Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS - Page1

Sep 5, 2005 6:39:09 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Sloppy,

Childish and stupid?

Read your posts,then please look in the mirror!

I never said " treat someone as ..." I said they were...
Also, please include/ take the whole post in context, don't selectively pick out and twist my words to suit your inane arguments and accusations! Please read carefully! It really seems you have an axe to grind!?

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Sep 5, 2005 6:57:05 PM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

The Lt General, in charge..., is putting the media in check!

That press conference was great! He seems like a no nonsense and take charge leader! This man is awesome!

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Sep 6, 2005 2:49:43 PM

cartouche: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 399, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 3, 2005; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/06/opinion/06kristof.html?hp

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Sep 6, 2005 3:54:54 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: cartouche

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Cartouche, with all due respect, I must say that after reading that NYT article, I feel immensely stupider than I felt prior to reading it. I think that columnist (and I use the term loosely) just sucked 20% of my brain mass straight out through my butt.

Wealth is being redistributed from the poor to the wealthy?? Ponder that notion for a second, and maybe the absurdity will begin to surface.

The amount of poverty in our nation is shameful, to be sure, but you don't fix poverty with cash. You fix it with education, both moral and scholastic.

There will always be poor, until people are empowered and emboldened to achieve for themselves, rather than be forever reliant upon the government. And even still, there will always be poor, there is no utopia, and there's always going to be at least one person in town who is nothing more than damn lazy.

To blame President Bush for all of this, is humorous. Surely, if Al Gore had won 6 years ago, you wouldn't see a scene ANY DIFFERENT in New Orleans than what you see today. But of course, those who are in love with feel-good rhetoric would give ole' Al a free pass, because the blame game is only fun when you can blame somebody you possess an irrational hatred for.

No, the problems in the U.S.A. stretch WAY back, when temporary government welfare programs were allowed to become permanent government crutches. When fear of sexist or racist accusation caused schools to ignore true underachievement, and poor behavior. No, we planted the seeds for this mess decades ago, when we allowed socialism to sneak into the room and dig its claws into us.

When you watch the news footage, you see alot of poor and disadvantaged people. Some are being strong, helping others, and being strong for their families. Others are just sitting on their rears, waiting for somebody to pick them up and dust them off. It's not their fault, our government has TRAINED THEM FOR DECADES to rely on them. We need to fix our problems from the roots on up to the flowers, not just keep dumping fertilizer on them, and wondering why they never grow.

Insanity is sometimes defined as repeating the same action over and over, each time expecting a different result. I truly feel that our Founding Fathers, had the right plan. Yes, there were extreme social injustices at the time, but their framework allowed for the eventual correction of such problems through basic freedoms. In the 20th century, we've taken that framework and distorted and mutated it. Our government is too large to be effective at anything, no matter WHO is sitting in the white house. It will take a long long time to turn it around, but I don't see an American population with the cojones to make that turn. Turning our poor away from "victim mentality" is essential. You can partially eliminate making them victims by giving them money, but if they still perceive victimization, you're just as sunk as you were before. So we just keep on doing the same things, throwing more and more wealth and money onto the burn-pile, doing the same things and getting the same results. Other socialist countries are "bubbles" that always eventually burst. But they bask in their temporary utopias while they can, and they toss barbs at the U.S.. Only problem is, we're one of you now, and our bubble is bursting. That's what we get for losing our way I suppose.

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Sep 6, 2005 4:59:35 PM

mljd: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 30, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 1, 2004; Reply to: cartouche

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Dear all,

First all my sympathies are for people who are victims of the Hurricane. Then, I don't speak very good English but I will try to say my experience. 2 years ago I'm going for the first time in USA and I have only one word: WOW. My first dream is to live there and I'm return all years in USA. People are free, friendly, generous, and happy.

I never seen in Europe people who aid other people some like in USA. Just to says that I support completely all the American and all their law about guns. I think that if we can buy, here in Europe, guns some like American can buy them, they would have very less crimes in Europe that now. Because when you have restrictive law good peoples can buy guns but people who want to kill can always buy guns. And I hope that some day one government likewise USA government come in Europe. And for Cartouche I just want to says that if our opinions are fascist ( who are not the true ) your opinions is the same that Staline ( Ask to Russian people what they reflect about them! )

American people must be proud!

God bless the American, the USA and the president Bush,

Sorry for my poor English.

A sad European,

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Sep 6, 2005 5:45:44 PM

Kevin Snyder: Newbie; Loc: Seabrook Island, SC, USA; Posts: 31, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

69bossnine,

Well said.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess of the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship." ?Sir Alex Fraser Tytler?

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Sep 6, 2005 5:48:51 PM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: mljd

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Mljd,

I welcome you to come visit our great country any time! People like you understand what freedom means, what it took to achieve, and what it takes to keep. Makes me feel relief that you're out there. God bless YOU!

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Sep 6, 2005 5:53:16 PM

cartouche: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 399, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 3, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Nice to read you, 69bossnine, even if I disagree...
Sorry to make you feel so immensely stupider than you felt prior to reading the NYT article.
Opinions about poverty and social exclusion are various.
The following link seems to resume fairly well different opinions about it :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty
and this one inform about poverty in US :
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/poverty.html
I hope this time not to make you feel still more stupid, or even to make you lose your time, otherwise you'll lose your sense of humor, and I still appreciate it !

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Sep 6, 2005 6:21:15 PM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: cartouche

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Cartouche!

"The U.S. Census Bureau reported a few days ago that the poverty rate rose again last year, with 1.1 million more Americans living in poverty in 2004 than a year earlier. After declining sharply under Bill Clinton, the number of poor people has now risen 17 percent under Mr. Bush."

---Factor in the dot com boom during Clinton and Sept 11th during Bush.

"So in some ways the poor children evacuated from New Orleans are the lucky ones because they may now get checkups and vaccinations. But nationally, 29 percent of children had no health insurance at some point in the last 12 months, and many get neither checkups nor vaccinations. The U.S. ranks 84th in the world for measles immunizations and 89th for polio."

---Without healthcare insurance or without healthcare? Big difference! Anyone here in the US can get healthcare. The left try to twist this.

"Bush administration - has systematically cut people out of the social fabric by redistributing wealth from the most vulnerable Americans to the most affluent."

---Our tax system takes about 1/3 of its revenue from the top one percent of income earners. To work hard and earn more is to pay more of each dollar to govt. Bottom 1/4 of income earners pay NO taxes! (ballpark %'s)

"It's not just that funds may have gone to Iraq rather than to the levees in New Orleans; it's also that money went to tax cuts for the wealthiest rather than vaccinations for children."

---Crap like this makes me livid. The NY Times isn't good enough to wipe my ass with.

If you believe what one person can get published (made possible through freedom) is the absolute truth, then I hope you're ignorant instead of stupid because you can't fix stupid.

Good luck.

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Sep 6, 2005 9:20:41 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: GA997S

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Cartouche, your "cycle of poverty" does not apply to the U.S., it is not a result of anybody having taken anything from the poor.

Our cycle or poverty is borne from generations of welfare, not generations of tyranny. A hand-out feeds a person for a day, a hand-UP feeds a person for a lifetime. We've been doing hand-outs since WWII, and it's done nothing but dig us a bigger hole and increased the chasm between the rich and the poor. The poor need a HAND UP with education and an instilled pride that has to come from WITHIN poor communities. You can't wrap a bow on pride, and give it to somebody as a government gift.

While the cost of living can easily outstrip a meager income, that still doesn't explain the fact that you can't drive down a single street in the poorest neighborhood in America and not find a color TV in every living room, and a cell-phone plugged into the cigarette lighter of every car.

The American Dream has ceased to become an aspiration....now everybody thinks it's a friggin right of birth. They don't understand how many have died to preserve our rights.

While the old adage "it takes money to make money" is true in certain situations, it's not an absolute. Our ancestors came here basically with nothing. But one thing they also had zero of were EXCUSES, they took advantage of the opportunity afforded them.

All the finger wagging and excuses these days does NOTHING for poor people in desparate situations. We all need to shut up and work hard, period.

I went to public school from day-one. My elementary school was in the most depressed part of town, and happened to be 70% minority (which in turn, made the minorities the majority!). We all sat in the same class, and received the same instruction. There's nothing wrong with those schools, I went on to graduate with honors starting in the poorest schools in town. There's ALOT wrong with the way the parents are raising the kids going to those schools, and the constraints put upon those schools preventing them from instilling any discipline.

Yes, we've got problems. But PLEASE stop pointing fingers at our flippin President. That's a convenient "excuse" for a much deeper trend that spans generations. Once people stop dwelling on the perceived reasons they are victims, and start putting their dreams and ambitions on the front burner, I believe this country will rally again. But it will never happen if we rely on hand-wringing-syrupy-sweet-cradling-coddling bull$hit artists in Washington, who put their future elections ahead of the country's best interests.

Bill Cosby, albeit just an entertainer, has been speaking the hard truth lately. He's taken some heat from the race-war pimps, but he's been doing alot of good too, instilling a sense of pride.

Lastly, I'll just say that you can post ENDLESS links to liberal columnists and websites that are complaining, and whining, and pointing fingers. Those kind of folk have never really DONE anything in their lives other than complain. It wouldn't matter if we elected flippin Ralph Nader President, their world would still be a dark, gloomy and pessimistic place. Those are the folks who want what can't be had in an imperfect world, where good and evil coexist. They'll bitch, moan, whine, forever, and they'll die bitter. I may be conservative, but at least I've got a positive outlook, and it's served me damn well so far. If only everybody in this country would get busy with their own life, and quit playing the blame game.

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Sep 6, 2005 9:34:47 PM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Glad he dosen't vote here!

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Sep 7, 2005 2:40:58 AM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: mljd

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

mljd,

God Bless you!

You made my day!

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Sep 7, 2005 3:00:33 AM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

69bossnine,

I agree 100%!
If I didn't have my brain, I'd want yours!

I know, I borrowed that line!

Thanks, great posts!

Sloppy C. and other critics apparently can only find fault- way too depressing and unproductive. In this case, transparently political and driven by hate. Sad!

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Sep 7, 2005 3:10:58 AM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: GA997S

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Quote:
GA5656 said:
Mljd,

I welcome you to come visit our great country any time! People like you understand what freedom means, what it took to achieve, and what it takes to keep. Makes me feel relief that you're out there. God bless YOU!

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Sep 7, 2005 3:16:56 AM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

From one Bulldog to another!

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Sep 7, 2005 3:22:12 AM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Bill Cosby, albeit just an entertainer, has been speaking the hard truth lately. He's taken some heat from the race-war pimps, but he's been doing alot of good too, instilling a sense of pride.

Although I couldn't care less about the opinions of entertainers, I have to admit that Bill Cosby has surprised me lately. I'm beginning to admire him for his courage to come out and say what needed to be said.

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Sep 7, 2005 12:23:25 PM

greggr107: Pilot; Loc: San Jose, CA; Posts: 385, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 20, 2005; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Ok who's with me... 69bossnine in '08!

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Sep 7, 2005 3:17:00 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: greggr107

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Quote:
greggr107 said:
Ok who's with me... 69bossnine in '08!

But really though..... Who would want that job??? The world is so lost in stereotypes, false/unfounded impressions, and silly misconceptions, that you're sunk from the beginning for no other reason but whether there's an "R" or a "D" in front of your name on the ballot, or because you're not a born "orator".

How frustrating it is when people perceive themselves as so caring and thoughtful, when they pull their opinions so carelessly from such shallow depths and biased sources. If you really care, then care enough to research both sides of the arguments. There is ALWAYS two sides to every story, as we are now finding out, as the REAL and TOTAL story regarding city, state and federal response to Hurricane Katrina is now finally surfacing its ugly head.

All my life, every month of every year, I've heard the chorus of Chicken Littles telling me how the sky is falling. It's gotten to the point where the press is just crying wolf, because none of the future catastrophes that they invent EVER come to pass. It's just sensationalism.

Living in this world today, and trying to be reasonably educated about it, has become an exercise in mastering the art of reading between the lines. So precious few are out there that actually shoot straight.

I believe that George Bush is trying to shoot as straight as he can. But with the screwy level of diplomacy and hand-holding we have to do around the world, and the massive government machine surrounding him, it's like trying to shoot straight from the top of a bucking bull. No matter how hard you try, the goofballs in the stands will just judge you on whether you hit the target, regardless of the fact you've got little control over what's happening beneath you.

Man, I get caught up in these damn speeches!! Enough of my soapbox derby!!

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Sep 8, 2005 4:45:51 AM

jack49: Junior; Loc: Minnesota , United States; Posts: 69, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 31, 2005; Reply to: GA997S

Re: A WORD FOR NEW ORLEANS

Dead on !
thanks,
jack49

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