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    Aug 11, 2005 7:14:18 PM

    frayed
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    frayed
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    997GT3 v. 996 GT3, prediction on

    laptimes. Just curious what y'all think. We know how much faster the 997 and 997S (PASM modes and in -20 sport suspension setup, which isn't available here in the US) are than the 996s.

    The 997S is turning in performance closing on the 996 GT3, especially in sport chassis configuration.

    Am I wrong to think that we'll also see a significant bump in GT3 performance, akin to what we've seen with the 997 and 997S? Or will the bump in performance be notably more modest as compared to the 996-997 evolution?

    Aug 11, 2005 7:28:40 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: frayed

    Re: 997GT3 v. 996 GT3, prediction on

    I don't think the bump in performance will be as noticeable becuase the 997S has PASM sport suspensions (or even the -20mm sport chasis with rear LSD which is sportier than the 996's M030 sport chasis) over the base 996. Besides the 35HP increase also.

    If you look at the base 997, the lap times are not much improved over the 996 since the suspensions are similar standard ones, and no noticeable bump in power. So I would think the 997GT3 will be in between in performance gains over the 996GT3 since it seems it will get 20-25HP gain but no noticeable suspension changes like the PASM/-20mm the 997S has. Laso in the GT3 there is less room for improvement over the MkII 996GT3 in lap times, while in the carrera there are many thing that you can greatly improve for lap times like just the -20mm alone.

    Aug 11, 2005 7:35:19 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: 997GT3 v. 996 GT3, prediction on

    I think the best clue comes from the 996GT3 Cup vs. the 997GT3 Cup laptimes. Konstantin reports quite a dramatic improvement with the 997Cup (PCCB MkII, sequential gearbox, etc.).

    Aug 11, 2005 8:40:21 PM

    frayed
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    frayed
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 997GT3 v. 996 GT3, prediction on

    Interesting. I saw those base 996 and 997 times as well. . . they weren't that far apart. OTOH, I heard of 2 second lap differentials on a 3 mile track b/t the 996 and 997 Cups. Sort of contrasting ways to look at things. . . but I would think that the Cup Car performance numbers would likely be more indicative.

    Aug 11, 2005 10:48:51 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: frayed

    Re: 997GT3 v. 996 GT3, prediction on

    Quote:
    frayed said:
    Interesting. I saw those base 996 and 997 times as well. . . they weren't that far apart. OTOH, I heard of 2 second lap differentials on a 3 mile track b/t the 996 and 997 Cups. Sort of contrasting ways to look at things. . . but I would think that the Cup Car performance numbers would likely be more indicative.


    Someone just posted today that the 997GT3 would come standard with the paddle shifter (DSG I assume). This would make it considerably different than the 996GT3 (for better or worse).

    Aug 17, 2005 12:08:09 PM

    BC
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 997GT3 v. 996 GT3, prediction on

    From another point of view...

    The Carrera S with X51 will be more powerful than both 996 GT3's, correct?

    So, to further "distance" the GT3 from the Carrera's, Porsche will have to make the jump in performance even greater because for some people, to save $$, why not just get a Cs, get the power upgrade, -20, extinguisher,aerokit, etc and viola ,you have a "GT3".

    Wont Porsche make something special to really make the GT3 a step above the Carrera's and prevent customers from just getting the Cs with the above specs??

    Aug 17, 2005 1:54:43 PM

    Texas911
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    Reply to: BC

    Re: 997GT3 v. 996 GT3, prediction on

    I'm sure it'll be better performing than the 996GT3, had Porsche ever released a new model that doesn't beat the old?

    Aug 17, 2005 3:23:16 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: Texas911

    Re: 997GT3 v. 996 GT3, prediction on

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    I'm sure it'll be better performing than the 996GT3, had Porsche ever released a new model that doesn't beat the old?


    YES, they certainly have! It was over a decade before the 1984 911 Carrera 3.2 had more power than a 1973 911S 2.4 and longer still (1987) before they had more power than the 1973 Carrera 2.7 - not to mention all the extra weight that was added in the meantime...

    Aug 17, 2005 4:20:57 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 997GT3 v. 996 GT3, prediction on

    1973 to the mid-80's doesn't count, as all auto manufacturers went backwards on power as they fumbled to deal with new emissions requirements and the new unleaded gas. Compression ratios dropped, exhaust systems were restrictive, etc... Since then, advancements and development in fuel delivery, combustion efficiency, ignition timing and control, and catalytic converter technology, as well as myriads of other advancements, have allowed the industry to eventually recapture the muscle they had in the 60's and early 70's, and now they greatly EXCEED it. People often forget that pre-1972 horsepower was measured SAE GROSS, rather than SAE NET. The little 3.8L flat six in our 997S, in reality, is almost as powerful as a stock 7.0L 426 Hemi was in 1969!!! And it runs much cleaner. Speaking of Hemis, the new 6.1L Hemi in the SRT vehicles is rated at 425 h.p. net. The 7.0L 426 Hemi in 1969 was 425 h.p. gross. So the modern Hemi is smaller, FAR cleaner, gets better mileage, and makes more power to boot! I don't need to tell you guys, we all know that we're smack in the middle of a "golden era" of horsepower, far greater than the old 60's Musclecar era.

    Aug 17, 2005 4:30:07 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: 997GT3 v. 996 GT3, prediction on

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    1973 to the mid-80's doesn't count, as all auto manufacturers went backwards on power as they fumbled to deal with new emissions requirements and the new unleaded gas. Compression ratios dropped, exhaust systems were restrictive, etc... Since then, advancements and development in fuel delivery, combustion efficiency, ignition timing and control, and catalytic converter technology, as well as myriads of other advancements, have allowed the industry to eventually recapture the muscle they had in the 60's and early 70's, and now they greatly EXCEED it. People often forget that pre-1972 horsepower was measured SAE GROSS, rather than SAE NET. The little 3.8L flat six in our 997S, in reality, is almost as powerful as a stock 7.0L 426 Hemi was in 1969!!! And it runs much cleaner. Speaking of Hemis, the new 6.1L Hemi in the SRT vehicles is rated at 425 h.p. net. The 7.0L 426 Hemi in 1969 was 425 h.p. gross. So the modern Hemi is smaller, FAR cleaner, gets better mileage, and makes more power to boot! I don't need to tell you guys, we all know that we're smack in the middle of a "golden era" of horsepower, far greater than the old 60's Musclecar era.


    Good points. However, I don't think that Europeans HP ratings were screwy like that in that timeframe. Also, I believe Ferraris of that era made no such backwards slide in performance (365 and 512 Boxers were pretty stout compared to the Daytonas of the pre-73 era)

    Aug 18, 2005 6:53:43 AM

    BC
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 997GT3 v. 996 GT3, prediction on

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    I'm sure it'll be better performing than the 996GT3, had Porsche ever released a new model that doesn't beat the old?


    YES, they certainly have! It was over a decade before the 1984 911 Carrera 3.2 had more power than a 1973 911S 2.4 and longer still (1987) before they had more power than the 1973 Carrera 2.7 - not to mention all the extra weight that was added in the meantime...



    + if i'm correct the 993 turbo was/is just as fast as a 996T, in a straight line at least. (if my memory is correct)

     
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