Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS? - Page1

Sep 7, 2005 3:52:08 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004

Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

I've got 1500 miles on the car and have been experimenting getting near redline. Actually nothing over 6000. BTW, that drop in power at 5000 bothers me.

I'm sorry to report I'm not satisfied by the "projected" (that is, after breakin and redline) HP in the car. I fully admit I don't know how to drive the thing yet (My BoxterS is sooooo much easier to max out on curves).

Anyway, as far as raw HP is concerned, compared to my 04 M3 the Carrera S isn't that big a deal yet. It seems to underperform (M3 has 333hp).

What am I doing wrong? Do I need driving instruction?

Most of all: Do you think we should Dyno our cars to see of they put out the advertised HP? What do we do if they don't? What will Porsche do if you have a 330 hp engine that's supposed to put out 355?

Forgot to say I'm very happy with the rest of the car.

It's just the HP which I'm wondering about above.

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Sep 7, 2005 3:57:04 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

MMD,

Have you considered which octane fuel you are using? Honestly, I find such a big difference from one octane level to another and from one brand to another.

I use Shell Optimax. I think it's called V Power in some countries. It's guaranteed 98.5 octane. If you fill with that, you may notice a performance difference...

Why not go on a Porsche Driving Experience day? You may learn how to get the most our of your new jewel...

Sorry if I've been stating the obvious...just my 2 cents worth...sometimes the simplest answer is right in front of one's face!

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Sep 7, 2005 3:58:15 PM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

The car isn't even broken in yet. Wait till then and than tell us what you think. The harder it's run the better it performs.

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Sep 7, 2005 4:03:42 PM

19th hole: Junior; Loc: on a golf course somewhere.... , United States; Posts: 61, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 17, 2004; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

I'm surprised to hear that you think the M3 was a comparible auto. I had a 2003 M3 before my non-S 997. While the M3 had 8 more HP, the torque curve was not as broad and the response of the 997 is much better (IMO). Wait a few thousand more miles, I think that you will see a difference.

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Sep 7, 2005 4:11:24 PM

John SF 2005 997 S: Senior; Loc: San Francisco CA USA; Posts: 530, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2004; Reply to: 19th hole

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Are you tracking the car ? Otherwise I don't understand how you could even be complaining about it? Where do you use the 355 HP on the street? I find my car is plenty fast....

But to each his own !!

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Sep 7, 2005 4:15:51 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: 19th hole

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Sounds like you are not comfortable with the car yet. Its not a front engine M3 and its not a mid engine Boxster so its alien feeling to you because of the rear weight bias.

Your worry about its "projected" hp is misplaced. You need to get to know the car better and how power,rear weight bias and its staggeringly high traction can be exploited. Until you know that, you are probably unwittingly using only a fraction of the cars potential.

Take a performance driving course, get educated and once you are, you will know that the 997s limits are so high they are unusable in US street driving conditions.

Dont worry, You are just new to 911's

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Sep 7, 2005 4:24:30 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

This is my first sports car in the last 5 that doesn't have at least 400hp.
2002 M5 -400hp
2002 Viper -450hp
2002 Porsche Turbo -420hp.
2004 Ferrari CS- 425hp

I love the car, the handling the ease to drive, the overall feeling etc. but I have to admit it feels it's a little light in the power department.
Put your deposit down for the Turbo. Imagine another 130hp ? That should be enough.

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Sep 7, 2005 4:26:11 PM

Trundle_GT3: Veteran; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 1016, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Quote:
MMD said:

Most of all: Do you think we should Dyno our cars to see of they put out the advertised HP? What do we do if they don't? What will Porsche do if you have a 330 hp engine that's supposed to put out 355?

A the factory each engine is assembled for each car.
After the engine is assembled, they are filled with fluids and sent to the dyno room to assure that they meet minimum advertised HP. This is a documented figure and is part of the permanent records for this particular autos build.

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Sep 7, 2005 4:26:35 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: John SF 2005 997 S

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

"Where do you use the 355 HP on the street?"

On the way into work today at least a dozen times.

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Sep 7, 2005 4:37:04 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

MMD - This is the problem, I think. You are not redlining the car and this compromises performance in two significant ways:

1: The S makes it's peak power close to 7k revs.

2: Unless you shift at redline (7,200rpm), you will be landing at a lower than optimum rpm in the next gear - compounding the problem.

Try shifting at redline (once the break-in is done - or now if you believe those who say it doesn't matter). You'll get full power and then hit the next gear with full torque. The M3 has lower/closer gears so short-shifting is not as noticable with that car...

Also, the motor will run stronger once it's got more miles on it (and you redline it a bunch more often)

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Sep 7, 2005 4:54:56 PM

krC2S: Junior; Loc: Boston,USA; Posts: 122, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 30, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

do u feel the car is not going through revs quick enough?
the car will not be brathing right untill u drive it hard for a few hundred miles: go through revs smoothly all the way and also hold it around certain rpm's for some time too
before u start flooring it (on a given ride)

i am coming from an M3 too though not an overwhelming difference the torque curve is much better

handling and feel are a different story

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Sep 7, 2005 5:02:52 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

I think he was commenting based on the overall power of the car not just at red-line. I agree with him. It could especially use more low RPM power. When I'm above 5500 it's quick enough (even though I'm use to & I'd like more). But when at 2000/3000 it can feel sluggish.

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Sep 7, 2005 5:29:52 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

"The drop in power at 5,000 rpm"??? The only way you feel a power lag or fall-off, is if you're going past 5,000 rpm with too little throttle, such that the valve timing and lift is far more aggressive and heavy-breathing than the amount of air and fuel you're supplying through the gas pedal. The car will fall on its face in that scenario, and it's driver error. In short, (and I mean this as politely as possible

), quit driving it like a weenie!!!!

Go get in your car, start it, get it warm, and then plant your right foot firmly on the floor, and speed shift at 7,200 through all the way to fourth gear.

Then, come back and sit down in front of the computer and share your thoughts.

The 997S really comes alive right at the top of the tach, it lets out one last glorious shriek between 6,000 and 7,200. I'm surprised you've never visited there.

Hey, I was one of the 1st ones to say that the car is no King Kong by any stretch. But it's every last bit of 355 h.p., if not more. But to really make it pull to its potential, you've got to drive it where it makes it's power. Grant is spot-on.

You're soft-pedalling the gas
You're shifting too early
You're dropping out of the good torque range with every shift.

BMW flat sixes deliver much more linear power.

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Sep 7, 2005 7:45:07 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Quote:
MMD said:
Anyway, as far as raw HP is concerned, compared to my 04 M3 the Carrera S isn't that big a deal yet. It seems to underperform (M3 has 333hp).

What am I doing wrong? Do I need driving instruction?

What you're doing wrong is probably that you're not watching your speedo enough!

When I drove a 997 S for the first time, coming from a 996 as a daily driver, I was a little disappointed with the level of performance - until I looked at the speedo and probably turned pale on realising the extent I was risking my driver's license.

The level of "refinement" of the 997 is so high that you are subjectively not aware of the level of performance to the same extent as you might be in another car.

I have driven an M3 CSL, and remember it as having been laid out to impress the "boy racer" type of driver, that is, performance was obvious at the expense of - or due to lack of - refinement.

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Sep 7, 2005 10:46:29 PM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

another thing MMD, are you at sea level?

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Sep 7, 2005 10:51:22 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Mike S

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Quote:
Mike S said:
another thing MMD, are you at sea level?

An important point, but it shouldn't matter when relatively comparing to the M3...

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Sep 7, 2005 11:29:15 PM

Flashman: Co-Pilot; Loc: USA North Carolina , United States; Posts: 252, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 30, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Sounds odd. I had an M3 for a few years (01 model) and I always thought it was too peaky in power delivery lacking any low down torque. Great on cam, lethargic below about 3500-4k rpm. My 997S is totally different to the M3, and pulls much harder at any rev increment if you compare the two directly. Above 5k rpm, there is a nice increase in power; sounds like there must be something wrong with yours to experience a drop.

My 0.02c. Be surprised if the M3 could live with the 997S on real world roads or on the track based on my experience owning both.

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Sep 8, 2005 5:41:07 AM

rv997: Junior; Loc: Luxemburg; Posts: 105, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Quote:
MMD said:
I've got 1500 miles on the car and have been experimenting getting near redline. Actually nothing over 6000. BTW, that drop in power at 5000 bothers me.

I'm sorry to report I'm not satisfied by the "projected" (that is, after breakin and redline) HP in the car. I fully admit I don't know how to drive the thing yet (My BoxterS is sooooo much easier to max out on curves).

Anyway, as far as raw HP is concerned, compared to my 04 M3 the Carrera S isn't that big a deal yet. It seems to underperform (M3 has 333hp).

What am I doing wrong? Do I need driving instruction?

Most of all: Do you think we should Dyno our cars to see of they put out the advertised HP? What do we do if they don't? What will Porsche do if you have a 330 hp engine that's supposed to put out 355?

Forgot to say I'm very happy with the rest of the car. It's just the HP which I'm wondering about above.

Had my E36 M3 dynoed whenit had 24000km; just before selling it. it was supposed to be 321HP, results: 295HP !
The technicians told me not to be dissapointed; it happened all the time with M3's, but never with Porsche...
Go up from 6000 to the red line, there it is

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Sep 8, 2005 6:00:18 AM

sparetireless: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 28, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 5, 2004; Reply to: rv997

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

If you Dyno, kiss 25% of your tires good bye. Ask those who know.

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Sep 8, 2005 12:38:56 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: sparetireless

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Gee everybody, Thanks!

My little island of insecurity has been bridged.

Gotta get those last few break-in miles done and I must print out this well-informed thread and go for another test drive.

I definitely must learn to drive this car from an expert at the local PCA Driver Ed. I must admit once the Porsche engine starts screaming I get a little spooked and back off (esp since I still have breakin miles on odo). The M3 is quieter and easier to beat the sh*t out of (sorry for the crude language).

I'll keep working on it. Thanks again for the excellent help.

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Sep 8, 2005 1:33:03 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Your Porsche engine is built like a brick $hithouse, there's no need to worry about it like a fragile flower. The endurance and durability that Porsche engineers in, and then torture tests, is far and beyond ANY conceivable strain you could ever imagine doing to your car. Just change the oil and air filter at the recommended intervals, and you can't break it. You don't need instruction, you just need to lose your unfounded phobia of this motor. I'm not giving you a hard time, I was super paranoid when I bought my '97 S351 Saleen new. The motor was hand-machined, hand-assembled, generated over 500 horsepower and had to withstand over 8 pounds of boost (not a ton, but still...). Saleen only built a total of 38 of those cars in 1997, so we're talking ULTRA-LIMITED production here, and not near the level of mass-production tolerance and standardization that a Porsche has built-in. So with that car (and I know everybody is laughing, as I've been such an ardent poo-poo-er of the Porsche USA factory break-in), I was on pins and needles for the first few thousand miles. Bottom line, I just didn't trust that sucker to be durable. I could just imaging pegging the boost, and jettisoning a connecting rod right out through the side of the block. But in the end, that car's been as tough as an anvil, and in the 24,000 total miles I've put on it, the oil comes out as clean after 3,000 miles as it did going in. But given its hand-built, small-shop roots, I think I was justified in being a bit nervous on that car. With a 911 Porsche, shoot, you can't kill those motors, they're like the Cummins Diesel of performance car engines. Stick your foot in it and enjoy, the redline is probably set more for the survival of the alternator than the engine internals!!! LOL!!!!

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Sep 9, 2005 12:51:56 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Thanks for the write-up 69bossnine. I really appreciate it; it's like an upper. I'm again feeling great, happy and confident about the Porsche metal.

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Sep 9, 2005 1:14:53 PM

Kevin Snyder: Newbie; Loc: Seabrook Island, SC, USA; Posts: 31, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

69bossnine,

That's a great post. Really makes us feel good inside when slamming the gas pedal!

Come to think of it, that's several good posts of yours I've read recently. Might have to use the search and read some more!

Kevin

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Sep 9, 2005 1:30:57 PM

strawman: Newbie; Loc: Canada; Posts: 44, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 12, 2004; Reply to: sparetireless

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Quote:
sparetireless said:
If you Dyno, kiss 25% of your tires good bye. Ask those who know.

I have never heard of that before. Why would you get 25% tire wear?

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Sep 9, 2005 1:32:59 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Kevin Snyder

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Just think about what the car is engineered to endure if you were to take it to a "track day" at Sebring..... nothing but full-throttle redline-shifting flat-out wringing of the car, lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap...............................

And when you're done, the brakes and the tires may need some attention, but the engine is still good for a quarter million miles of regular driving....

Kinda makes your stress level going through a few gears on an interstate on-ramp seem a little silly, huh??? For all of us that do nothing but street driving, we're basically using a pure-bred Kentucky Derby race horse for trail riding and trotting.

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Sep 9, 2005 1:37:21 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: strawman

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Quote:
strawman said:
Quote:
sparetireless said:
If you Dyno, kiss 25% of your tires good bye. Ask those who know.

I have never heard of that before. Why would you get 25% tire wear?

I have no idea what he was referring to. I figure it's either the 12-15% driveline loss you realize when you measure horsepower from the rear wheels instead of the crankshaft, or.... he's insinuating that you would get horrendous wheel-spin on the dyno barrel that they strap the tires down to on a Dyno-jet unit. I've got news for you, a 997S is not powerful enough to spin the tires on a Dyno-jet. You've got to have alot more power, and alot less tire, to have tire-spin issues on a Dyno-jet dynomometer.

So, I too, was scratching my head on that post...

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Sep 9, 2005 3:17:36 PM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

I know how you feel. Coming from an E55, the lack of torque makes the 997 feel slow but its actually just as fast if not faster. Of course this is from a standing start, at speed, the 997 does seem to run out of breath when accelerating.

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Sep 9, 2005 4:43:27 PM

Fred 993C4S: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 86, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2004; Reply to: Texas911

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

My quick post on the subject.....
MMD, If I recall correctly you don't have SportChrono, if that is the case you need to be a little more aggressive with the gas pedal to get a more sporty feeling out of your 997, remember that in effect the 997 throttle mapping and engine response when you do not have sport chrono is set for confort and fuel savings so the engine doesn't rev as fast and the throtlle requires more travel to get the same amount of response. I find my S to be extremelly civilized and feels sluggish when driving around commuting because the thing is set to work that way, the engine itself is capable of a lot more though and you'll have to use the gas pedal deeper to get the engine reving faster. I hope this helps, if in doubt go to your dealer and ask them to try out a car with Sport Chrono and see what I mean, You'll be hitting the rev limiter faster than you'd ever thought possible!

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Sep 9, 2005 9:01:09 PM

alin330: Junior; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 104, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 17, 2003; Reply to: Fred 993C4S

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

I Think Fred 993C4s is right on.

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Sep 9, 2005 9:28:41 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Quote:
STRADALE said:
This is my first sports car in the last 5 that doesn't have at least 400hp.
2002 M5 -400hp
2002 Viper -450hp
2002 Porsche Turbo -420hp.
2004 Ferrari CS- 425hp

I love the car, the handling the ease to drive, the overall feeling etc. but I have to admit it feels it's a little light in the power department.
Put your deposit down for the Turbo. Imagine another 130hp ? That should be enough.

MMD,

Take Stradale's advice and get in line for a blower-Ahh, make that the 997BlowerS.

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Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

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Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

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Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

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Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

Re: Not fully satisfied. Should I Dyno my CarreraS?

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