a nice car. And I take your word for its practicality.

Nevertheless, price and running costs are of paramount importance in the SL class and in the Mercedes class in general for the potential customer. Is the SL expensive because it costs a lot to produce or because Mercedes in their optimism thought their product would be in high demand anyway? We wouldn't know.

Also I believe that if the offer of the  4C 43 is a bad decision This engine is superb for the buyer of A class but not for the more discerning customer. If there was a nice 6C SL for the same price, many more customers would be attracted. Priced much below the V8s and cheaper than most 911s.

--

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

reginos:

Don't get me wrong the SL is a nice car. And I take your word for its practicality.

I didn't get you wrong.  I testdrove it a couple of times and it really is a very good daily driver.

Nevertheless, price and running costs are of paramount importance in the SL class and in the Mercedes class in general for the potential customer. Is the SL expensive because it costs a lot to produce or because Mercedes in their optimism thought their product would be in high demand anyway? We wouldn't know.

Price is insane...if you pay MSRP. Running cost is OK (maintenance is affordable, fuel consumption not so much if you floor it  and insurance cost is also surprisingly high). I think that Mercedes was very optimistic about this car in the beginning and it sold over MSRP for a short while but then inflation came AND the typical SL customer didn't like this car and the typical sportscar customer often doesn't consider it because, let's be honest here, it is more expensive (MSRP) than a Porsche 911 Carrera GTS. 

I was lucky to be able to get a very good offer but at MSRP and the usual lease rates Mercedes is asking, I wouldn't have considered it to be honest.

Also I believe that if the offer of the  4C 43 is a bad decision This engine is superb for the buyer of A class but not for the more discerning customer. If there was a nice 6C SL for the same price, many more customers would be attracted. Priced much below the V8s and cheaper than most 911s.

The SL43 is a joke in my opinion but they needed a car for those who don't want to spend a lot of money for a car like the SL. Interesting enough, I heard that this engine had some issues  in the SL. 

CGX car nut:

Despite having incompetent leadership in the States with wanton deficit spending and adding to the national debt a trillion dollars every 100 days, the situation is much better here in terms of Corvette pricing.   A similar car to the one you priced north of the 49th parallel costs less than $130,000 USD and that includes the 3LZ trim, front lift, and upgraded wheels.  While many larger dealerships in the cities are asking a markup, it is always possible to find a more rural dealership willing to sell at MSRP. 

With the current exchange rate, $130k US is $175k CAD. 

Actually this tells you how good a deal I got for my SL63. I paid less than $175k CAD for the car, which I believe MSRP at $178k US before options. 

Whoopsy:

CGX car nut:

Despite having incompetent leadership in the States with wanton deficit spending and adding to the national debt a trillion dollars every 100 days, the situation is much better here in terms of Corvette pricing.   A similar car to the one you priced north of the 49th parallel costs less than $130,000 USD and that includes the 3LZ trim, front lift, and upgraded wheels.  While many larger dealerships in the cities are asking a markup, it is always possible to find a more rural dealership willing to sell at MSRP. 

 

With the current exchange rate, $130k US is $175k CAD. 

Actually this tells you how good a deal I got for my SL63. I paid less than $175k CAD for the car, which I believe MSRP at $178k US before options. 

130k USD is actually the "right" price for this car and it is worth every penny. The SL is not a car for over 200k, this just doesn't work, even if it seems that there are many customers who paid those prices in the beginning.

I think Mercedes realized that their prices were too high, the new SL63 E Performance is actually (almost) priced "right" in my opinion.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

With many Corvette variants going for more than the MSRP, one wonders which car, the Corvette or the SL, is the real luxury product. Discounting is not synonymous with luxury goods. 

Talking about dumb ideas. Porsche isn't immune to that, 992.2 will be mild hybrids like the E-Ray and Prius. 

And about the SL vs Corvette. The choice is simple, paying more to get a lesser product or buying a better product for less. 

I love the new Corvette, still wanted one, but the pricing is out of whack for the e-Ray. Heck the Z06 is already stretching it however. 

Check with your contacts again at Porsche.  The 992.2 will have mild hybrid version and another variant that is more akin to the Prius Prime and Corvette e-ray.  Car & Driver is only one of many sources stating what was discussed during the 2023 financial annual report conference held a couple of days ago. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46167074/2025-porsche-911-preview/

Corvette e-Ray is a mild hybrid. Same with 992.2. Prius Prime is the plugin one, regular Prius are mild hybrids. 

Mild hybrids is the category for hybrids that cannot be charged from the wall. 

Plugin hybrids is the category that can be charged from the wall. Cayenne, Panamera hybrids are the plugins. 

That’s quite the stretch for the definition of a mild hybrid.  The architecture of the Corvette e-ray is similar to the performance hybrid architectures found on the Ferrari SF90 and 296, McLaren Artura, Lamborghini Revuelto, and soon the special 992.2 performance hybrid variant. The e-ray can be driven albeit for a short distance on its electric motors alone.  It is not like the mild hybrid systems that are found on many cars including most Volkswagen Group products with 24v and 48v hybrid systems. 

What stretch? Mild hybrid's definition IS a hybrid that cannot be charge up from the wall. 

Some mild hybrids can be driven on electric alone, some can't, but they are all mild hybrids. There isn't a second definition to differentiate them. 

The other form of hybrid is the plugin hybrids, that can be charged up from the wall. Btw, the SF90, the 296 and the Artura you named as examples are all plugin hybrids. So is the incoming Lamborghini Revuelto. 

As for performance hybrid, that term was drummed up by Porsche for the 918, to differentiate it from the 'normal' hybrid Prius that most people were associating with 'hybrids'. Up until then, no one thought of using electricity to boost performance, they were only used for fuel economy. It really isn't a different category outside of mild hybrid or plugin hybrid, either case can be a performance hybrid. The plugin hybrids like 918, Panamera turbo S are performance hybrids, The e-Ray, the incoming 992.2 will be mild hybrids that's also performance hybrids, using electricity to boost performance. 

Ferrari, McLaren Lamborghini are smart, with their offerings being full plugin hybrids, their cars do qualify for some government benefits as most governments classify plugin hybrids in the same category as EVs, while mild hybrids are considered normal cars. While the cars are too expensive for tax credits, HOV access and/or except from congestion fees are very attractive. These benefits aren't offered to mild hybrids. 

You are confusing mild hybrid with full hybrid.  The new crop of performance cars, including the Corvette e-ray and one variant of the upcoming 992.2 are defined as full hybrids but designed to improve performance, not fuel economy overall.  However, Porsche is also introducing mild hybrid 992.2 models too. Please read the attached link on the differences in hybrid technologies. https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/types-of-electric-vehicles-mild-hybrid-hybrid-plug-in-hybrid-and-electric

Thank you! You did all the hardwork of proofing my point! From your quote:

• Mild hybrids do not need recharging.
• Hybrids do not need recharging.
• Plug-in hybrids need recharging only if you plan to drive them purely on electricity. Otherwise, they work like a hybrid.
• Electric vehicles always need recharging.

 

e-Ray, 992.2 do not need recharging, that's point 1, right off the bat.

Hybrid. That term was coined when the first Prius appeared. It has both gasoline and electric motors, that's the hybrid part. Cars with both drivetrains are called hybrid period. There was no distinction between mild or plugin, as plugin didn't exist yet.

After BYD got the first plugin hybrid to market, it was separate into plugin and mild. That's it, 2 categories. Nothing more. Everything else, like 'performance hybrid' is just a term, not a proper category.

There isn't also a proper 'full-hybrid' category. By default, all hybrids ARE full-hybrid. They are hybrid in their power delivery so they are all 'full hybrid'. You don't call a petro powered car 'full petrol' do you? And how you engineer a 'half' hybrid if you want to separate something to be called 'full' hybrid? Like, a car can only be powered either by the gas engine or the electric motor but not both at the same time? 

Like, seriously, just stop. Zuffenhausen themselves used the term mild hybrid to communicate with me regarding their incoming. I have the target spec already and was asked if I would be interested in something like that, and my answer to them is no, they need to add the plugin capability first before getting my interest. It is a very very important attribute for a 'hybrid' car. I was like, do they want to be like the lowly Corvette or the Ferrari 296? 

CGX car nut:

With many Corvette variants going for more than the MSRP, one wonders which car, the Corvette or the SL, is the real luxury product. Discounting is not synonymous with luxury goods. 

In Germany, you can get many cars at a discount. I was offered last autumn a GT4 RS production slot for April without even asking.  Europe has a different car market, a car market enthusiasts in the US or Dubai can only dream of.
So many discounted cars at very interesting prices, just amazing and it has nothing to do with being a luxury good or not. Used car prices are even lower, some very good deals to make if you are interested in certain cars, with a few exceptions. 

992.2 facelift is due this summer...and yes, it is going to be a mild hybrid.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Heard a stupid rumor today, not sure how true it is because I haven't read anything about this anywhere but apparently the is going to be a SL53 E Performance (similar to the new E53) and it will replace the current V8 Biturbo. The SL63 E Performance stays. If true, I am really lucky because there is NO WAY I would have gone for a 6-Zyl. SL53. 

Mercedes is slowly dismantling their AMG brand in my opinion. I get it, new emissions laws and they probably think they (Mercedes) can do what BMW is doing with the M3/M4 and that 6-Zyl. but I think Mercedes AMG is wrong. Without that infamous V8 sound, AMG is done in my opinion.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

Well, my SL63 arrived at the local dealership, earlier than expected. I thought I can pick it up tomorrow but unfortunately the dealership needs to check the car, to clean it, to prepare it and to register it, so I'm getting it in a WEEK...next Thursday. Bummer.   I don't know what takes the (very large!) dealership that long but I need to accept it, there is no earlier date available. My sales guy promised to send a few pics whenever he gets to see the car, so maybe...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

What does mild hybrid mean? In essence a mild hybrid is simply a conventional petrol or diesel engine with a low voltage (48V) battery and an electric motor which is typically used to power electric components such as air conditioning and the radio.

What is the difference between a hybrid and a mild hybrid? The main difference is that while a normal hybrid car can run on electric power alone, a mild hybrid cannot. The mild hybrid system just works alongside the petrol engine to provide a boost of performance and economy.

There is no try. Just do.

Full hybrid is a new term coined to differentiate mild hybrid cars that can be driven on battery alone vs mild hybrid cars that cannot. Not unlike the term CUV vs SUV, still an SUV at heart but wanted to stress the crossover part. 

In government terms, there is only plugin hybrids and then the others, doesn't matter the term used. Plugin hybrids re treated the same as EVs, while the others are treated like any other normal petro cars. Benefits that applies to EVs are also applies to plugins but not the others. Make sense as mild hybrids can only gets it's power from petro, while plugins can get it from the wall like any other EVs. 

My province here draws a clear line separating plugins from the others. 

RC:

Heard a stupid rumor today, not sure how true it is because I haven't read anything about this anywhere but apparently the is going to be a SL53 E Performance (similar to the new E53) and it will replace the current V8 Biturbo. The SL63 E Performance stays. If true, I am really lucky because there is NO WAY I would have gone for a 6-Zyl. SL53. 

Mercedes is slowly dismantling their AMG brand in my opinion. I get it, new emissions laws and they probably think they (Mercedes) can do what BMW is doing with the M3/M4 and that 6-Zyl. but I think Mercedes AMG is wrong. Without that infamous V8 sound, AMG is done in my opinion.

To be fair, the original SL did have a Inline 6..........

Whoopsy:

Full hybrid is a new term coined to differentiate mild hybrid cars that can be driven on battery alone vs mild hybrid cars that cannot. Not unlike the term CUV vs SUV, still an SUV at heart but wanted to stress the crossover part. 

In government terms, there is only plugin hybrids and then the others, doesn't matter the term used. Plugin hybrids re treated the same as EVs, while the others are treated like any other normal petro cars. Benefits that applies to EVs are also applies to plugins but not the others. Make sense as mild hybrids can only gets it's power from petro, while plugins can get it from the wall like any other EVs. 

My province here draws a clear line separating plugins from the others. 

Stop parsing in an attempt to dig yourself out of the hole you have created.  Full hybrid is not a new term as it predates mild hybrid.  The term full hybrid is almost thirty years, if not longer, in use.  Mild hybrid has been used by the major automakers for around twenty years to describe systems that include an electric boost mode within the stop-start system.  

CGX car nut:

Whoopsy:

Full hybrid is a new term coined to differentiate mild hybrid cars that can be driven on battery alone vs mild hybrid cars that cannot. Not unlike the term CUV vs SUV, still an SUV at heart but wanted to stress the crossover part. 

In government terms, there is only plugin hybrids and then the others, doesn't matter the term used. Plugin hybrids re treated the same as EVs, while the others are treated like any other normal petro cars. Benefits that applies to EVs are also applies to plugins but not the others. Make sense as mild hybrids can only gets it's power from petro, while plugins can get it from the wall like any other EVs. 

My province here draws a clear line separating plugins from the others. 

Stop parsing in an attempt to dig yourself out of the hole you have created.  Full hybrid is not a new term as it predates mild hybrid.  The term full hybrid is almost thirty years, if not longer, in use.  Mild hybrid has been used by the major automakers for around twenty years to describe systems that include an electric boost mode within the stop-start system.  

Actually, hybrids were called...hybrids...not full hybrids. So I guess you are both right, in a way. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

RC:

CGX car nut:

Whoopsy:

Full hybrid is a new term coined to differentiate mild hybrid cars that can be driven on battery alone vs mild hybrid cars that cannot. Not unlike the term CUV vs SUV, still an SUV at heart but wanted to stress the crossover part. 

In government terms, there is only plugin hybrids and then the others, doesn't matter the term used. Plugin hybrids re treated the same as EVs, while the others are treated like any other normal petro cars. Benefits that applies to EVs are also applies to plugins but not the others. Make sense as mild hybrids can only gets it's power from petro, while plugins can get it from the wall like any other EVs. 

My province here draws a clear line separating plugins from the others. 

Stop parsing in an attempt to dig yourself out of the hole you have created.  Full hybrid is not a new term as it predates mild hybrid.  The term full hybrid is almost thirty years, if not longer, in use.  Mild hybrid has been used by the major automakers for around twenty years to describe systems that include an electric boost mode within the stop-start system.  

Actually, hybrids were called...hybrids...not full hybrids. So I guess you are both right, in a way. 

To the layman yes but for regulations at the manufacturing and governmental levels no.  Recall this lengthy discourse began when someone wanting to call the Corvette e-ray a mild hybrid not a (full) hybrid when that simply isn’t true. 

Good way to kill a thread. 👌🏼 

997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

spudgun:

Good way to kill a thread. 👌🏼 

Yes.  Can we please bring it back to RC's R8 forever car?

waiting for PDK:

spudgun:

Good way to kill a thread. 👌🏼 

Yes.  Can we please bring it back to RC's R8 forever car?

Think of it as filler until Christian posts a full review and images of his new SL63.