Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974 - Page2

Jun 24, 2005 11:28:12 AM

ash: Newbie; Loc: belfast; Posts: 30, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 7, 2005; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

Ok, a decision had been made. I need to fork out Pounds1k to have the car repaired. End of story. Where do i go from here. What shold i say to Porsche, should i pay it, collect the car. or leave it with them and stop any further payments of the car. Need your help out there guys.

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Jun 24, 2005 11:28:51 AM

jjr1: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 213, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2002; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

I would not give up without a fight. That is just unreal !

How can a clutch be dead within that distance unless you launch it from a standstill in 3rd gear or pull away in 5th from a standstill or habitually ride the clutch?

Seriously they can't honestly think that an owner could be such a crap driver that they could destroy a clutch that quickly unless it was defective in the first place?

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Jun 24, 2005 11:36:32 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: ash

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

I would get some legal advice, possibly from the AA or RAC. (Does the Porsche Assistance include legal advice?) And/or talk to one of the car magazines such as AutoExpress, or What Car?. They often take up issues with dealers on behalf of readers. I'm sure a Porsche problem would make a good story for them!

Incidentally, what was the diagnosed cause in the end?

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Jun 24, 2005 11:45:30 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

email: watchdog@autoexpress.co.uk

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Jun 24, 2005 11:53:22 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: ash

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

Quote:
ash said:
Need your help out there guys.

Don't roll over. You must not make it easier for your dealer to bully you than take the matter up themselves with Porsche. You are your dealer's customer and they should fight your corner for you. If necessary threaten them that you will get an independent engineer's opinion and sue them for the costs, which will be in addition to the cost of carrying out the repair and also the bad press if you go public.

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Jun 24, 2005 11:58:00 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

I wouldn't stop payments though. That would just cause grief with your finance company. But don't roll over just yet, unless you think it might really somehow have been your fault. You haven't abused the clutch have you?

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Jun 24, 2005 12:01:25 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

I agree with wtsnet. If you stop payments to your finance company you may end up on a credit black list and other grief. Your fight is with your dealer, not them. It certainly wouldn't harm advising your finance company of the problem, as presumably they paid the dealer and might even take the case up on your behalf. Might be worth checking your rights under the Credit Protection Act as I believe the finance company is jointly and severally liable for any problems with the goods you have financed through them. (At least in mainland UK)

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Jun 24, 2005 1:21:49 PM

ash: Newbie; Loc: belfast; Posts: 30, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 7, 2005; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

Getting in independant to look at the clutch is a very good idea. I did not abuse the clutch. Ok I wont stop payment but will speak to them also. I have also spoken to a motoring journo who is also looking into it.

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Jun 24, 2005 1:45:31 PM

ash: Newbie; Loc: belfast; Posts: 30, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 7, 2005; Reply to: ash

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

Spoke to a few independant. The know nothing about 997s!

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Jun 24, 2005 1:50:28 PM

jjr1: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 213, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2002; Reply to: ash

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

I agree with contacting the journalists. Autocar/Auto Express/Evo/What Car/Specialist Porsche Magazines.

Just generally make a song and dance and do not let them fix it till you have explored every avenue.

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Jun 24, 2005 2:56:49 PM

jfraser: Co-Pilot; Loc: LA; Posts: 267, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 1, 2005; Reply to: jjr1

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

Dreamcar,
You are absolutely right about the finance company....they are joint and severally liable....so make contact with them and start stirring it up.
Ash
When you say that you spoke to some independants.....do you mean garages or engineers.....I once sued for my money back on a POS Jaguar and employed a forensic engineer....Their report was absolutely devastating...got the money back. Do a search on the internet for one...I believe I found mine from the BBC watchdog site...

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Jun 24, 2005 3:10:16 PM

jfraser: Co-Pilot; Loc: LA; Posts: 267, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 1, 2005; Reply to: jfraser

Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

Okay Ash,
I did the search myself....Here's the link for the Institute of Automotive Engineer Assessors.....These guys are exactly what you need....At the very least you'll find out what happened to your clutch

http://guideto.iaea.org.uk/

Failure analysis is one of their specialities.....You've got to come out fighting on this...the UK/N Ireland has some excellant consumer protection laws.....Establish what caused the fault and exercise your rights!!!!

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Jun 24, 2005 4:35:59 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: ash

Consumer Credit Act 1974

Ash,

Your legal rights under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

"If you buy something which is not of satisfactory quality or not as described, or not fit for the purpose you bought it for then you can sue the seller for breach of contract".

I would suggest that this statement is more than appropriate in respect of a Pounds70,000 sports car that has a major component failure after only 1,300 miles. It could be argued that your car is not of "satisfactory quality" and that the dealer is in breach of contract. All the more reason to involve your finance company and it is important to keep them on your side by maintaining your payments!

You may well not want to get rid of your car, but it is another angle of attack to keep the pressure on your dealer to reach a satisfactory conclusion.

This is only my amateur opinion, I repair ships for a living I am not lawyer.

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Jun 24, 2005 5:53:40 PM

jjr1: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 213, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2002; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

Some fantastic replies there for you Ash from JFraser and dreamcar so don't lie down and take it. Show them you mean business !

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Jun 25, 2005 6:06:59 AM

JohnA: Co-Pilot; Loc: Durham, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 264, Gallery; Registered on: May 13, 2004; Reply to: jjr1

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

I am a lawyer, and I have some experience but I don't exactly specialise in this area, pay the money get the car back and drive it. Argue about it later, you are having ulcers and wasting time with your new car over Pounds1,000. Point out to them politely that you are unlikley to fork out another Pounds70,000 if they do not accept responsibility.
Pounds1,000 is just too little to waste your time on, even suing in the small claims court with no costs on either side you will have a day or two off work, you will need to pay for an expert (more than Pounds1,000 I suspect) and you cannot recover costs.
The Judge will be faced with a string of Porsche experts saying you must have driven like a maniac, and he will see you decided to spend enough money for a house on a car that does 186 mph when your absolute maximum is 70mph and accelerates like a ferret with its tail on fire, what do you think his decision will be?
We are all reliant on the dealers goodwill, he is reliant on our good will for repeat business, there is a small pool of people who can afford a car like yours, they cannot afford to have their reputation tarnished by dealing with you unfairly, you must somehow make them appreciate that.
Good Luck, but get the car back and drive it!
I know this view will be unpleasant and everyone who is a 997 owner is Type A, but a good life is the best revenge!

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Jun 25, 2005 6:34:09 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: JohnA

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

I disagree. There are several no-cost ways to try to resolve this dispute. Diving straight into "I'll see you in court, matey" mode isn't the only way. Diplomacy, perseverence, and public exposure often work wonders.

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Jun 25, 2005 7:38:13 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

If you are referring to my post, dear boy, I am not suggesting going straight to court. I merely suggest that reminding dealers with a couldn't care less attitude to their customers that those customers are aware of their rights and it is another tactic of putting pressure on to get the issue resolved hopefully without paying money either to lawyers or the garage. Generally only one party is guaranteed to win in court - the lawyers.

John A
There doesn't appear to be any goodwill from a dealer who has such a cavalier attitude to their customers. Some dealers couldn't care less about losing one "whingeing " customer. There is a queue outside their showroom door clamouring to write checks. This can be a disadvantage having a popular car, as I know to my cost with BMW.
My own OPC, Porsche Centre Bournemouth are first class, however. I believe they would have taken a very different attitude to this problem.

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Jun 25, 2005 8:38:43 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

I was responding to JohnA's post.

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Jun 25, 2005 8:40:57 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

Humble apologies - I will let you off then.

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Jun 25, 2005 8:43:18 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

You better had, or I'll see YOU in court.

What's the weather forcast for Yorkshire? Want to borrow my hard top?

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Jun 25, 2005 8:47:36 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

Looking good. Hopefully soft top sufficient, thanks. Cooler, fresher (thankfully) and sunny if the weather forecast is to be believed.

Storms yesterday were spectacular here, but I think they were more severe down by you? We will both get told off for going off topic if we are not careful!

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Jun 25, 2005 8:51:18 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

Erm... do you think your clutch will hold out for two weeks?

Sorry guys! I do tend to drift OT.

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Jun 25, 2005 9:09:28 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

Quote:
wtsnet said:
Erm... do you think your clutch will hold out for two weeks?

Hopefully - it isn't a 997

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Jun 25, 2005 11:05:56 AM

JohnA: Co-Pilot; Loc: Durham, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 264, Gallery; Registered on: May 13, 2004; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

wtsnet
Actually I don't think you do disagree with me, my point (obviously I did not make it clear) is that in common with you I would not go to court, partcularly for such a relatively small sum, I would seek to resolve the issue another way, and as I understand it is exactly your position!

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Jun 25, 2005 11:38:07 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: JohnA

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

JohnA, I do apologise. I thought you were suggesting that it'd be better to pay up and forget about the whole thing.

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Jun 25, 2005 3:13:39 PM

jfraser: Co-Pilot; Loc: LA; Posts: 267, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 1, 2005; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

JohnA,
I have too disagree with your suggested course of action of pay & then try and recover the money...Ash knows if he drives like a twit, I am making the assumption that he doesn't....On that basis there is something wrong with his car. I'd want to know what the problem is. Unfortunately his dealership seems more interested in defending the position of 'the clutch isn't covered by the warranty, so pay up!! rather than investigating the root cause of the failure.
There is absolutely no reason to assume that merely replacing the clutch is going to prevent this same problem occurring in another 1300 miles.

Ash has a number of dispute resolution options available to him. If he believes that the dealership is incorrect in the assessment of his vehicle, he can call Porsche and ask them to send a field services specialist to look at his car. He can also ask for the Porsche Area Manager to be present (having a PAM in attendance is a good idea because they have the authority to 'goodwill' the part). If he's still unhappy with their conclusions, then having an independant automotive assesor look at the vehicle seems like money well spent.

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Jun 25, 2005 10:09:29 PM

med: Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 394, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 4, 2004; Reply to: jfraser

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

Sorry to hear about your clutch problem and the appalling attitude of the dealer

I agree in part with JohnA, contacting magazines, carrying out investigations, suing..... all takes time, I personally would not be happy to leave my car for weeks with a dealership that I'm in dispute with. Pay the 1K , take your car home, collect the old clutch and then start your complaining campaign.
Good luck and please keep us posted

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Jun 27, 2005 7:44:53 AM

ash: Newbie; Loc: belfast; Posts: 30, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 7, 2005; Reply to: med

Re: Consumer Credit Act 1974

Hi Guys, picked car up on Friday, handed over 1k and took the clutch back with me. Spoke with an Autocar Journo, he is on the case! Thanks for all your help and support and I will keep you all posted with any updates! I am also seeking legal advice.

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Jun 27, 2005 7:50:40 AM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: ash

Wranglings

Good luck! Hope it all turns out OK. I think you're probably going about it the best way you can. I'd hate to leave my car with the dealer too. Keep us posted!

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Jul 22, 2005 9:21:28 AM

IL2880: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2005; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Wranglings

Ash - any news on how you got on with this?

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Re: 997s Clutch is Gone

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Consumer Credit Act 1974

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