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Board: Porsche - Cayman
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Re: It is funny how people...
Tour18......Good question, wondering that myself.
While not exactly "bad-mouthing" the Cayman I'm not about to spend $65K lightly and am looking at a bunch of alternatives. I think I had to be one of the first with a deposit down but haven't decided whether to go with it or not....it's about 50/50 now. I really wanted to love it.
The original idea of a Boxster based coupe was spot on, but now it has grown into the Cayman which doesn't seem to fit either the hardcore racer or the pure street driver. It tends to lean more towards the street driver, but with it's given price tag it has turned off a lot of Porsche enthusiasts who know exactly what it is.....a Boxster with a roof and a bit more power.......something that should have cost in the low 50's instead of the high 50's, but that's another topic.
I'm still anxiously awaiting more info and some road tests before making any decisions, but at this point I'm really starting to think about pulling back my deposit, waiting a while, seeing and driving it in person, and then making a decision. I *don't* think they will be flying off the lot given what the current interest looks like at a few dealers I keep in contact with. Only time will tell.
.....and to answer your question......yes, I'm a past and present Porsche owner of various models. I really love the brand, but man are they really trying to discourage me lately.....
While not exactly "bad-mouthing" the Cayman I'm not about to spend $65K lightly and am looking at a bunch of alternatives. I think I had to be one of the first with a deposit down but haven't decided whether to go with it or not....it's about 50/50 now. I really wanted to love it.
The original idea of a Boxster based coupe was spot on, but now it has grown into the Cayman which doesn't seem to fit either the hardcore racer or the pure street driver. It tends to lean more towards the street driver, but with it's given price tag it has turned off a lot of Porsche enthusiasts who know exactly what it is.....a Boxster with a roof and a bit more power.......something that should have cost in the low 50's instead of the high 50's, but that's another topic.
I'm still anxiously awaiting more info and some road tests before making any decisions, but at this point I'm really starting to think about pulling back my deposit, waiting a while, seeing and driving it in person, and then making a decision. I *don't* think they will be flying off the lot given what the current interest looks like at a few dealers I keep in contact with. Only time will tell.
.....and to answer your question......yes, I'm a past and present Porsche owner of various models. I really love the brand, but man are they really trying to discourage me lately.....
Re: It is funny how people...
There isn't much press about the Cayman outside the enthusiasts circle but I suspect interest will increase once the car is actually available. The car appeals to be as a fresh design. Calling it a Boxster Coupe is true but I see it as a new take on a very attractive design. After 4 years with a 2.5 Boxster I really didn't want a 996 (or a 997) because (no flames please) I am rather weary of the design. The Cayman/Boxster Coupe/987(120), a rose by any other name, strikes me as a modern incarnation of a 60s style GT which I find to my liking. The price? It's a Porsche, if you believe there is no substitute then there is no choice.
Re: It is funny how people...
I didn't choose my words very well. I didn't intend to offend anyone. It would simply be helpful to know whether judgements are based on left seat time or not. And who's paying for the thrashing...
My next Porsche is either a 997GT3 or 997TT. Jackie drove off in a blue RGT Monday afternoon. There were GT2s, CRTs, RTurbos; but that GT3 with the wing and all was killer...
When you guys are in Dallas, you need to come by RUF and see what's going on. There is still one X51 motor in the crate just waiting for a Boxster. I didn't drive the last conversion, but it sure was a sweet installation..
My next Porsche is either a 997GT3 or 997TT. Jackie drove off in a blue RGT Monday afternoon. There were GT2s, CRTs, RTurbos; but that GT3 with the wing and all was killer...
When you guys are in Dallas, you need to come by RUF and see what's going on. There is still one X51 motor in the crate just waiting for a Boxster. I didn't drive the last conversion, but it sure was a sweet installation..
Re: It is funny how people...
I think the price of the Cayman S is really going to seem outrageous when the 400hp M3 comes out. Porsche better bump hp/torque output significantly by then.
The M3 wont cost the 48K it costs now, but it will probably still cost less than a Cayman S with std equipment worth many thousands in Porsche options.
The M3 wont cost the 48K it costs now, but it will probably still cost less than a Cayman S with std equipment worth many thousands in Porsche options.
Re: It is funny how people...
Quote:
think the price of the Cayman S is really going to seem outrageous when the 400hp M3 comes out
Why? Because it will have more hp?
The car isn't even out yet, for pete's sake.. how do you all know it won't be an outstanding driver? After all, that's what you're lookin for in a porsche, not hp and low price due to lack of refinement.
Re: It is funny how people...
The same could be said of the current 280hp Boxster S (53,200) and the 330hp M3 convertible (55,800). The choice of a sports car is rarely based solely quantifiable elements, particularly since there is nothing "rational" about owning a sports/performance automobile. Emotionally the Cayman/Boxster does more for me than the M3. I made that choice in 99 ($60K 2.5 Boxster) and I'll likely make that choice again in 06. Rational? No.
Re: It is funny how people...
Quote:
brunner said:Quote:
think the price of the Cayman S is really going to seem outrageous when the 400hp M3 comes out
Why? Because it will have more hp?
The car isn't even out yet, for pete's sake.. how do you all know it won't be an outstanding driver? After all, that's what you're lookin for in a porsche, not hp and low price due to lack of refinement.
I never said I would buy one over a Cayman S. It will take a very skilled driver to get more performance out of a Cayman S than a new M3. The driving experience will probably (hopefully) be better in the Cayman S. That alone may sway me.
But Porsche doesn't sell cars to JUST sportscar pusrists. Most people, including many enthusiasts, will see an M3 with what will likely be an awesome engine, lots more equipment, decent back seats and great performance and will go for it instead... for less money.
The M3 will surely be heavier and have inferior brakes, and of course, lack the mid engine layout - all GREAT advantages, but 100hp makes up for a lot. And a BMW M3 is no Chevy.
My only point is that to the general public, a Cayman is no 911 and is not a roadster. It will be directly compared to an M3 and most people will not see the advantages we see in the Cayman as obvious. Porsche will have to do more if they want to sell this car in significant volumes.
Re: It is funny how people...
Quote:
DaveC said:
The same could be said of the current 280hp Boxster S (53,200) and the 330hp M3 convertible (55,800). The choice of a sports car is rarely based solely quantifiable elements, particularly since there is nothing "rational" about owning a sports/performance automobile. Emotionally the Cayman/Boxster does more for me than the M3. I made that choice in 99 ($60K 2.5 Boxster) and I'll likely make that choice again in 06. Rational? No.
See my above post. If anything I am biased in FAVOR of the Cayman S.
But a M3 Cabrio weighs in at a ridiculous 3800lbs. ANYONE can feel that difference. It also costs MORE than a Boxster S and it is SLOWER. HP difference is only 50, not 100. And they both have 6-cyl engines.
Strictly from a marketing point of view, there are MANY reasons to go for a Boxster S over an M3 cabrio. Regardless, the current M3 is not the issue. It is the next one. But agreed, this is speculation since it hasn't even been anounced and wont be out for a couple of years. Until then, the Cayman will do just fine, IMO.
Re: It is funny how people...
Quote:
mbr129 said:
I think the price of the Cayman S is really going to seem outrageous when the 400hp M3 comes out. Porsche better bump hp/torque output significantly by then.
The M3 wont cost the 48K it costs now, but it will probably still cost less than a Cayman S with std equipment worth many thousands in Porsche options.
The E90 M3 will most likely be an awesome car, but it is also rumored to be slightly larger and heavier than the outgoing E46. Most say performance will be enhanced over the E46, but maybe not as much as people think. The present E46 M3 is a pretty good wash with the new Boxster S in terms of performance. The M3 may be slightly faster, but the Boxster handles a bit better.
The Cayman S with a bit more HP and Torque should at least be a match for the present M3.....maybe even a little better, but I agree Porsche really needs to keep an eye on BMW and even Audi in a few areas. Both the new M3 and RS4 with over 400HP will be nice packages for below Cayman prices.
That's pretty much my biggest beef with the Cayman.....if Porsche was going to go upmarket with it in terms of price and performance over the Boxster, they should have put the base 325HP 911 engine in it......that would have at least made it a top performer from the get go, and would have probably kept it there for a couple of years. I see it quickly getting overshadowed by a bunch of entries in the coming years......but then again it seems that way for just about everything nowadays.
Re: It is funny how people...
Quote:
Zürich said:Quote:
brunner said:Quote:
think the price of the Cayman S is really going to seem outrageous when the 400hp M3 comes out
What if you compare the (new) M3 to the 997? Same story!
You are kidding yourself if you think that wont go through some poeple's minds. The 997 already seems overpriced versus Porsche's own Cayman S.
Re: It is funny how people...
Quote:
mbr129 said:Quote:
Zürich said:Quote:
brunner said:Quote:
think the price of the Cayman S is really going to seem outrageous when the 400hp M3 comes out
What if you compare the (new) M3 to the 997? Same story!
You are kidding yourself if you think that wont go through some poeple's minds. The 997 already seems overpriced versus Porsche's own Cayman S.
Agree. Boxster is a big bargain compared to the 997, the Cayman still is (a bargain). At some point the image of the 911 will fade like this..
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