Aug 5, 2005 3:50:09 AM
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Ron (Houston)
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
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Aug 5, 2005 4:10:47 AM
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Turbo Al
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Ron (Houston)
Aug 5, 2005 9:29:51 AM
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Ron (Houston)
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Aug 5, 2005 9:06:14 PM
- dnp_now
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Re: Winding Road - Interesting Issue
I don't think its fair to compare the F430 to the 911s, as the price difference are totally out of whack.
Though visually, I think both cars are beautiful. The one thing the F430 lacks are the rear seats, which do come in handy to pick up and drop off extra passengers when needed.
Though visually, I think both cars are beautiful. The one thing the F430 lacks are the rear seats, which do come in handy to pick up and drop off extra passengers when needed.
Re: Winding Road - Interesting Issue
Quote:
dnp_now said:
I don't think its fair to compare the F430 to the 911s, as the price difference are totally out of whack.
Though visually, I think both cars are beautiful. The one thing the F430 lacks are the rear seats, which do come in handy to pick up and drop off extra passengers when needed.
This was exactly what I was "driving at" (if you'll pardon the expression) when I asked Ron where the 996TT was in the rankings. Sure, the 997 is the "updated" 911, but the 997TT isn't out yet, and the 996TT is still being built new (as the TSCoupe/Cab, of course) for 2005. Perhaps, Winding Road didn't want 3 P cars in the top rankings (along with the Boxster).
I have the same view of the C&D article in their latest issue comparing several sports cars (F430, 996TSCab, DB9, SL65AMG, Lambo). My impression was this was a "forced" comparo., with such disparities between cars as coupe vs. convertible (e.g., F430, DB9 vs. 996TSCab, SL65AMG), auto vs. manual trannies (e.g., SL65AMG vs. 996TSCab), the only close similarities being $$$ (in fact, I think the 996TSCab was the "bargain" of the bunch-at less than $150K in the USA). The other funny thing was that the 996TT is the outgoing/"dated"/presumably "primitively" engineered 911 turbo (relative to its anticipated 997TT replacement-of course I'm exaggerating and being too sarcastic), and yet it was second only to the Ford GT in 0-60 times. And C&D criticized the 996TT for being "spooky" in its handling with PSM off (making one wonder if they didn't know how to drive it
). Not that the F430 (#1 in C&D's comparo.) is overrated; one of my friend's drives one and it's awesome (at least from my experience riding in the passenger seat ).Nevertheless, the Winding Road e-articles are very well done, IMO, they did a good job a few issues back with a column on the DB9, and I look forward to test driving both the DB9 and AMV8 this winter.
Any thoughts?
Aug 7, 2005 3:02:08 AM
- Gary No Cal
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Re: Winding Road - Interesting Issue
I also thought the article was well written and a fun read. Thanks, Ron for the info. Althought the 997 S came in a close second to the F430, considering the Ferrari is twice the price, the 997 S, in my book, won.
I hope they do a rematch with the 997 GT3 against the F430.
I hope they do a rematch with the 997 GT3 against the F430.
Aug 7, 2005 7:55:33 AM
- vtach88
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Re: Winding Road - Interesting Issue
Quote:
Gary No Cal said:
Althought the 997 S came in a close second to the F430, considering the Ferrari is twice the price, the 997 S, in my book, won.
And to think some people crucify Corvette lovers when they try to make a similar arguement about their car vs. the 911....
Re: Winding Road - Interesting Issue
Quote:
vtach88 said:
And to think some people crucify Corvette lovers when they try to make a similar arguement about their car vs. the 911....
Usually that's because:
1. those corvette 'lovers' put ONLY the price into equation, leaving everything else aside. This wasnt' the case here
2. Some people are just snobs
Aug 7, 2005 12:36:44 PM
- Fred 993C4S
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Re: Winding Road - Interesting Issue
I think the article was very good and fair. It really gave no weight at all to money and cost of ownership but it stuck to the cars looks, driving experience, etc. The 997S was twice the cost ( or more) of everything else on the top 8 other than the DB9, just think what the guys on those boards are saying about their cars being compared against a 997S and an F430? I feel good about my decision in which car to buy.
Aug 7, 2005 3:29:53 PM
- Gary No Cal
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Re: Winding Road - Interesting Issue
Quote:
vtach88 said:Quote:
Gary No Cal said:
Althought the 997 S came in a close second to the F430, considering the Ferrari is twice the price, the 997 S, in my book, won.
And to think some people crucify Corvette lovers when they try to make a similar arguement about their car vs. the 911....
I have not been one to bash Corvette lovers using the cost comparison. I think the Corvette is a good value for what you get. Loads of performance but not the engaging road/track feel of a Porsche or Ferrari, that subjective driving experience that is hard to discribe. That cost extra. I haven't driven the C6 so this opinion is based on C5 drives and what I have read about the C6. Oh and let's not forget the quality factor. 20 years from now the 997 will still be an engaging, fun ride still very cabable of doing a track day. Not so for a 20 year old Corvette with out rebuilding it, they show their age much more than a Porsche.
Another point on comparisons that is not fair when price is mentioned as a factor is the resale value. The Porsche makes up a lot of ground on a Corvette when comparing residual values on resale which is the real world we all have to deal with. If a Vette cost $55K new and is worth $35K in 3 yrs, the Vette owner has lost $20K. I hope my $90K 997 S will be worth $65K in 3yrs, a lost of $25K. That's only $5K diference in losted equity . Adding the cost of using the $45K difference in price for 3yrs., maybe another $7K at 5% cost of funds rate. In my book the 997S wins when the true cost difference is $12K not $45K.
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'06 997 S (this week!!)
'01 Audi S8
'97 Boxster
'04 Ski Doo Summit 800 X
Aug 7, 2005 5:41:51 PM
- STRADALE
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Ron (Houston)
Aug 8, 2005 6:38:22 PM
- Modrocket_stereo
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Re: Winding Road - Interesting Issue
Quote:
STRADALE said:
Thans Ron.
I didn't know about this mag before.
Just signed up for 3 years emailed sub.
Great article 997/ 430.
Silver 997, Red 430
I didn't know it either. Great article in deed.
Think you and me made the right decision, don't you think so?
Re: Winding Road - Interesting Issue
Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
STRADALE said:
Thans Ron.
I didn't know about this mag before.
Just signed up for 3 years emailed sub.
Great article 997/ 430.
Silver 997, Red 430
I didn't know it either. Great article in deed.
Think you and me made the right decision, don't you think so?
Yup. Was thinking the same thing.
Re: Winding Road - Interesting Issue
I read the article, and I also thought it was good. One thing I would love to see though...a comparison of 997S, Corvette, and Ferrari 430 after one year of ownership. I'd bet the 997S would win hands down. That's always the issue with these comparisons--they use brand new "out of the box" cars. Let's put a year on each, and include the aggravation factors of repair time, ability to drive (or not drive) in certain conditions, and problems with wear due to inferior parts, etc.
The auto mags do include "long term tests" but never as a direct comparison.
The auto mags do include "long term tests" but never as a direct comparison.
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