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    29-apr-2003 10.04.45

    zzbobaA
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    Enzo Vs McLaren F1 - acceleration test

    autocar magazine did a comparison - check this link for the performance figures:

    http://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/happenings/2003/april/enzo.asp

    29-apr-2003 10.17.31

    FutchM
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    In risposta a: zzbobaA

    Re: Enzo Vs McLaren F1 - acceleration test

    I don't understand why Ferrari doesn't let a very respectable mag (like Autocar or AMS, it doesn't have to be all the mags!) have an Enzo for a day and do a proper test drive?
    I know the 399 owners don't really care, but we do!!!
    This was no real test, it was Benuzzi behind the wheel!
    It was even worse with the F50! No test at all!!!
    The Enzo is a great car, it's not big deal if the MCLF1 is quicker, it just is!
    That car set the benchmark 10 years ago, sort of, this is how quick a car can be. End of story.
    But the Enzo is different, it's more track minded, better brakes, great transmission. It's not only about the numbers Ferrari!
    Fanch.

    29-apr-2003 13.48.29

    FutchM
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    Re: Enzo Vs McLaren F1 - acceleration test

    There's an article in this month's CAR mag about Jay Kay's Enzo.
    Looks gorgeous in black!!! Has presence!
    Does anyone know if Ferrari's gonna race the F2003 this week end in Spain?
    Also, I'll be at the Monaco GP, if any Rennteamer's gonna be there, it could be a nice occasion to meet up
    Fanch.

    29-apr-2003 19.49.29

    Ron (Houston)M
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    In risposta a: FutchM

    F2003 this weekend

    Can't wait. They did announce that they'll debut F2003 at Sapin this weekend

    30-apr-2003 8.31.32

    zzbobaA
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    In risposta a: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: F2003 this weekend

    i'm quite excited about the debut of the "red shark" as well... although i still miss the classic qualifying rules -- the fight for pole is not, what it used to be.

    ron, how's F1 doing in the states? media attention improving?

    30-apr-2003 9.06.40

    FutchM
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    In risposta a: zzbobaA

    Re: F2003 this weekend

    Me too, this should be exciting.
    I really have great respect for the Schumi Bros after what happened to them last sunday. Impressive!
    I agree with ZZ about the qualifying but I think it is the price to pay to have a more exciting race.
    Don't you think the races are more exciting now?
    I think they are but unfortunately, it's all down to strategy mostly.
    I would still like to see more overtaking
    Fanch.

    30-apr-2003 9.35.06

    zzbobaA
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    well the last races have been more exciting than most of the races last season, no doubt. but i'm not so sure if the reason behind this is mosley's new rulebook -- there have been some extraordinary weather conditions and IMO mclaren and BMW were just too slow last season. at least mclaren is doing a better job this year, michelin as well. i would appreciate it if they would ban most electronics like launch and traction control (which they might next year), but the classic fight for pole is the ultimate battle of the fastest. remember some years ago when schumacher crossed the start/finish line only some seconds before the qualifying session's end and (sometimes) undercut hakkinen's time. BRILLANT! and the pole statistics (65 for senna) was IMO one of the only important statistics -- it really showed which driver had guts and is really fast. this statistic is now of no worth any more. even a sauber or a jordan could get pole with nearly no fuel aboard.

    lack of overtaking is really bad -- i agree. why don't they go back to slicks? the actual cars are way too depending on aerodynamics -- with slicks they would get more grip and overtaking would be possible.

    cheers
    zz

    30-apr-2003 9.42.44

    FutchM
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    Yeah that's true, slick would be good.
    Also, why do F1 cars have such small rims???
    They look like 14 or 15in!!!
    I thougt that in sports cars, the bigger the rims, the sportiest.
    Fanch.

    30-apr-2003 11.16.31

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    Improving a little bit but it'll never become like Europe adn European fans that are so much into F1 racing.

    11-giu-2003 4.38.17

    Yargk
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    In risposta a: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: F2003 this weekend

    Car and Driver had a test. The quarter mile came up in 11.1

    I think that the F1 did it in 11.6

    11-giu-2003 11.15.44

    rijk365gtb4
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    Fanch.

    The suspension is incredibly stiff, so the sidewall is used for deformation to get the maximum rubber on the ground. The same as with Hot Rods. They have extreme high sidewalls and very low pressure.

    Rijk

    11-giu-2003 11.34.32

    FutchM
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    In risposta a: rijk365gtb4

    Re: F2003 this weekend

    Thanks Rijk,
    But what is a sidewall?
    I still don't understand why the alloys are so small!
    I know the setup on those machine is extremely stiff but so what? These guys are pros, they should deal with it! I don't know have a padded seat around the bum to absorb the shocks or something like that...
    Sounds more like a a comfort issue than a safety issue!
    Plus larger diameter rims would look so much better!
    Fanch.

    27-giu-2003 13.15.18

    Rob in Ottawa
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    The rims are 13 inches in diameter due to the rules. The latest issue of Road & Track has an article on F1 tyres.The Bridgestone engineer felt that 18 inch diameter wheels would be optimal.

    27-giu-2003 14.38.04

    FutchM
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    In risposta a: Rob in Ottawa

    Re: F2003 this weekend

    Ah, see?
    Thanks Rob,
    Strictly from a physics point of view, a car with bigger rims will always perform better anyway. (It's just logic, for the same angular velocity, a bigger diameter wheel will cover more distance then a smaller one)
    Now what I don't get is why the FIA says the rims have to be 13 inches diameter?
    Fanch.

    30-giu-2003 13.08.10

    Geoff H.
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    I believe the 13" rim rule is F1 is mainly to ensure that the brake rotors are kept small... and therefore braking distances don't shrink even more. This was the best/easiest way for the FIA to regulate brakes. The rule dates back many, many years to the time when brakes were steel -- and of course today they are carbon.

    Even with the very small diameter, the carbon brakes can provide ridiculously short braking zone distances. In the recent Montoya/Gordon "Trading Paint" PR event at Indy (on Speed TV) they talked about Montoya's car braking at only 50m at the end of the long straight... and Gordon's NASCAR road car needing 250-300m.

    2-lug-2003 7.19.50

    330
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    2-lug-2003 7.23.08

    330
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    2-lug-2003 12.16.03

    RCA
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    I don't know but the McLaren is still one of the cars which make me nervous and respectful.

    23-ago-2003 9.46.10

    Scuderia
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    Quote:
    Strictly from a physics point of view, a car with bigger rims will always perform better anyway. (It's just logic, for the same angular velocity, a bigger diameter wheel will cover more distance then a smaller one)
    Fanch.

    While it is true that more distance will be covered, it is not true that the performance increases. As you increase the diameter (and thus the circumfrence) of the tire, it takes more effort (horsepower) to turn the wheel. This Results in a higher top speed, but slower acceleration. In the world of Formula One, acceleration often matters more than absolute top speed. Furthermore, larger rims result in greater unsprung mass, making it more difficult for the pilots to turn the wheel durning high g turns.

    23-ago-2003 22.24.13

    Yargk
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    Quote:
    . (It's just logic, for the same angular velocity, a bigger diameter wheel will cover more distance then a smaller one)




    And then they invented... gears

    24-ago-2003 4.49.26

    Scuderia
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    With regard to gears and the battle between the mightty Mclaren F1 and the new Ferrari Enzo, I am very dissapointed in ferrari for not gearing the Enzo such that it could beat the Mclaren's absolute speed record. The Enzo weighs less and has more power. I would assume that the Mclaren and Enzo have comprable drag coeffcients, so why didnt Ferrari make the gearing for a higher top speed. I understand that with gearing set for a higher top speed, acceleration diminishes, and that adding another gear would be heavy, but for a car as fantastic as the Enzo, this one feature is keeping it from being the absolute champion.

    24-ago-2003 15.32.25

    ben, lj
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    "Enzo weighs less and has more power"

    ? I thought the McLaren was well under 3k lbs (more like 2500)?

    http://www.angelfire.com/biz5/extremesupercars/cars/mclaren/mclarenf1.html

    It's substantially lighter than the Enzo.

    24-ago-2003 15.38.32

    ben, lj
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    incidentally, while the hp is less on the McLaren, it's torque (479 @ 4k) is about the same and comes to peak much earlier than the Enzo (486 @ 5500):

    http://members.fortunecity.com/carstats/mc%20laren%20f1%201997.htm

    25-ago-2003 3.19.27

    Scuderia
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    I appologize for my error, you are absolutely correct, the enzo weighs 2767 pounds.

    25-ago-2003 4.15.34

    ben, lj
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    Re: F2003 this weekend

    "the enzo weighs 2767 pounds."

    ?? that's unladen (empty). their website says "Kerb weight 3009 lbs" which is the weight porsche uses as well in their Enzo vs. CGT comparison in the "Product Information" book for the CGT. only porsche claims the 3009 is "DIN/empty" (ie: unladen) vs. curb.
     
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