Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what? - Page2

Aug 24, 2005 4:18:35 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: AeroSmith

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

I can't remember (don't have my book with me either) but is each side of the STOCK exhaust completely isolated from one another? Or it there some "cross over?"

IOW, following the headers to the mufflers to the tail pipes, are both sides completely independent from eachother

If there are NOT completely isolated from eachother then there's a lot less certainty in concluding that there may be something amiss with one or more cylinders on one side.

Next
Threads

Aug 24, 2005 5:56:35 AM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: AeroSmith

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

he's got the standard pipes aerosmith, so it can't be the sport exhaust

Next
Threads

Aug 24, 2005 9:40:59 AM

cartouche: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 399, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 3, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Is it possible that only 3 cyl are functioning when not flooring ? It could explain the disymetric exhaust dirtiness by mainly "soft" drive...
I did notice, also, that deceleration at low speed in first or second gear is VERY smooth, resistance less, as if compression was very weak... Must be a sophisticated system.

Next
Threads

Aug 24, 2005 2:52:17 PM

AeroSmith: Co-Pilot; Loc: Saint Petersburg, FL; Posts: 202, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 3, 2005; Reply to: Mike S

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Quote:
Mike S said:
he's got the standard pipes aerosmith, so it can't be the sport exhaust

Doh!

Next
Threads

Aug 24, 2005 3:21:55 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: AeroSmith

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Just a note: each side of the exhaust system IS completely independent. Now it is safe to say something different is going on in the cylinders of each half of the engine.

Next
Threads

Aug 24, 2005 3:34:50 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6078, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Quote:
MMD said:
Just a note: each side of the exhaust system IS completely independent. Now it is safe to say something different is going on in the cylinders of each half of the engine.

Its a back to the dealer job or is he just cleaning the right tips as we look

..

throt..

Next
Threads

Aug 24, 2005 5:21:07 PM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: throt

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

after all this debate, i finally decided to take pics of my exhaust outlets! they seem to be the same to me?

LEFT SIDE:

Next
Threads

Aug 24, 2005 5:21:57 PM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Mike S

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

RIGHT SIDE:

Next
Threads

Aug 24, 2005 6:41:48 PM

964C2: Expert; Loc: Dallas, TX , United States; Posts: 1825, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: Mike S

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Black anodized exhaust tips are the answer....just like if you hear a strange engine noise, turn up the radio

Next
Threads

Aug 25, 2005 12:03:29 AM

brunner: Veteran; Loc: E. Europe , Romania; Posts: 1125, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2003; Reply to: 964C2

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Can the cilinder firing order have anything to do with this?
Maybe the soot collects in the exhaust overnight, and gets pushed out by the left cilinders firing first?

Next
Threads

Aug 25, 2005 3:09:08 AM

gradyex: Pilot; Loc: S.F. Bay Area, CA.; Posts: 334, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 21, 2004; Reply to: Mike S

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

I was offline yesterday so I was unable to post. Let me address your observations. AeroSmith (like that group by the way), it appears that my exhaust tips are stock but they are indeed PSE (I used my wide angle lens already attached to my camera, hence the tips look the same. The tips are chrome if you look closely). Anyhow, I did not have the switch install so they were wide open from day one. Right now both sides look about the same and are almost black not dark/light gray like MikeS's car. Man, either those look brand new, you wash them often, or MMD and I are really burning rich! Since I last posted I've opened the car up to redline, like I always do on a weekly basis and she runs strong, especially after the dealer gave me a bottle of "stuff" to throw in the tank to clean the injectors. With 7500 miles on it, they told me it was due for a bottle treatment. I'm not overly concerned about it but just wondered if anyone else experienced this? Thanks for your responses and in the meantime I might bring it up with my dealer. Cheers.

Next
Threads

Aug 25, 2005 3:27:58 AM

gradyex: Pilot; Loc: S.F. Bay Area, CA.; Posts: 334, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 21, 2004; Reply to: gradyex

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Another comparison using standard lens (not wide angle). The right side is not quite as black but its close. Again the right side photo.

Next
Threads

Aug 25, 2005 3:29:43 AM

gradyex: Pilot; Loc: S.F. Bay Area, CA.; Posts: 334, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 21, 2004; Reply to: gradyex

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Left side again.

Next
Threads

Aug 25, 2005 3:32:31 AM

gradyex: Pilot; Loc: S.F. Bay Area, CA.; Posts: 334, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 21, 2004; Reply to: gradyex

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Oh man, didn't realize the resolution was so large! Sorry about that. Anyway there is a difference albeit small.

Next
Threads

Aug 25, 2005 3:08:45 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: gradyex

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Quote:
gradyex said:
Right now both sides look about the same and are almost black not dark/light gray like MikeS's car. Man, either those look brand new, you wash them often, or MMD and I are really burning rich!

yeah, good point. I'm guessing now that we are burning very rich and that's throwing things off making the "imbalance" more visible or the imbalance is just a symptom of burning rich. IOW, getting to the dealer and having them check their diagnosics and make adjustments to the motronics might easily correct the "soot imbalance" problem.

A few bottles of "BMW fuel additive" (Techron) after that might be nice.

Next
Threads

Aug 27, 2005 6:11:16 AM

gradyex: Pilot; Loc: S.F. Bay Area, CA.; Posts: 334, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 21, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Quote:
MMD said:
Quote:
gradyex said:
Right now both sides look about the same and are almost black not dark/light gray like MikeS's car. Man, either those look brand new, you wash them often, or MMD and I are really burning rich!

yeah, good point. I'm guessing now that we are burning very rich and that's throwing things off making the "imbalance" more visible or the imbalance is just a symptom of burning rich. IOW, getting to the dealer and having them check their diagnosics and make adjustments to the motronics might easily correct the "soot imbalance" problem.

A few bottles of "BMW fuel additive" (Techron) after that might be nice.

Sound like a good idea MMD. To tell you the truth I am not that concerned about it. I think if it was abnormal we would be burning more oil or getting really bad gas mileage. BTW the additive my dealer gave me helped the throttle response a bit. You don't need to worry about that yet (my car has 7500 miles) and was due for a treatment. Using Chevron with Techron all the time will keep the fuel injectors clean. I am doing a treatment every 2-3000 miles anyway just to be on the safe side. As you pile on the miles your car will loosen up and feel stronger . Mine feels like its running as strong as ever just wish I had access to 93 octane fuel instead of 91. I may drive to Infinion Raceway and try out the 100 octane unleaded just for fun?

Next
Threads

Aug 27, 2005 4:59:35 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: gradyex

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

I will be bringing the car in for service on other minor problems soon. Will "demand" (more like beg for) an official answer to the soot imbalance. My expectation is that we'll get some wishy washy response (i.e. a guess on their part). What pi**es me off (when I think about it too much) is there is someone at Porsche Central Command in Germany who KNOWS the answer to this question and can, alert us or place our minds at ease. BUT there's just too much "Excellence" smeared all over the chain of command for us to get a simple, quick, cogent answer to our (many) question(s).

BTW, I prefer to buy and use BMW additive (at additional cost) because I have more faith in some high-level BMW rep allowing Chevron to bottle BMW's requested version of techron for German engines. IOW, the Techron you get at the auto stores is probably a diluted version for the "average" car. Just a guess, but probably not that far from reality. At LEAST some BMW engineers had a look at what goes into the BMW bottles.

---->

Next
Threads

Aug 27, 2005 5:03:55 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: gradyex

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Quote:
gradyex said:
Oh man, didn't realize the resolution was so large! Sorry about that. Anyway there is a difference albeit small.

BTW gradyex, Those are beautiful pictures of the exhaust tail pipes. WOW!I never thought I'd ever see/say something like that. Good work.

Next
Threads

Aug 30, 2005 1:03:28 AM

Raptor: Junior; Loc: SF Bay, USA; Posts: 79, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 11, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

jboyko had paint peeling above the exhaust on one side, but not the other. Maybe this is a "milder" form of whatever was ailing in his car.

jboyko are you out there?

Next
Threads

Aug 30, 2005 12:45:21 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Raptor

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Well, talked with dealer service really didn't get an answer about irregular soot deposits. They told me "doan worrrrrrry abow dit." I guess that's as far as it's going to go unless I join the Mafia and have their families kidnapped and ransomed for the information directly from Germany.

I cleaned the tailpipes (car now has 1200 miles) and will keep an eye on them to see if the soot stays imbalanced. Will update later.

Next
Threads

Sep 29, 2005 9:10:07 PM

hilsman: Newbie; Loc: MS; Posts: 18, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 20, 2005; Reply to: gradyex

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

As you know I too have the same issues....calls to several of the larger national dealers got me no where....have been told various things eg. richer at startup on one set of cylinders, oil leaking towards one side overnight, etc...this is all balderdash...I cleaned pipes and drove 300 miles (only stopping twice for a short time) using the throttle moderately at times and the soot is back( driver's side obviously greater than passenger's)....this is either an oil issue (rings??? though doesn't burn oil) or one bank of cylinders does run richer under load (what I think)...car is at dealer and will get a compression leak down test in AM....will let you know.....

Next
Threads

Sep 29, 2005 9:59:55 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: hilsman

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Quote:
hilsman said:
As you know I too have the same issues....calls to several of the larger national dealers got me no where....have been told various things eg. richer at startup on one set of cylinders, oil leaking towards one side overnight, etc...this is all balderdash...I cleaned pipes and drove 300 miles (only stopping twice for a short time) using the throttle moderately at times and the soot is back( driver's side obviously greater than passenger's)....this is either an oil issue (rings??? though doesn't burn oil) or one bank of cylinders does run richer under load (what I think)...car is at dealer and will get a compression leak down test in AM....will let you know.....

We all will be very appreciative to hear what they tell you from the test.

What's "good" news is the clue that everybody's getting the extra soot on the driver's side. I don't recall anyone getting it on the passenger's side; I could be wrong though. Anybody get it on the pass side?

Next
Threads

Sep 30, 2005 4:25:56 AM

MJSpeed: Junior; Loc: South Florida , United States; Posts: 80, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 31, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

On which side of the engine is the oil resevoir? But it definitely sounds like the left bank of cylinders is running richer...please let us know.

Next
Threads

Sep 30, 2005 5:16:03 AM

gradyex: Pilot; Loc: S.F. Bay Area, CA.; Posts: 334, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 21, 2004; Reply to: hilsman

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Looking forward to your results on the compression test also hilsman. I think it is time for Porsche to come up with the correct explanation for this 997S soot issue. Any 997 non-s cars with this issue? Also how common is this?(look closely inside the exhaust tips and compare the color of each bank. Please post even if the difference is slight (like my car). Thanks.

Next
Threads

Sep 30, 2005 8:34:17 PM

hilsman: Newbie; Loc: MS; Posts: 18, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 20, 2005; Reply to: hilsman

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

MMD & Gradyex,
Back from dealer...had compression test and leak down test done on engine....passed with flying colors!!!! No oil ring issues whatsoever for us to worry about... Computer check all OK as well....did some more testing myself using Innovate Motorsports wide band O2 sensor....while both banks of cylinders produced the same end results the right bank (feeds to driver's exhaust tips) dropped air/ fuel ratios quicker and I think this is the culprit...it's dumping in gas more rapidly on one side....am sure eventually this will result in some sort of fix. However, the good news is I did some performance tests and the car is A OK compared to track-challenge website and several mags!!!

I have officially put this to bed and will ENJOY....

Next
Threads

Sep 30, 2005 11:40:36 PM

gradyex: Pilot; Loc: S.F. Bay Area, CA.; Posts: 334, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 21, 2004; Reply to: hilsman

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Quote:
hilsman said:
MMD & Gradyex,
Back from dealer...had compression test and leak down test done on engine....passed with flying colors!!!! No oil ring issues whatsoever for us to worry about... Computer check all OK as well....did some more testing myself using Innovate Motorsports wide band O2 sensor....while both banks of cylinders produced the same end results the right bank (feeds to driver's exhaust tips) dropped air/ fuel ratios quicker and I think this is the culprit...it's dumping in gas more rapidly on one side....am sure eventually this will result in some sort of fix. However, the good news is I did some performance tests and the car is A OK compared to track-challenge website and several mags!!!

I have officially put this to bed and will ENJOY....

THANK YOU SO MUCH HILSMAN! AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I NEED TO WORRY ABOUT. APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR LEGWORK AND INFORMATION THAT YOU SHARED WITH US. I AM SURE MMD WILL BE HAPPY TO HEAR THE GOOD NEWS TOO! BEST OF LUCK TO YOU. DRIVE SAFELY!

Next
Threads

Oct 1, 2005 3:48:21 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: gradyex

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Verrrrrry interesting, hummmm.

Good news no compression difference. That means the PCA tech person made a wrong guess then? WTF? Does that mean a Porsche engineer would also make a right or wrong guess too?

I'm very grateful for your finding, hilsman, regarding "the right bank dropping air/fuel ratios faster" (though I don't understand exactly what this means). However, is this a defect in our engines? Or do all engines do this?

I'm happy with your thinking we don't have to be too concerned about it but, "eventually this will result in some sort of fix," leaves something to be desired, right? Unless ALL engines are doing this, I want the fix ASAP.

I'm relieved and greateful for your help but still: $100K for a car and I remind myself how much I "Expect Excellence." Having messy, unmatching (fake) quad tips doesn't satisfy this expectation.

Next
Threads

Oct 1, 2005 10:07:08 AM

hilsman: Newbie; Loc: MS; Posts: 18, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 20, 2005; Reply to: hilsman

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

MMD,
I used the term "dumping" as a metaphor...Under load from 2000rpms the right bank's air fuel ratios descended more quickly as compared to the left...I don't think there is anything wrong per se....Porsche engines have always had little oddities...
That this is not an oil issue is very reassuring to me...I can live with a fuel/ecu issue until enough feedback gets to porsche resulting in a specific fix....Gray

Next
Threads

Oct 1, 2005 3:07:56 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: hilsman

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Quote:

That this is not an oil issue is very reassuring to me...I can live with a fuel/ecu issue until enough feedback gets to porsche resulting in a specific fix....Gray

Good summary. Thanks for doing all the work figuring this out. So the chance of getting excess carbon build up in the exhaust valves and associated problems is zero?

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	4/17/24 7:16 AM Gnil	775005	1798
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	440471	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021)	5/12/23 12:11 PM W8MM	262122	288
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	260354	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	84859	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	5446	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	879511	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	814368	3868
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	389952	1526
Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	389163	1454
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	371389	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	368194	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	288557	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	261023	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	239624	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	229812	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	220787	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	168882	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	140772	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	117251	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	108415	685
Others	Valkyrie final design?	4/28/23 2:45 AM Rossi	99579	219
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	84035	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	75015	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	53432	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	24932	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21147	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19450	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16569	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	13583	225

Crown

Forum - Thread

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Re: Exhaust soot on each side doesn't match, now what?

Forum

Boards