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Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
rfakhri said:
Thinking about the existence of PCCB (which I'm not going for) makes me worry about damaging my new Cayman S standard brakes.
What? The standard brakes on the Cayman S are the same as the great Brembos on the 997. What are you possibly worried about?
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
rfakhri said:
Thinking about the existence of PCCB (which I'm not going for) makes me worry about damaging my new Cayman S standard brakes.
What? The standard brakes on the Cayman S are the same as the great Brembos on the 997. What are you possibly worried about?
I believe the standard Cayman S brakes are the exact same as Boxster S brakes. Don't know the measurements of the base 911 brakes, but they are probably close to or the same as the Cayman/Boxster S.
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
MikeN said:Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
rfakhri said:
Thinking about the existence of PCCB (which I'm not going for) makes me worry about damaging my new Cayman S standard brakes.
What? The standard brakes on the Cayman S are the same as the great Brembos on the 997. What are you possibly worried about?
I believe the standard Cayman S brakes are the exact same as Boxster S brakes. Don't know the measurements of the base 911 brakes, but they are probably close to or the same as the Cayman/Boxster S.
Not sure about the 987/997 but the 986S had the same brakes as the 996...
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
rfakhri said:
Thinking about the existence of PCCB (which I'm not going for) makes me worry about damaging my new Cayman S standard brakes.
What? The standard brakes on the Cayman S are the same as the great Brembos on the 997. What are you possibly worried about?
My understanding is that the PCCB are more suitable for the track.
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
I track my 986S every two or so months, and the brakes are fine. They are 996 brakes, and I believe 987S/Cayman S uses 997 Brembos. Those brembos used to be the best thing for the track, and then suddenly this PCCB comes around and people are doubting the ability of the Brembos for track! Anyway, I will be tracking the Cayman S. As my dealer says, why buy a Porsche if you are not going to track it? 
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
WAY said:
As my dealer says, why buy a Porsche if you are not going to track it?
Does that include the Cayenne?? Kind of a dumb remark by the dealer IMO.....what about drivers of C4S cabs? (or insert any other model here)....I guess they HAVE to track to? Just because you want/have one of the best sports cars available doesn't mean you have to track it. I'm looking for the best street car first....where it will spend most of its time, and a good track car also.
What about Porsche owners that heavily track their cars, but take it into the dealer to have a dead battery replaced or an oil change done?.....real "Porsche" drivers or posers?
I'm one Porsche owner that doesn't track a whole lot, but do all my own work including engine & tranny rebuilds,.....am I a good or bad Porsche owner?
Each Porsche owner should enjoy their car exactly how they want.....street, track, or just looking at it in the garage.
The stock brakes should be just fine for the track and if you go through a few sets of pads/rotors that's the cost of tracking the car in the first place. How many brakes could you go through for the cost PCCB? If PCCB was $2-$3K I'd think about it, until then......I'll guess I'll make do with the "old" stuff.
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
MikeN said:Quote:
WAY said:
As my dealer says, why buy a Porsche if you are not going to track it?
Does that include the Cayenne?? Kind of a dumb remark by the dealer IMO.....what about drivers of C4S cabs? (or insert any other model here)....I guess they HAVE to track to? Just because you want/have one of the best sports cars available doesn't mean you have to track it. I'm looking for the best street car first....where it will spend most of its time, and a good track car also.
What about Porsche owners that heavily track their cars, but take it into the dealer to have a dead battery replaced or an oil change done?.....real "Porsche" drivers or posers?
I'm one Porsche owner that doesn't track a whole lot, but do all my own work including engine & tranny rebuilds,.....am I a good or bad Porsche owner?
Each Porsche owner should enjoy their car exactly how they want.....street, track, or just looking at it in the garage.
The stock brakes should be just fine for the track and if you go through a few sets of pads/rotors that's the cost of tracking the car in the first place. How many brakes could you go through for the cost PCCB? If PCCB was $2-$3K I'd think about it, until then......I'll guess I'll make do with the "old" stuff.
Actually it was the service manager at the dealer who said that to me. He knows I like to track my cars occasionally and hence the comment. I don't think they expect that everyone will be tracking their Porsches. One thing good about Porsche Australia is that they encourage ppl to track their cars, even providing technicians for the organised track days that I attend. I hear that in the US they may void your warranty if you track the car in some circumstances? My gear linkage broke at the track after warranty period, and they still towed the car and fixed it for free. Now that is service.
Oh btw, you are a good Porsche owner, as you are the type that I would buy a used Porsche from!
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
At least in the US advice from dealers about tracking your car should be taken with a grain of salt. Tracking or "racing" your car can result in voiding any part of your warranty that either the dealer or manufacturer decide was violated by such use. The image doesn't alwasys fit with reality.
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
rfakhri said:
My understanding is that the PCCB are more suitable for the track.
PCCB are more suitable for Porsche, since it creates alot more income for them. The standard steel brakes are superb and rotors are relatively inexpensive to replace. PCCB in its first generation (GT2, GT3 and 996TT before the 996TTS) were horrible on the track - very short life.
The second generation PCCB (997 and 996TTS) are far improved, but they do not offer improved stopping distances (just better handling and acceleration from reduced weight and possibly better pedal feel). They still are prohibitively expensive to replace and do not last long enough to justify their much higher cost. If I were to buy a Cayman for the track and I could have either braking system included with the car's purchase for the same price (but still have to pay the replacement costs), I would certainly choose the steel brakes.
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
In earlier posts there has been some users fitting "supercup" steelrotors on GT3 cars. Would anybody know if possible to order the "supercup" steel rotors from tequipment as a factory option, or alternatively after delivery. Technically they should be able to stop the car, but does it makes sence and will they fit ?
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
tso said:
In earlier posts there has been some users fitting "supercup" steelrotors on GT3 cars. Would anybody know if possible to order the "supercup" steel rotors from tequipment as a factory option, or alternatively after delivery. Technically they should be able to stop the car, but does it makes sence and will they fit ?
Those rotors don't fit on the Cayman's hubs (nor with the calipers)- not an option, AFAIK
Aug 9, 2005 7:25:04 AM
- Avantgarde
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- Reply to: Carrageous
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
Grant said:
The second generation PCCB (997 and 996TTS) are far improved, but they do not offer improved stopping distances (just better handling and acceleration from reduced weight and possibly better pedal feel). They still are prohibitively expensive to replace and do not last long enough to justify their much higher cost.
Here's what I've been taught by my driving teacher and pro racer, Jean-Marc Bachelier.
Indeed 2nd gen. PCCB are much better and fade is non existant, but the main reason he told me to get them is the better handling, car becomes totally neutral and no understeer whatsoever.
which means awesome fun on track.I test drove one briefly and I can confirm also that pedal feel is greatly enhanced, in my 996, you need to press the pedal quite a bit, it feels spongious, same in the 996 Turbo, don't know about the 997S but same brakes as 996 Turbo so...
With PCCB, bite is instant, it's like you foot is actually on the brakes themselves!
Now about replacement, they are indeed very expensive but you shouldn't need to replace, even Porsche states they last for over 300000 km. But a lot of PCCB equipped cars end up with new disks, here's why and it's a common mistake that every client should be aware of if they plan to track they PCCB car:
Because there's no fade, on the track, you just carry on and on and on and on and on...
Thinking your disks are just fine, which they are, but not the pads! And then once the pads are gone, you bite into the disks and they cost a fortune to replace.
PCCB brake pads are more expensive than steel brakes pads but definitely reasonnable.
Hope this helps to all future PCCB owners.
On the open roads, braking is not better, it's mostly the better feel and the better handling.
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
boytronic said:
On another note - could the fact that the Cayman has the "wet sump" engine (as opposed to the race-bred Turbo/GT2/3 block) affect it's reliability/durability after track racing?
Yes, it means that you should not drive with racing slick tires nor drive on tracks with steep banked corners...
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
Fanch said:
Now about replacement, they are indeed very expensive but you shouldn't need to replace, even Porsche states they last for over 300000 km.
Fanch - thanks for the interesting info, but I have to suggest that the 300,000km figure does not apply to track driving. I believe that the Cup racing teams are hoping that they can get through the season with 2 sets of rotors and the mileage there is a small fraction of Porsche's claim...
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
boytronic said:
On another note - could the fact that the Cayman has the "wet sump" engine (as opposed to the race-bred Turbo/GT2/3 block) affect it's reliability/durability after track racing?
Yes, it means that you should not drive with racing slick tires nor drive on tracks with steep banked corners...
Neither could F1 cars with Michelin tyres.
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
boytronic said:
On another note - could the fact that the Cayman has the "wet sump" engine (as opposed to the race-bred Turbo/GT2/3 block) affect it's reliability/durability after track racing?
Yes, it means that you should not drive with racing slick tires nor drive on tracks with steep banked corners...
Actually, a steep banked circuit is less of a problem than a tight bend on a level track. Centrifugal force would tend to throw the oil towards the pick-up at the bottom of the sump on a steeply banked circuit, instead of off to the side.
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
boytronic said:
On another note - could the fact that the Cayman has the "wet sump" engine (as opposed to the race-bred Turbo/GT2/3 block) affect it's reliability/durability after track racing?
Yes, it means that you should not drive with racing slick tires nor drive on tracks with steep banked corners...
Actually, a steep banked circuit is less of a problem than a tight bend on a level track. Centrifugal force would tend to throw the oil towards the pick-up at the bottom of the sump on a steeply banked circuit, instead of off to the side.
I think there is only a pickup on one side of the engine (or is there one on each?), so it could be a problem depending on the track and the direction of travel...
I know that one of the tracks I drive (it's a One Mile banked oval with an alternate infield section) is a problem for many street cars for oiling reasons. They close the banked corners and make you cut across the infield to prevent oil starvation (not a problem for my 2 dry sump P-cars...)
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
Quote:
Grant said:
I think there is only a pickup on one side of the engine (or is there one on each?), so it could be a problem depending on the track and the direction of travel...
I believe it is in the center. Ovals would otherwise not be a problem, as long as they always went "your" way!
Quote:
Grant said:
I know that one of the tracks I drive (it's a One Mile banked oval with an alternate infield section) is a problem for many street cars for oiling reasons. They close the banked corners and make you cut across the infield to prevent oil starvation (not a problem for my 2 dry sump P-cars...)
I should have been more specific.
To work well at "real" speed, a central single oil pickup would have to run on a "wall-of-death" banking, so that the pickup would be sitting in the oil!
Re: Who's Going To Track It ????
TSO, i just noticed ur icon. at glance i saw it as a gt3rs but i have now come to notice that u've got urself a "cayman rs" interpretation.
can we se a bigger pic of that piece of work?
if i've got it all wrong someone let me know - my eyesight ain't at exactly 20-20 lately...
can we se a bigger pic of that piece of work?
if i've got it all wrong someone let me know - my eyesight ain't at exactly 20-20 lately...
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