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Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
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MKSGR said:In the end the Porsche TT has a strong reputation for being the fastest and most efficient sports car around. That is why I like any innovation that makes the car faster. If it is sheer driving pleasure you are after the perfect car should be a Ferrari
This is certainly the sad truth for most current Porsches, but it didn't used to be this way. I want sheer driving pleasure and I can't afford a new Ferrari. So, I guess I'll keep buying older Porsches that provide sheer driving pleasure, even though I can afford some of the new ones
Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
Subjectives aside, imagine the Turbo's engine at full boost being able to keep as much of that boost as possible in continuous full throttle aplication up the gears with the DSG's advantages over a slushbox, full manual or single clutch seq manual like such as offered by Ferrari or BMW !OTOH, perhaps that is why there are rumors of torque stress issues ( peak and width of it's fat TQ curve vs say a peaky Ferrari motor ) in their testing so far with this box on the Turbos .
Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
Quote:
MKW said:
Subjectives aside, imagine the Turbo's engine at full boost being able to keep as much of that boost as possible in continuous full throttle aplication up the gears with the DSG's advantages over a slushbox, full manual or single clutch seq manual like such as offered by Ferrari or BMW !OTOH, perhaps that is why there are rumors of torque stress issues ( peak and width of it's fat TQ curve vs say a peaky Ferrari motor ) in their testing so far with this box on the Turbos . [/quo
well, just imagine the stress the DSG manages to handle in the Bugatti already: 1001 hp, 1250 Nm tourque, 1950 kg, 0-100 in 2.5.
the clutch there has the size of the drum of a small washing machine! no way the output of a 997tt engine would be able to stress a DSG too much!
Sep 1, 2005 6:45:40 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
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Your rant should be the mission statement for the dinosaur club. Not only do you manage to trash most if not all technology but for good measure you throw in a mix of sexism. You should be the poster child for all that is old and backward.
Sexist?? Dinosaur??? Good grief, what's this world coming to? Touchy-feely political correctness makes me queezy. I hope you were being sarcastic!
I'm all for technology, but it has to be well-placed. For things you DON'T enjoy doing, it's great when technology can do it for you. But when it replaces things you DO enjoy doing..... WTF???
If I invented a machine that could pleasure your wife in bed far better than you can, would you buy it? Hey! It's technology! Don't be a dinosaur! Your wife should love replacing you with a machine, right? I mean, at that point, you having sex with her would be, like, backwards prehistoric nonsense...
Some things are better left alone. I'll take freshly grilled food over one of those nasty rations they make astronauts eat.
Let's get real, and stop hiding behind the "technology" curtain here, which is pure B.S.. DSG is just a computer and some hardware doing the clutching and shifting FOR YOU. I don't care how cutting-edge you consider it, there's no denying that basic fact. There's one hell of alot more technology and development and money tied up in building fluid-driven torque-converter automatics. The DSG is just a newer idea for manipulating older technology.
The word "automatic" is just a word, it does not by definition apply strictly to a certain type of tranny. I don't care if DSG is more advanced than splitting the atom, it still accomplishes the same thing. It takes you out of the loop of being the master between the engine and the rear wheels. It's an "automatic" clutch, with an electronic shifter. So justify it 'till your blue, I'm not jumping on this new "technology" any quicker than I'm going to give up weight training in favor of kicking a Hacky Sack around, just because it's a more modern flippin trend. Modern or not, I'd still be a dork (I know, I'm stepping right in it!
)Lastly, please don't mind me being an irrational jerk on the subject. I just love driving!!!! The only time I don't mind an automatic, is when I'm driving a vehicle that couldn't inspire me anyhow, like a pickup truck or a luxo-barge. So don't take me to seriously, I don't want to start a war!!
Sep 1, 2005 6:47:37 PM
- 69bossnine
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Sep 1, 2005 7:20:58 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
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Grant said:
Nicely said, 69!
Ditto!
Technology that improves "safety"... YES. (ABS, PSM, Airbags, etc.)
Technology that reduces driver involvement o factor... NO.
The only exception is in motorsport racing were fractions of a second in lap times is all that matters, not how much fun the driver is having. But for a street car, the opposite is true. If they developed a GPS system that integrated to the steering, tranny, throttle and brakes could drive the car faster than you around the track or you favorite mountain road, would you want that too? well auto-trannies knock out one of those elements that make up "driving", OK in a commuter or a transport vehicle, but not in a sportcar intended for the pleasure of sport driving, unloess that is not the intention of the sportcar
The only time I could understand buying a ato-tranny is is you have a phicial problem (bad back), you must share the car with a significant that for some reason cannot drive a stick, you use tha car for 90% slow traffic jam commuting... but otherwise 
Sep 1, 2005 7:40:34 PM
- 69bossnine
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Carlos from Spain
Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
At last, some backup!!!
Here's a little known fact..... DSG actually existed, in a more primative form, almost 100 years ago. The rich old lady sat in the back, and used a cone hooked to a tube to bark orders to the chauffeur, who in-turn would execute said orders. "Slow down...speed up...watch that turn (early yaw control)...stop sign up ahead (early abs)" It was primative, and didn't boast the shift-speed and smoothness of today's systems, but it was deadly reliable....Unless of course you used it too roughly, at which point the entire system would slam on the brakes, exit the car, and leave you stranded on the side of the road. The system also had the unique ability of accepting bribery to self-repair itself, and go back into service.
See!!! New technology my eye, this kind of stuff was being built decades ago!!!
Here's a little known fact..... DSG actually existed, in a more primative form, almost 100 years ago. The rich old lady sat in the back, and used a cone hooked to a tube to bark orders to the chauffeur, who in-turn would execute said orders. "Slow down...speed up...watch that turn (early yaw control)...stop sign up ahead (early abs)" It was primative, and didn't boast the shift-speed and smoothness of today's systems, but it was deadly reliable....Unless of course you used it too roughly, at which point the entire system would slam on the brakes, exit the car, and leave you stranded on the side of the road. The system also had the unique ability of accepting bribery to self-repair itself, and go back into service.
See!!! New technology my eye, this kind of stuff was being built decades ago!!!
Sep 1, 2005 8:11:47 PM
- LowPolarMoment
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Sep 1, 2005 8:43:10 PM
- Grant
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Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
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LowPolarMoment said:
Bossnine, I'm thinking once we all start driving DSG, they'll give us cars that steer themselves. Now that will be maximum tech, minimum fun.
It's no joke - this technology (cars that steer themselves with sensors in the road) has been seriously under development. I think we're living in the golden age right now - things will not likely get better from here...
Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
LowPolarMoment said:
Bossnine, I'm thinking once we all start driving DSG, they'll give us cars that steer themselves. Now that will be maximum tech, minimum fun.
It's no joke - this technology (cars that steer themselves with sensors in the road) has been seriously under development. I think we're living in the golden age right now - things will not likely get better from here...
Dudes,
That gadget has been around even before Henry Ford assembled the Model T: The chauffeur.
I also doubt that the manual tranny is an "endangered" species, even if more of us (not me) are buying cars without them.
Sep 2, 2005 12:55:34 AM
- FixedWing
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Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
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69bossnine said:
Why is Porsche so late in the game with DSG?? Maybe Porsche feels like I do. That it's monumentally uninvolving and makes what used to be challenging, stupifyingly easy.
Porsche AG is in the business of selling cars. If they thought that sticking a flower vase in the dash sold cars then that is what they would do. And in any case, I think you're losing sight of the design goal of Porsche's Turbo line. It is intended as a Grand Touring car. It is not intended as a track car like the GT3. As a Grand Touring car, automatic does need to be an option.
No, the real reason that PAG is following up the rear is because they insist on maintaining their independence even when it is no longer economic and as a consequence do not have the resources to develop a system such as this while simultaneously doing what they need to do to keep their models current.
Stephen
Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
Quote:
FixedWing said:Quote:
69bossnine said:
Why is Porsche so late in the game with DSG?? Maybe Porsche feels like I do. That it's monumentally uninvolving and makes what used to be challenging, stupifyingly easy.
Porsche AG is in the business of selling cars. If they thought that sticking a flower vase in the dash sold cars then that is what they would do. And in any case, I think you're losing sight of the design goal of Porsche's Turbo line. It is intended as a Grand Touring car. It is not intended as a track car like the GT3. As a Grand Touring car, automatic does need to be an option.
No, the real reason that PAG is following up the rear is because they insist on maintaining their independence even when it is no longer economic and as a consequence do not have the resources to develop a system such as this while simultaneously doing what they need to do to keep their models current.
Stephen
Before we ascribe P's delay in coming out w/a DSG box to its independence/small size, shouldn't we know roughly what F spent to develop its F1 box, F's revs and operating profits, etc....and compare that to P's revs, oper profits, R&D budget, etc? Don't have the exact figs, but if a co. selling <5K cars/yr can develop and refine an F1 box yrs before P, I doubt the small size excuse makes sense.....
Kudos to F for its seemingly rapid-fire product cycle and outstanding F1 box refinements (just compare how long it's taking Lambo/Audi to release a Gallardo Spider and AM/Ford's rather delayed DB9Volante and AMV8)
. However, my sense is P is looking about as lame on this DSG release as F tends to be re: basic safety features like head/side airbags, which even its 4300lb+ 612s still lack.....
Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
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FixedWing said:Quote:
VKSF said:
... if a co. selling <5K cars/yr can develop and refine an F1 box yrs before P, I doubt the small size excuse makes sense.....
You do know that "F" stands for Fiat, right?
Stephen
So are you saying F is getting all that F1 tech from Fiat?
I guess P should go to VW and/or Audi for tech help as well....
Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
Losing our humanity to advancing technology is nothing new. Oslerian clinical diagnosis gave way to diagnostic imaging and the medical profession has never been the same. While clearly many physicians' clinical skills have been lost in the process, I suspect that most Rennteamers would rather trust an echocardiogram, CT, or MRI to a fellow with a stethoscope around his neck to diagnose what ails them. The manual gearbox is an entertainment feature in an automobile at this time in our technological and sociologic development. I mentioned in another posting the strength of the human atavistic impulse, and nowhere is this better exemplified than the 1973 911 RS, the automotive equivalent of Man in his loincloth, fresh kill in his belly, and woman unquestionly attending his every need.
Sep 2, 2005 3:01:51 PM
- LowPolarMoment
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Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
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DaveC said:
I mentioned in another posting the strength of the human atavistic impulse, and nowhere is this better exemplified than the 1973 911 RS, the automotive equivalent of Man in his loincloth, fresh kill in his belly, and woman unquestionly attending his every need.
Sounds perfect!
Sep 2, 2005 3:31:40 PM
- 69bossnine
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Sep 2, 2005 9:34:38 PM
- fritz
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Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
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69bossnine said:
As opposed to metro-sexual man in his Birkenstocks, fresh Starbucks in his belly, and woman unquestionly blowing off his every need while she yacks with her girlfriend-slash-secret-lover on her BlackBerry??
So which car would be the automotive equivalent of this guy?
Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
69bossnine said:
As opposed to metro-sexual man in his Birkenstocks, fresh Starbucks in his belly, and woman unquestionly blowing off his every need while she yacks with her girlfriend-slash-secret-lover on her BlackBerry??
So which car would be the automotive equivalent of this guy?
They do seem to sell a lot of Boxsters and Z4s in SF....but then there's the upcoming Gayman.....
Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
i'm with you MKM--
i'll be ordering the 997TS and would love to have DSG for that particularly potent set-up...
i suspect P/mgmt is in the boiler on DSG-availability to **what's most likely** a heavy-set demographic UPDATE from users like ourselves~~
i'll be ordering the 997TS and would love to have DSG for that particularly potent set-up...
i suspect P/mgmt is in the boiler on DSG-availability to **what's most likely** a heavy-set demographic UPDATE from users like ourselves~~
Re: DSG - Sequential Shifting Rumor Update
When Christian says DSG (S - for sequential) I hope he refers to a true dual-clutch transmisssion.
It surprises me that PAG is delaying this on torque issues. PAG has been licensing this technology to others for years... and is using it in the new LMP2 RS Spyder... w/ a lot of torque.
It surprises me that PAG is delaying this on torque issues. PAG has been licensing this technology to others for years... and is using it in the new LMP2 RS Spyder... w/ a lot of torque.
Sep 4, 2005 5:06:05 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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