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964C2 said:
It's not who is the best ultimate driver....there should be a test on the same day with the same driver and different cars. That way we would get the relative performance between the cars, not different drivers and different weather and track conditions.
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itry2hide said:Quote:
964C2 said:
It's not who is the best ultimate driver....there should be a test on the same day with the same driver and different cars. That way we would get the relative performance between the cars, not different drivers and different weather and track conditions.
You are full of complete European BS. Saurma who? I want someone driving the car to it's maximum potential, not some European car lover that would hate to see American horsepower outrun the megabuck European rivals.
European car magazine review of an American car? Pleeeeeese pass the plate of bias., editors have bias, and I bet they give the car short shrift, even while it outperforms the megabuck European competition. I'll take the combined results from Car and Driver, Road and Track, and Autoweek over Sportauto any day.
As to the 16 second (or 17) second difference by Mr Saurbrain, I can tell you this with utmost certainly; I drive a 2004 C5 Z06 at many DE days in Northern CA, up to 8 per year. In particular, Thunderhill, Infineon, and Laguna Seca. I may not always outrun the two or three GT3's I come across, but they aren't pulling way either. If the C6 Z06 Magnussun was driving had DOT legal slicks like the GT3 RS, the difference would be 8 seconds, not .1
All this BS about having driven the car to the limit - hey, you don't think the other drivers were taking their cars to the limit? With only one hour of testing, Magnussun's lap time is very impressive. I can't wait until delivery of my new C6 Z06. Then all of you naysayer Porsche sycophants can watch my tail lights as a pull away.
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You are more than entitled to your congruent or different views - in particular if they are backed by enthusiasm and perhaps even a good argument or two.
I truly hope you will enjoy your new Corvette, and I also hope you will fenjoy Rennteam.
Might I suggest adopting a slightly different tone when adressing people in here?
To me, you come across as someone who is personally offended by other peoples views on the NBR testing or feel provoked by people who don't share your views, and therefore pull out the old "mine is bigger than yours" routine.
A good piece of advice is; Take it easy. We are talking cars here... and most topics in here are not worth getting into a fight about.
Welcome and enjoy.
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964C2 said:
It's not who is the best ultimate driver....there should be a test on the same day with the same driver and different cars. That way we would get the relative performance between the cars, not different drivers and different weather and track conditions.
Jul 31, 2005 12:28:54 AM
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itry2hide said:Quote:
You are more than entitled to your congruent or different views - in particular if they are backed by enthusiasm and perhaps even a good argument or two.
I truly hope you will enjoy your new Corvette, and I also hope you will fenjoy Rennteam.
Might I suggest adopting a slightly different tone when adressing people in here?
To me, you come across as someone who is personally offended by other peoples views on the NBR testing or feel provoked by people who don't share your views, and therefore pull out the old "mine is bigger than yours" routine.
A good piece of advice is; Take it easy. We are talking cars here... and most topics in here are not worth getting into a fight about.
Welcome and enjoy.
Point well taken, please forgive my overly aggressive stance.
I guess I was responding to what I consider and unfair assessment of a car that hasn't even been delivered to the general public yet. Statements like "GM souped up the car, get someone else to drive it, it must have more horsepower than stock" lead me to believe that people want the car to do poorly.
These statement are supposition, and in fact do not support any information currently available. The car did 7:42.9. That is stated. Because Magnussen said it was close in BHP to his LeMans C6 means nothing. Maybe 100bhp is close to him, considering he is compairing it to the LeMans car he drives.
Did the car look out of wack in that picture. It sure did. But many cars have broken right at that spot. Also, why would any car manufacturer want their first run for time on the 'ring be done by anyone but a qualified driver. European drivers usually drive mid or rear engine cars, that are high revving, high output, with very little low end torque. Asking someone not familiar with the particular engine layout/engine output to drive the car in a sufficently reasonable manner is unfair. It's like asking a Formula One driver to drive Jeff Gordon's car in a Nextel Cup race. The Formula One driver may do well, but no where near as well as Jeff Gordon.
Having said that, I do appologize if I offended anyone. It's taken a long time for the Corvette to reach what many consider super car performance. Let's all keep our shorts on until real testing is done, by drivers that are familiar with the performance characteristics of the C6.
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itry2hide said:
Point well taken, please forgive my overly aggressive stance.
, just do it with a smile 
Jul 31, 2005 4:36:56 PM
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Jimi said:
Hello,
All-in-all, a good discussion regarding the C6Z, even those who are having a difficult time with the reported time of 2:42:9.
Firstly, some clarification regarding the official GM times at NBR:
2:56:x - 2004 C5Z
2:59:x - 2005 Z51 C6
Those times were done with a competent driver behind the wheel. Whoever reported a 3:18-ish in a Z51 C6 simply cannot drive as well as John Heinricy, Magnussen, Stuck, or Rohrl. Therefore, with the above-mentioned drivers behind their respective steering-wheel, I feel confident that those times represent best-case-scenarios for each car, thus providing a solid foundation for meaningful comparisons. One manufacturer's best-car/best-driver against another's; this is good stuff for all enthusiasts providing plenty of relevant info for those who like to bench-race on the boards, and those who take it out on the track.
For example, and food-for-thought: The 2:42:9 was delivered on run-craps; imagine if GM ran it too with DOT's like the GT3 RS when it clocked in at 2:43:0. It is safe to say the C6Z's time would have improved considerably.
Aug 1, 2005 12:12:36 AM
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Carlos from Spain said:
So lets all wait till Saurma and SportAuto gets to test the new Z06 and then we can discuss the lap times...
So far we have a Z51-C6 lap time of 8:15 (while GM published a 7:56).
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HoboPie said:
He drives dozens of cars a year, at the ring. He doesn't know any individual car sufficiently well to drive it "properly". He can't take any car to its absolute max, and that is the point.
Despite the fact that he may not be able to take a car to its absolute limit in a couple laps, he is fairly consistent. He didn't take the Murcielago, Ferrari 360 CS, GT3, Carrera GT etc... to their limits. People have put up faster times in those cars.
The corvette is not unique, so while Saurma's lap in the C6 may not be comparable to GM's lap it is comparable to his laps in other cars.
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itry2hide said:
So, a front engine, rear wheel drive car handles just like a mid-engine, or rear-engine car.
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Grant said:Quote:
itry2hide said:
So, a front engine, rear wheel drive car handles just like a mid-engine, or rear-engine car.
The Corvette is not like a typical front-engined car. The engine is mounted well behind the front wheels and the transaxle is in the rear...
Aug 1, 2005 8:31:47 PM
Aug 1, 2005 9:11:32 PM
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So Carlos, are you really trying tp say that Saurma is the better choice then Magnussen to get the best lap time at the ring
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its actually easier to produce a better lap time in a CGT than a vette.
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Brunner, if the CGT isnt the better handling and faster car than a Z06, then we have real problems
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The only fantasies here are these..
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That Magnussen would be slower than Saurma in a Corvette
at the ring
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That Magnussen is lying about his lap Z06 times.
Aug 1, 2005 10:58:01 PM
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JimFlat6 said:
So Carlos, are you really trying tp say that Saurma is the better choice then Magnussen to get the best lap time at the ring?
I dont think that the vette is just "another" one like you say. The cars that you listed have more handling precision and better high speed stability than a Corvette.
Magnussen was quite clear when he said he that the car pushed to extreme limits is dangereous and really scary.
Will Saurma really push it to that same extreme? I doubt it.
Magnussen proved that HE could make such a fast lap time
in a Corvette. What Saurma will do is probably going to be different, because he is not the same class of championship racing professional as Magnussen is. Its that simple.
Aug 2, 2005 1:01:31 AM
Aug 2, 2005 7:35:49 AM
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JimFlat6 said:
... who is the most qualified? somebody not married to one brand, someone independant of any maker, someone with extensive experience with all cars and not specifically one in particular, someone very scrupulous and serious about his work, someone who knows the testing grounds like his own home's hallway... do I need to speel it out?
Carlos, You are are saying that Magnussen is a liar and that The CGT is a less stable car than a Corvette Z06 is.
Think about that!
I think you are conflicted!
Magnussen makes one heroic lap of the Ring and for that he gets called a liar and suddenly the Porsche is a harder car to drive with less handling and less traction than a over engined Corvette on tractor tires!
You must have a good sense of humor!
I said its better handling but harder to drive... just like a GT3 is more stable than a Kia Picanto but harder to drive.
Aug 2, 2005 6:14:55 PM
Aug 2, 2005 6:40:39 PM
Aug 2, 2005 7:45:55 PM
Does saurma own a VCR and some basic hand tools??
Aug 2, 2005 9:30:24 PM
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JimFlat6 said:
I disagree with your driver "real world" mumbo jumbo.
Nobody on this board can duplicate Walter Rorhls time in a CGT or Cayman, but isnt he the best guy to do the job? Its the same with Magnussen and a Corvette. Charachterizing his drive as that of a unwitting jockey seems over done.
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