Crown
CloseForum - Thread
Nov 1, 2023 8:43:47 AM
-
996FourEss
- Veteran
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 809, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 15, 2011
- Reply to: Pilot
Re: Tesla
Interesting. I was discussing with an investor the other day the whole notion of auto workshops. His view is these will face a lot of headwinds over the next 20 years as the will be much less need for mechanics. Less oily parts, less hoses, etc. Runs a little counter to the above. Thoughts?
Nov 1, 2023 8:43:57 AM
-
996FourEss
- Veteran
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 809, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 15, 2011
- Reply to: 996FourEss
Re: Tesla
Interesting. I was discussing with an investor the other day the whole notion of auto workshops. His view is these will face a lot of headwinds over the next 20 years as the will be much less need for mechanics. Less oily parts, less hoses, etc. Runs a little counter to the above. Thoughts?
Nov 1, 2023 6:43:50 PM
-
Pilot
- Veteran
-
- Loc: California , United States
- Posts: 1239, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 8, 2007
- Reply to: 996FourEss
Re: Tesla
996FourEss:Interesting. I was discussing with an investor the other day the whole notion of auto workshops. His view is these will face a lot of headwinds over the next 20 years as the will be much less need for mechanics. Less oily parts, less hoses, etc. Runs a little counter to the above. Thoughts?
I think a future challenge will be finding good mechanics who still possess analog skills.
--
If I don't fly, I drive my .:RS :)
Nov 4, 2023 12:07:47 PM
- Leawood911
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: Kansas, USA , United States
- Posts: 6924, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 29, 2006
- Reply to: CGX car nut
Nov 4, 2023 1:25:38 PM
-
Carlos from Spain
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Spain. , Spain
- Posts: 21155, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
-
Reply to:
RC
Re: Tesla
RC:CGX car nut:RC:CGX car nut:I don’t see what is so stellar about that range when diesel tractor trailers are capable often capable of traveling over 2,400 kilometers before refueling in about 10-15 minutes.
Hey, you stole this argument from one of Trump's last interviews.
How clean is that lignite that your country is burning to keep the lights and heat on?
How does it feel to support a politician who has a personality disorder? (hint: a narcissistic personality disorder is in the same spectrum as psychopathy
and it can shift).
In the beginning, I supported Trump but when I saw what he did during the Corona pandemic and when he got under pressure from Dems and the media, I realized that he is sick.
Any good doctor can give you the same diagnosis, it is a pity that potential presidents in the US aren't tested for mental issues before they enter office. No, I do not like Biden.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)
Nov 7, 2023 11:19:43 PM
-
Whoopsy
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada
- Posts: 16151, Gallery
- Registered on: Sep 19, 2006
-
Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: Tesla
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45754176/toyota-manual-ev-prototype-drive/
It would seems Toyota's engineers and I think alike, mating a manual to an EV, including the clutch pedal and the H pattern. Sort of.
But really it's not much different than modern manuals anyways, the computer did most of the work for the driver already, unlike old school true manuals.
--
Nov 8, 2023 3:16:51 PM
-
996FourEss
- Veteran
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 809, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 15, 2011
-
Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: Tesla
Carlos from Spain:RC:CGX car nut:RC:CGX car nut:I don’t see what is so stellar about that range when diesel tractor trailers are capable often capable of traveling over 2,400 kilometers before refueling in about 10-15 minutes.
Hey, you stole this argument from one of Trump's last interviews.
How clean is that lignite that your country is burning to keep the lights and heat on?
How does it feel to support a politician who has a personality disorder? (hint: a narcissistic personality disorder is in the same spectrum as psychopathy
In the beginning, I supported Trump but when I saw what he did during the Corona pandemic and when he got under pressure from Dems and the media, I realized that he is sick.
Any good doctor can give you the same diagnosis, it is a pity that potential presidents in the US aren't tested for mental issues before they enter office. No, I do not like Biden.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)
Well all of this sort of became moot. Bloomberg reporting interest payments on fed govt debt to pass $1 trillion and become largest single item on federal budget….
Nov 30, 2023 9:00:05 PM
- CGX car nut
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: NWI , United States
- Posts: 5194, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 17, 2011
- Reply to: 996FourEss
Re: Tesla
Cybertruck debut starts of extremely polished and professional, then Elon. He ain’t Steve Jobs. After a series of stammerings about being bulletproof, rustproof, the future, and quicker than a Porsche 911 while towing a Porsche 911, he starts putting new owners in the their trucks. Never at any point does he mention price or range. Typical. The website states that the rear wheel drive version available in 2025 is around $50,000 with the top model called Cyberbeast being nearly $100,000. So much for the $39,000 price recited four years ago. Inflation evidently.
Nov 30, 2023 10:25:07 PM
- CGX car nut
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: NWI , United States
- Posts: 5194, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 17, 2011
- Reply to: CGX car nut
Dec 1, 2023 2:54:16 AM
- CGX car nut
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: NWI , United States
- Posts: 5194, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 17, 2011
- Reply to: CGX car nut
Re: Tesla
This surprises me. The range extender is an inelegant solution. https://electrek.co/2023/11/30/tesla-cybertruck-range-extender-separate-battery-pack-bed/
Dec 1, 2023 9:27:20 AM
-
Carlos from Spain
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Spain. , Spain
- Posts: 21155, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
- Reply to: CGX car nut
Re: Tesla
CGX car nut:This surprises me. The range extender is an inelegant solution. https://electrek.co/2023/11/30/tesla-cybertruck-range-extender-separate-battery-pack-bed/
This is what you get when you have non-car people make cars, in this case trucks. He says it's for very long trips yet it takes up 1/3 of your storage space which likely what you are going to need if you take a long trip, and without a built in gas generator forget about a trip to anywhere without a charging spot either....
Dec 1, 2023 3:00:37 PM
- CGX car nut
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: NWI , United States
- Posts: 5194, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 17, 2011
-
Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: Tesla
Over promise and under deliver. https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-promised-39000-tesla-cybertruck-actually-costs-60990
Dec 1, 2023 6:51:05 PM
- CGX car nut
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: NWI , United States
- Posts: 5194, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 17, 2011
- Reply to: CGX car nut
Re: Tesla
Perhaps, I was a bit premature on the under deliver aspect of the Cybertruck. https://youtu.be/L6WDq0V5oBg?si=WxXEq_cea-bznclJ
Dec 3, 2023 2:24:01 PM
- CGX car nut
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: NWI , United States
- Posts: 5194, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 17, 2011
- Reply to: CGX car nut
Re: Tesla
Winter driving Audi RS4 versus Tesla Model 3 Performance. https://youtu.be/flmh3DhryfI?si=VxTSyMEFxWxhHg-r Tesla is getting close but still not quite there; however, the Tesla does have some strengths. That written, the Audi is the more interesting of the two and the preferred choice, if available in the States. We only receive the RS5 coupé and Sportback.
Dec 7, 2023 6:56:28 PM
-
Whoopsy
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada
- Posts: 16151, Gallery
- Registered on: Sep 19, 2006
- Reply to: CGX car nut
Re: Tesla
https://insideevs.com/news/699689/tesla-sixt-ev-fleet/
So the myth that EVs are cheaper to repair/service and more reliable is busted.
These are car rental companies with big volume and miles driven, can't get anymore real world than that.
--
Dec 7, 2023 7:06:17 PM
- CGX car nut
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: NWI , United States
- Posts: 5194, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 17, 2011
-
Reply to:
Whoopsy
Re: Tesla
Want a shiny new Tesla Cybertruck in the foreseeable future, get ready to pay at least $120,000 for the Founder’s Series edition, not the $100,000 Beast announced during last week’s handoff event. Smoke and mirrors once again and proof that the production volume is no where near the 60 per hour Munro was bloviating about in his video paens to Musk. https://insideevs.com/news/699666/tesla-cybertruck-founders-edition-price/
Dec 10, 2023 2:12:26 PM
- Boxster Coupe GTS
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: UK , United Kingdom
- Posts: 5886, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 23, 2005
- Reply to: CGX car nut
Re: Tesla
“My experience taking Tesla to court about FSD” (and winning) 
(Tesla Motors Club, UK Tesla owner, November 2023)
“I'll start with a really quick summary. I bought a Model 3, taking delivery in July 2019 and paying £5800 for the FSD extra. My view was that Tesla had failed to deliver on the contract with how they described FSD at the time, and so I ended up taking them to court for £5800 plus interest and costs. Just before the court hearing was about to take place, Tesla settled with me, the core of the settlement being:
- FSD removed from my car, e.g. just standard Autopilot
- Tesla paying me a little over £8000
That's the summary, if you'd like to hear more read on! I posted a thread earlier this year (February) to find out if anyone had previous experience suing Tesla about FSD:
No one was able/willing to come forward with their experience, so this post is to help others out who were in the position I was.
I took delivery of my Model 3 in the first batch on 20/06/2019 - I think this may have been the first day for delivery. I had ticked the FSD option, which was £5800 on the order agreement. When ordered my Model 3 I was pretty excited about FSD - they were saying the city streets feature was going to be ready by the end of 2019, and had posted the video of a Model X navigating to the Tesla facility and parking. Clearly, history shows they were miles away from delivering on their claim.
After considering this, I thought there was a clear legal claim that I had. The basis of the claim was Consumer Rights Act 2015 (“CRA”), section 11(1), which states:
Every contract to supply goods by description is to be treated as including a term that the goods will match the description.
The Tesla website during 2019 described the goods as follows:
Coming later this year:
Recognise and respond to traffic lights and stop signs.
Automatic driving on city streets.
Because I ordered my car from Tesla directly, e.g. their website, any description they used then formed part of the contract - this was the basis of my claim.
The timeline of my interaction with Tesla/the court was as follows. I have attached some of the documents to this post, but redacted my address/car reg/VIN. (I have left in the claim number and my claim - I don't feel the need to redact those.)
2023-02-21: I sent the "Letter Before Action" which set out the legal basis for my claim before starting court action
2023-03-07: Tesla replied, essentially denying my claim
2023-03-07: I issued court proceedings via the Money Claim Online website, a cost of £455
2023-04-05: Telsa filed their defence which admitted the very thing I was claiming on!
2023-06-07: The court proposed to allocate this to the Small Claims track
2023-06-09: I filed the allocation questionnaire and requested the claim was heard at my local court
2023-08-08: The proceedings were transferred to my local court
2023-10-10: The court set directions (e.g. when witness statements should be exchanged)
2023-10-12: The court set a hearing date of 17th Nov
2023-10-16: Tesla sent a settlement offer... this then led to some to and fro which I'll set out in more detail below
2023-10-27: I signed a revised settlement offer (Tesla had already signed it)
2023-11-02: Two payments received in my bank account; £5,800.00 and £2,215.22
It seems to me like Telsa's desire to settle was triggered by the court hearing date being set. Their initial settlement offer had three things I didn't like in it:
1) They only offered £5800 - but if I was successful in court I would get 8% interest on this amount from 1st Jan 2020 to the judgement, as well as court fees.
2) There was a "non-advice" clause, that I wouldn't help anyone with a similar claim to mine.
3) There was a confidentiality clause, that I wouldn't be able to discuss with anyone about the settlement.
I happened to be on my emails when Tesla's first offer came in, so I replied within two minutes with a rather cheeky email:
Dear [Tesla representative's name redacted],
Thanks for the offer, but I am not going to accept it.
Yours sincerely,
---
Anyway, after the tone had been appropriately set...! I decided to deal with the financial aspect, so I wrote back to Tesla to tell them that I thought I'd be successful in my court claim and essentially they'd have to pay the full value of the claim.
They then responded on 17th Oct with a new settlement agreement at the higher financial value I required, but £285.75 short. (They had the full amount of the claim that I issued, but my claim also had interest accruing at £1.27 per day.) I then came back to them in two emails to make a few changes:
- Add the £285.75 to the settlement amount
- Tidy up the legal language
- Remove the "non-advice" clause
- Remove the confidentiality clause
They came back to me saying they accepted most of the amendments but wouldn't remove the non-advice and confidentiality clauses.
Quite simply, I wasn't going to sign anything that put me in handcuffs and restrained what I could do. I would prefer to go to court and lose. I saw these two positions as impossible to meet in the middle - e.g. Tesla had said they're not removing the non-advice and confidentiality clauses, but I said it was a requirement for the settlement for them to do so. I didn't respond to their latest settlement offer and then on 24th Oct I had a follow up email saying they hadn't heard back from their 20th Oct email. (The 20th Oct one had the full financial value I was after, but kept the non-advice and confidentiality clauses. I replied saying:
Hi [Tesla representative's name redacted],
Sorry for the delay, it's half term and I'm away with my family.
I think we are too far apart; although we're there financially, I require the two "gagging" paragraphs from your proposed settlement letter to be removed but you will not remove them. I cannot see how we can reconcile these two positions.
I'll forward you the witness statement etc. in accordance with the court directions.
Best wishes,
---
This led to them removing the two clauses, and we then proceeded to sign the settlement, they asked for my bank details and then made payment/removed FSD from my car.
By way of commentary, I think my claim was an absolute slam-dunk from a legal POV. Their defence had set out they intend to deliver city street driving in the future; therefore they hadn't delivered it by the end of 2019 which was what their website claimed they would do. The website was the description used to sell the car, and so the website formed part of the contract - very clear breach of contract.
From Telsa's POV, I am the worst type of litigator to take on. I am not a lawyer, but deal with them quite often in my day job so I know enough to put in a small claims action with confidence. The money wasn't important to me, I felt they'd conned me and I wanted them to do the right thing and put it right. Moreover, because the money wasn't important to me I was never going to sign up to a non-advice/confidentiality clause, I think it's important that my experience is out there for others to form their own views from.”
Link: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/my-experience-taking-tesla-to-court-about-fsd.315086/
Dec 10, 2023 8:47:16 PM
-
Carlos from Spain
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Spain. , Spain
- Posts: 21155, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
- Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS
Dec 12, 2023 9:58:16 PM
- CGX car nut
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: NWI , United States
- Posts: 5194, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 17, 2011
- Reply to: Enmanuel
Re: Tesla
More Cybertruck details. https://youtu.be/J5zDNaY1fvI?si=s9fjhBdLo_6pggAu Parts are innovative but it is not as groundbreaking as Munro acts.
Dec 13, 2023 1:52:18 AM
-
Whoopsy
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada
- Posts: 16151, Gallery
- Registered on: Sep 19, 2006
- Reply to: CGX car nut
Dec 13, 2023 2:36:07 AM
- CGX car nut
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: NWI , United States
- Posts: 5194, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 17, 2011
-
Reply to:
Whoopsy
Re: Tesla
Whoopsy:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C0r-1yTyqZK/?igshid=ZWQ3ODFjY2VlOQ==
Sharing FSD resources at the same time? To complete the product line, here’s something on the Cybertruck. https://www.motor1.com/news/700455/tesla-cybertruck-stuck-off-road-hauling-christmas-tree/
Dec 13, 2023 2:47:30 AM
- mcdelaug
- Expert
-
- Loc: Fort Worth, Texas , United States
- Posts: 1920, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 3, 2004
- Reply to: CGX car nut
Re: Tesla
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
