Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses? - Page2

Jul 21, 2005 4:17:41 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004

986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Hypothetically someone I know..hehe..took my 986S for a longer trip a week ago, and on the way back the car felt very slow above 240 km/h on the speedo.
I know it's not a 500 bhp F430 or something, but with an official v.max of 264 km/h the speedo should reach 280 km/h to be running 264 km/h IRL.

Is the car simply that slow up there, is it very affected by wind or could it be a lack of power?

And the answer "just get a 997s" really wont help me..er, my friend.. much

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Jul 21, 2005 5:11:43 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Clearly a Boxster is not quick enough for you. Just get a 997s.

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Jul 21, 2005 5:30:39 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
dreamcar said:
Clearly a Boxster is not quick enough for you. Just get a 997s.

Grrrrr...

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Jul 21, 2005 6:01:50 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Hypothetically someone I know..hehe..took my 986S for a longer trip a week ago, and on the way back the car felt very slow above 240 km/h on the speedo.
I know it's not a 500 bhp F430 or something, but with an official v.max of 264 km/h the speedo should reach 280 km/h to be running 264 km/h IRL.

Is the car simply that slow up there, is it very affected by wind or could it be a lack of power?

And the answer "just get a 997s" really wont help me..er, my friend.. much

I hate to tell you this, but the Boxsters are known to be slow after 200kph. They are that slow up there and this is why.

The gearing is exactly the same as the 996, but the 986S has less hp and torque. If the Boxster S had gear ratios optimized for it, the car would more quickly achieve its stated V max, but it doesnt. The V max Porsche gave for the 986S is for ideal conditions and a looooooong stretch of road.

It is the first Porsche model ever made that fails to easily reach its claimed top speed. Previous Porsche models
claimed very conservative V max's compared to actual use.

Porsche designed the 986 for the Snappy Boy dot com crowd of first time Porsche buyers.

The factory knew what it could get away with performance wise. They knew that a typical new Boxster buyer had very limited experience or desire to achieve the cars top speed. So Porsche didnt bother to go to the time and expense of different gear ratios. Relative to a Boxster S, even a 86 Carrera is a rocketship after 200kph.

The cure for the Boxster is to get different gearing, and
or more power.

Your first go fast option is to locate a low mileage 996 engine at a junk yard and use it to replace your current motor.

Your cheapest option is to replace your 6 speed gear box with the base 986 5spd gearbox. It is Passat sourced, has shorter gears and will reach a actual 264kph a lot quicker.

Sorry for the bad news.

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Jul 21, 2005 7:14:30 PM

Malmsteen: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 493, Gallery; Registered on: May 16, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

how abuot trade in for a 987S?

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Jul 21, 2005 7:15:14 PM

tso: Senior; Loc: Denmark , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 748, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

You can tell to your "friend" that I have a "friend" with the same feeling...

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Jul 21, 2005 7:50:55 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Malmsteen

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
Malmsteen said:
how abuot trade in for a 987S?

Is the 987 any different?

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Jul 21, 2005 7:54:55 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Hypothetically someone I know..hehe..took my 986S for a longer trip a week ago, and on the way back the car felt very slow above 240 km/h on the speedo.
I know it's not a 500 bhp F430 or something, but with an official v.max of 264 km/h the speedo should reach 280 km/h to be running 264 km/h IRL.

Is the car simply that slow up there, is it very affected by wind or could it be a lack of power?

And the answer "just get a 997s" really wont help me..er, my friend.. much

I hate to tell you this, but the Boxsters are known to be slow after 200kph. They are that slow up there and this is why.

The gearing is exactly the same as the 996, but the 986S has less hp and torque. If the Boxster S had gear ratios optimized for it, the car would more quickly achieve its stated V max, but it doesnt. The V max Porsche gave for the 986S is for ideal conditions and a looooooong stretch of road.

It is the first Porsche model ever made that fails to easily reach its claimed top speed. Previous Porsche models
claimed very conservative V max's compared to actual use.

Porsche designed the 986 for the Snappy Boy dot com crowd of first time Porsche buyers.

The factory knew what it could get away with performance wise. They knew that a typical new Boxster buyer had very limited experience or desire to achieve the cars top speed. So Porsche didnt bother to go to the time and expense of different gear ratios. Relative to a Boxster S, even a 86 Carrera is a rocketship after 200kph.

The cure for the Boxster is to get different gearing, and
or more power.

Your first go fast option is to locate a low mileage 996 engine at a junk yard and use it to replace your current motor.

Your cheapest option is to replace your 6 speed gear box with the base 986 5spd gearbox. It is Passat sourced, has shorter gears and will reach a actual 264kph a lot quicker.

Sorry for the bad news.

Jim, thanks for the input

Hmm, well. I guess that makes a lot of sense.
The car is by no means a rocket after 220 km/h...and like you say it doesnt fly either after 200 km/h altho it isn't exactly slow either.

I had a 5 gear Audi with a little extra under the hood, and that one basically slammed against the 250 km/h barrier, and then died because it ran out of gear...simply missed a 6th gear.
Very strange that the Boxster is specced like that.

What about the 987 or the Cayman? Same thing?
I'm not a 911 kinda guy, so that wont be an alternative for me.

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Jul 21, 2005 7:56:49 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Anyone here who knows the gear ratios for the 986 S?
I mean the top speed at any given gear, particularly 5th and 6th

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Jul 21, 2005 8:04:32 PM

Eurospeed: Junior; Loc: New York; Posts: 101, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Mine felt rather quick to 150mph...

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Jul 21, 2005 9:03:46 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Anyone here who knows the gear ratios for the 986 S?
I mean the top speed at any given gear, particularly 5th and 6th

These are the ratios (need to know tire diameter to figure speeds in each gear):

Gear Type 6 Speed Manual
Final Drive 3.44:1
1st Gear Ratio 3.82:1
2nd Gear Ratio 2.20:1
3rd Gear Ratio 1.52:1
4th Gear Ratio 1.22:1
5th Gear Ratio 1.02:1
6th Gear Ratio 0.84:1

These are speeds in gear for the 987 and 987S - I thought the 986(S) is similar or identical, but if Jim is right that they share ratios with 996, then I think these are lower than 986.

Remember though that this chart stops at 7,000rpm and the redline is 7,200 rpm, so you have to add 3% for max speeds in gear:

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Jul 21, 2005 9:24:57 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Grant

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

I just did the math (assuming 25" tire diameter = 6.55ft circumference)and the 986S would go 186mph at redline in 6th (if drag did not prevent it). 5th gear would give 153mph. So, the 987 gearing is significantly lower. The 19" tires on the 987S may give back the gearing advantage though.

Looks like the 986S gearing is the same as the 996 and the 987S gearing is the same as the 997 (which was lowered to compensate for larger 19" tires too).

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Jul 21, 2005 9:54:38 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Grant, thanks a bunch!

Seems the 5th gear will take me much of the way to V-max.
I guess I will have to make a v.max attempt where I max it out in 5th gear instead of shifting to 6th too soon.
Maybe that will help. If the torque cant do tghe job at those revs maybe the added revs can help a bit.
No big problem since I rarely get to drive at those speeds, but it is annoying that it goes so slowly up there.

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Jul 21, 2005 10:07:10 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Yeah, staying in 5th (and all the others on the way to 5th)until redline will help alot!

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Jul 22, 2005 12:00:39 AM

W8MM: Rennteam Master; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 3997, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
Grant said:
Yeah, staying in 5th (and all the others on the way to 5th)until redline will help alot!

Yep, staying one gear lower than top gear helped a lot in my old Plymouth Horizon, too. I never knew how fast it went because I didn't know what "H" in "MPH" stood for on an 85 mph speedometer

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Jul 22, 2005 5:43:27 AM

Eurospeed: Junior; Loc: New York; Posts: 101, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
Yeah, staying in 5th (and all the others on the way to 5th)until redline will help alot!

Dr Phil, if you shift before 7000rpm, without a doubt it will be slower...thats for any speed or gear. How far did you let the rpms go in 4th and 5th gear? I dont agree with Jimflat6. While the Boxster S isn't the fastest, honestly I didnt feel like it wasn't choking for power. I accelerated to 150mph smoothly, then let off...

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Jul 22, 2005 5:45:27 AM

Eurospeed: Junior; Loc: New York; Posts: 101, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2004; Reply to: Eurospeed

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

was* choking

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Jul 22, 2005 6:57:41 AM

hodipo: Newbie; Loc: paris; Posts: 20, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 25, 2004; Reply to: Eurospeed

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

dr. phil ..

these discussion are held on a daily basis on german boxster boards. in fact i can tell from my own experience (986S) and from the one of other boxster S drivers that you should EASILY reach your top speed (well, easy is very relative in this sense .. just as you said, we are not driving a F430 or CGT ..) but anyhow it should be possible to reach the top speed after "some" straight line acceleration.

anyway, these discussions always come up again, because certain boxster drivers are complaining about the top speed. obviously porsche seems to have a slight "problem" here with the boxster. not all the models are as fast as they should be, especially in comparison to their "brother" models out there on the streets. the only advice which is given to them is to go to make a power test with their boxsti, so they will see black on white how much hp is realized from their babies. in addition - as u know better than me little technic looser i assume - especially top speed depends much on the set up you drive (wheels, etc.) but nevertheless .. you SHOULD REACH TOP SPEED as indicated (maybe faster in 5th gear, right, but you should reach it)

for comparison: drove the 987 standard some weeks ago. compared to my 986S the acceleration and most of all TOP SPEED was really bad IMHO. suspension, sound, gearbox and overall feeling were way better ..

greets
tom

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Jul 22, 2005 8:26:48 AM

993Targa: Rennteam Pro; Loc: ZH , Switzerland; Posts: 2522, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: hodipo

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

My Boxster S (2003) is fast till 240-245 after that it get's slow. I just change gears before the rev limiter.
285 or so on the speedometer is doable. Cold weather alos helps a bit

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Jul 22, 2005 8:48:38 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: 993Targa

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

What about fuel octane level? You're using the best fuel you have available I guess?

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Jul 22, 2005 9:57:02 AM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
wtsnet said:
What about fuel octane level? You're using the best fuel you have available I guess?

Yup, 98 octane super. No additives on my part, just the nregular pump soup.

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Jul 22, 2005 10:12:39 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Perhaps you need to lose some weight, then.

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Jul 22, 2005 1:27:36 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

I also think it should do better with the soft top up (or better yet the hardtop, if you have one)...

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Jul 22, 2005 2:58:25 PM

993Targa: Rennteam Pro; Loc: ZH , Switzerland; Posts: 2522, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

driving open above 200 kmh is not that much fun anyway if you are 1.93m

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Jul 22, 2005 4:47:53 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: 993Targa

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
Zürich said:
driving open above 200 kmh is not that much fun anyway if you are 1.93m

Might make you prematurely bald with the top down

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Jul 22, 2005 5:53:31 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
Grant said:
Might make you prematurely bald with the top down

The term is not 'bald'... it's 'aerodynamic'

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Jul 22, 2005 9:27:55 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
wtsnet said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Might make you prematurely bald with the top down

The term is not 'bald'... it's 'aerodynamic'

OK! Might make you prematurely and permanently aerodynamic.

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Jul 22, 2005 10:11:29 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Whoops. Just discovered I normally take the gears to about 6000 rpms.
Going to fuelcut makes quite a difference.
Now it (hypothetically) goes short of 200 km/h at the end of a regular freeway on-ramp and keeps pulling. The particular on-ramp was about 450 meters long.

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Jul 23, 2005 8:28:11 AM

Eurospeed: Junior; Loc: New York; Posts: 101, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
I also think it should do better with the soft top up (or better yet the hardtop, if you have one)...

My "S" feels much slower with the top down. Although I really enjoy the top down experience from time to time; I find myself driving with the top up more often than not( maybe its the horrible NY humidity

). This is why I can see myself in the Cayman S.

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Jul 23, 2005 9:52:56 AM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Eurospeed

Re: 986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

Quote:
Eurospeed said:

Quote:
I also think it should do better with the soft top up (or better yet the hardtop, if you have one)...

My "S" feels much slower with the top down. Although I really enjoy the top down experience from time to time; I find myself driving with the top up more often than not( maybe its the horrible NY humidity ). This is why I can see myself in the Cayman S.

I never drive with the rag down on the freeway. Too much noise, wind and discomfort. Above 130 km/h it's not a lot of fun anymore and going 100 km/h with the top down? Whoa, not me!

To solve your problem: Get both cars

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986 slow after 235 km/h = Lack of horses?

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