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Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Amazingly when Ferrari had to retire Rubens from Bahrain,due to excessive tire wear, and Michael had two tire failures in the spanish race,Bridgestone had the balls to say it was all there fault.I didnt see Ferrari\Bridgestone refusing to race due to excessive tire wear or poor one lap performance.
If this is about safety,just two GP'S ago we had Kimi\Ron Dennis saying "We would do it again",with regards to continuing with an extremely damaged tire.So was it okay for Kimi to die than.I didnt see Michelin forcing Mclaren to pull Kimi out the race,in the name of safety.
Michelin deserves to bare the full brunt.This is a multi Billion $ sport.How can you not prepare a proper tire?
If the roles were reversed and Ferrari didnt race,would all the other teams pull out aswell? I think not!
If this is about safety,just two GP'S ago we had Kimi\Ron Dennis saying "We would do it again",with regards to continuing with an extremely damaged tire.So was it okay for Kimi to die than.I didnt see Michelin forcing Mclaren to pull Kimi out the race,in the name of safety.
Michelin deserves to bare the full brunt.This is a multi Billion $ sport.How can you not prepare a proper tire?
If the roles were reversed and Ferrari didnt race,would all the other teams pull out aswell? I think not!
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Ferraris homepage.
"An indesputable win"???????????????????????
How low can you go???
Check out this self-righteous and sad-a55 excuse for the "win".
Man, if I ever had any aspirations to ever own a Ferrari, they are all gone. Trust me. You wouldn't cash me dead in a car from a company with this sucky moral.
Yuck!!!
"An indesputable win"???????????????????????
How low can you go???
Check out this self-righteous and sad-a55 excuse for the "win".
Man, if I ever had any aspirations to ever own a Ferrari, they are all gone. Trust me. You wouldn't cash me dead in a car from a company with this sucky moral.
Yuck!!!
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
I'm glad it happened, the rules for F1 are totally ridiculous! Grooved tires that can't even be used for rain?! Hilarious. You F1 guys wonder why the US doesn't care about F1? Cause its a stupid shell of its former self. And this is probably the nail in the coffin. Bernie is an egomaniac with no checks or balances and he's running F1 into the ground as he gets richer and richer!
CART and IRL did the same stupid things and they are both laughing stocks of US racing!
CART and IRL did the same stupid things and they are both laughing stocks of US racing!
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Why dont the teams pull out of Formula One and create their own "Formula Zero" or something of that nature?
Same setup, different name, and the vampiric Ecclestone will have to find something else to suck money out of.
It is indeed sad, that F1 has become so money-driven that people in the US has grown tired of the circus already.
IMO it would have been a great alternative to the pretty lame round-and-round-in-an-oval-we-go racing they already have way too much of.
But I must admit - while being technically superior to all other racing, F1 is inferior when it comes to sheer entertainment value and moral.
Sad - but true.
Same setup, different name, and the vampiric Ecclestone will have to find something else to suck money out of.
It is indeed sad, that F1 has become so money-driven that people in the US has grown tired of the circus already.
IMO it would have been a great alternative to the pretty lame round-and-round-in-an-oval-we-go racing they already have way too much of.
But I must admit - while being technically superior to all other racing, F1 is inferior when it comes to sheer entertainment value and moral.
Sad - but true.
Jun 19, 2005 10:08:59 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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- Loc: Spain. , Spain
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- Reply to: Marco 430
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Quote:
Marco 430 said:
Amazingly when Ferrari had to retire Rubens from Bahrain,due to excessive tire wear, and Michael had two tire failures in the spanish race,Bridgestone had the balls to say it was all there fault.I didnt see Ferrari\Bridgestone refusing to race due to excessive tire wear or poor one lap performance.
If this is about safety,just two GP'S ago we had Kimi\Ron Dennis saying "We would do it again",with regards to continuing with an extremely damaged tire.So was it okay for Kimi to die than.I didnt see Michelin forcing Mclaren to pull Kimi out the race,in the name of safety.
Michelin deserves to bare the full brunt.This is a multi Billion $ sport.How can you not prepare a proper tire?
If the roles were reversed and Ferrari didnt race,would all the other teams pull out aswell? I think not!
Alonso had severly worn out tires in Monaco and didn't retire, and other Michelin drivers have had flats as well and they didn't refuse to race or complain about safety. The problem here is that coming out of that famous turn 13 at Indianapolis there is a nice wall waiting for you at >300km/h if your tire blows, we have seen what happened to Ralph Scumacher last year if that happens. If Michelin tells the drivers not to race with their tires because they have a fault and will blow risking their lives, what can they do? either elimiate turn 13 easily with a mobile chicane (even giving up the points, Michelin drivers wanted to race for no points) or not to race and not risk their lives. And Ferrari still didn't want to. The Michelin drivers simply had no choice, they did not allow the ANY (none, zero, nada) solution that would allow them to race safely, as simple as that.
As to Michelin not preparing, Indianapolis got a new asfalt this year, and they have very little practice time there, by the time they identified the fault in the tires on Friday, all they could do is fly a plane full of new tires to Indiananpolis but the drivers were not allowed to use them becuase Michelin also found them not safe either. Bridgestone deserves no special merit for making tires adapted to this situation since Firestone (a.k.a. Bridgestone) has plenty of experience and data from racing in CART and Indy there, thats why they had no problems and Michelin were caught by surprise.
BTW Dr.Phil, I see no mention in Ferrari's site to their performance in the Le Mans 24hrs race
the best classified Ferrari in the GT1 class finished behind several Porsches from the GT2 class 
guess they must of forgot to mention that work by the Manarello technitians 
Jun 19, 2005 10:22:22 PM
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Dr. Phil
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- Loc: Denmark , Denmark
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
BTW Dr.Phil, I see no mention in Ferrari's site to their performance in the Le Mans 24hrs race
Indeed! However, I'm not that focused on Ferrari's lack of performance on Le Mans, but more on my fellow countrymen doing so great!
Tom Kristensen number 1 overall in the Audi and Jan Magnussen number one in GT2 class in his Vette!
Truly a little big nation in autosports!...if I may say so myself
Jun 19, 2005 10:35:13 PM
- JimFlat6
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
So Carlos, Michelin HAD flown in new tires for Indy, but FIA wouldnt let them be used?? 
The track surface at Indy is not a issue at all, at least not to Bridgestone --- who apparently have enough margin in their tire designs to be used on a track with ONE curve that is not level.
A Chicane placed at last minute woulda meant No vaild Qualifying laps. At least Coulthard still wanted to race!
The others just ran like sheep.
What about the other 5 GP's at Indy and the "evil" turn 13???? Only Ralf had problems.
What the pizzer of the situation is is that the M tired
cars did their warm up lap, ran up the white flag
and quit. Thats a shizzzer way to treat 150,000 fans.
No problems with the tracksurface or turns in IRL,CART or CAN-AM racing so whats up with Michelin and F1??
Maybe why F1 races arent even considered for US tracks that have curves and angles galore. Contrary to the Dr Phil euro-misconception, we have lots of first class race tracks,like Laguna Seca,Road Atlanta and Infineon for example, where cars actually go up and down hill and thru curves and banked curves, left, right, downhill corkscrews etc...
Indy is fast but not that challenging. It should have been ez for Michelin to have tires good enough it.
The track surface at Indy is not a issue at all, at least not to Bridgestone --- who apparently have enough margin in their tire designs to be used on a track with ONE curve that is not level.
A Chicane placed at last minute woulda meant No vaild Qualifying laps. At least Coulthard still wanted to race!
The others just ran like sheep.
What about the other 5 GP's at Indy and the "evil" turn 13???? Only Ralf had problems.
What the pizzer of the situation is is that the M tired
cars did their warm up lap, ran up the white flag
and quit. Thats a shizzzer way to treat 150,000 fans.
No problems with the tracksurface or turns in IRL,CART or CAN-AM racing so whats up with Michelin and F1??
Maybe why F1 races arent even considered for US tracks that have curves and angles galore. Contrary to the Dr Phil euro-misconception, we have lots of first class race tracks,like Laguna Seca,Road Atlanta and Infineon for example, where cars actually go up and down hill and thru curves and banked curves, left, right, downhill corkscrews etc...
Indy is fast but not that challenging. It should have been ez for Michelin to have tires good enough it.
Jun 19, 2005 10:47:33 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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- Loc: Spain. , Spain
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- Reply to: JimFlat6
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
So Carlos, Michelin HAD flown in new tires for Indy, but FIA wouldnt let them be used??
No, Michelin didn't. They said the new tires were also dangerous still. Otherwise they would of just used those and forfit all points and still be able to race. The ONLY way for them to be able to race is to get rid of turn 13.
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:What about the other 5 GP's at Indy and the "evil" turn 13???? Only Ralf had problems.
They also had problems Jim. De La Rosa's for example could not do many laps due to a mechanical fault in his car and the tires were "disected" and showed the fault, had he not had to retire from practice due to the mechanicla falut, his tire would of blow at turn 13. As soon as the worries about the tires spread all teams started to desist running too many laps consecutively, thats why there were no more serious incidenst than Ralph's. The problem was runnig more than 6 laps in a row.
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:Nobody has any problems with the road surface or turns in IRL,CART or CAN-AM racing so whats up with Michelin and F1??
Like I said, Michelin had no previous experience and barely any time to practice unlike those others. They sent ONE batch of tires for all Michelin teams and thats it.
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
BTW Dr.Phil, I see no mention in Ferrari's site to their performance in the Le Mans 24hrs race
Indeed! However, I'm not that focused on Ferrari's lack of performance on Le Mans, but more on my fellow countrymen doing so great!
Tom Kristensen number 1 overall in the Audi and Jan Magnussen number one in GT2 class in his Vette!
Truly a little big nation in autosports!...if I may say so myself
Dude, if it wasnt for Chevrolet and Audi, Denmark would have NO flags flying at Le Mans except at the pastry counters.
Audi's and Corvette's margins of superior race car engineering is so high they can afford to actaully let a Dane drive a car and still win.
Jun 19, 2005 10:54:27 PM
- JimFlat6
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
As horrible as the spectacle (and the race) was today, I still think all the fault rests with Michelin - not Bernie and not the track. They should be able to make a tire that will work there and the teams that use them shouldn't be given any favors because they were supplied with faulty tires.
A mobile chicane would not be fair to the teams who prepared their tires and cars to work with the original track layout.
I hated the race, but I really fault Michelin here - they should be ashamed (as well as the American fans who threw debris on the track).
A mobile chicane would not be fair to the teams who prepared their tires and cars to work with the original track layout.
I hated the race, but I really fault Michelin here - they should be ashamed (as well as the American fans who threw debris on the track).
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Quote:
Grant said:
As horrible the spectacle (and the race) was today, I still think all the fault rests with Michelin - not Bernie and not the track. They should be able to make a tire that will work there and the teams that use them shouldn't be given any favors because they were supplied with faulty tires.
A mobile chicane would not be fair to the teams who prepared their tires and cars to work with the original track layout.
I hated the race, but I really fault Michelin here - they should be ashamed (as well as the American fans who through debris on the track).
I absolutely agree. Is it as if Michelin has never had their cars racing this track? They don't take diagnostics and schematics of the course to realize how the course should be handled by their tires? It is Michelin's responsibility as being the provider for these Formula 1 teams to provide a safe product, first and formost. The fact that their backup tire couldn't even muster should be indicative of their poor prepreation for this event.
Don't call me a Ferrari booster, because I'm not, but Bridgestone has been suffering all year due to their tire's not being able to qualify well (they don't get moving until they heat up 5 laps into) and all of a sudden a problem of larger implication hits Michelin and everyone lauds Ferarri as being a villain.
The FIA did absolutely the correct thing, its just a shame that this happened, and Michelin should get a large heft of blame. The Chicane compromise is completely unacceptable in terms of fairness to Bridgestone riders. There is a reciprocal nature to the situation, but its just such a shame that it turned out this way.
Re: Michelins Apology
Pathetic !
TYRE SUPPLIER ISSUES APOLOGY
Tyre supplier Michelin have apologised to Formula One fans for causing Sunday's 14-car pull-out from the United States Grand Prix at Indianapolis.
The French company were unable to explain a batch of tyre failures in practice and advised their teams not to race unless changes were made.
A plan to use a new batch of tyres, which is against Formula One rules, was thrown out for fear of punishment while attempts to introduce a chicane into the troublesome last corner were unsuccessful when Ferrari and world governing body the FIA refused to agree.
That led to 14 cars pulling into the pits to retire before the race had even started and Michelin apologised for the failure to provide a safe tyre.
In a press release optimistically boasting that "Michelin puts the accent on safety at the United States Grand Prix", the company accepted responsibility but bemoaned the failure to reach a compromise.
It read: "Michelin is very disappointed about the way the United States Grand Prix turned out at Indianapolis today, for the public, the drivers and the teams.
"Michelin is sorry that the tyres it ran in free practice and qualifying were not suitable for use in racing conditions this weekend but driver safety is always a priority.
"It is regrettable that our pre-race suggestions, agreed in conjunction with our partner teams, were not adopted. Had our ideas been followed, we could have guaranteed driver safety, the participation of our teams and added interest for the public.
"Michelin would like to thank its seven partner teams for their close collaboration, for having made propositions to the FIA and for having respected our advice on safety issues."
TYRE SUPPLIER ISSUES APOLOGY
Tyre supplier Michelin have apologised to Formula One fans for causing Sunday's 14-car pull-out from the United States Grand Prix at Indianapolis.
The French company were unable to explain a batch of tyre failures in practice and advised their teams not to race unless changes were made.
A plan to use a new batch of tyres, which is against Formula One rules, was thrown out for fear of punishment while attempts to introduce a chicane into the troublesome last corner were unsuccessful when Ferrari and world governing body the FIA refused to agree.
That led to 14 cars pulling into the pits to retire before the race had even started and Michelin apologised for the failure to provide a safe tyre.
In a press release optimistically boasting that "Michelin puts the accent on safety at the United States Grand Prix", the company accepted responsibility but bemoaned the failure to reach a compromise.
It read: "Michelin is very disappointed about the way the United States Grand Prix turned out at Indianapolis today, for the public, the drivers and the teams.
"Michelin is sorry that the tyres it ran in free practice and qualifying were not suitable for use in racing conditions this weekend but driver safety is always a priority.
"It is regrettable that our pre-race suggestions, agreed in conjunction with our partner teams, were not adopted. Had our ideas been followed, we could have guaranteed driver safety, the participation of our teams and added interest for the public.
"Michelin would like to thank its seven partner teams for their close collaboration, for having made propositions to the FIA and for having respected our advice on safety issues."
Re: Michelins Apology
well well well
The main problem is that all Michelin teams could have run the GP by changing their tyres and get a penalty but they prefered to put the FIA under pressure by proposing a track chicane...
Why would the FIA change the track for Michelin?
The FIA said that if they changed their tyres for safe ones they wouldn't be excluded, why didn't they change????
Charlie Whiting/FIA "As explained in our earlier letter, your teams have the choice of running more slowly in turn 12/13, running a tyre not used in qualifying (which would attract a penalty) or repeatedly changing a tyre (subject to valid safety reasons)"
Please don't put the fault on Ferrari that follows the (stupid, ok) rules and don't put the fault on the FIA who applies these rules(as a strong federation must do).
The fault is to Michelin and to all the teams who refused to run the GP under the F1 rules.
The main problem is that all Michelin teams could have run the GP by changing their tyres and get a penalty but they prefered to put the FIA under pressure by proposing a track chicane...
Why would the FIA change the track for Michelin?
The FIA said that if they changed their tyres for safe ones they wouldn't be excluded, why didn't they change????
Charlie Whiting/FIA "As explained in our earlier letter, your teams have the choice of running more slowly in turn 12/13, running a tyre not used in qualifying (which would attract a penalty) or repeatedly changing a tyre (subject to valid safety reasons)"
Please don't put the fault on Ferrari that follows the (stupid, ok) rules and don't put the fault on the FIA who applies these rules(as a strong federation must do).
The fault is to Michelin and to all the teams who refused to run the GP under the F1 rules.
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Audi's and Corvette's margins of superior race car engineering is so high they can afford to actaully let a Dane drive a car and still win.
I believe it's time for your annual reality check.
Your argument is as solid is:
"If it weren't for the asphalt, Michael Schumacher couldn't even drive his Ferrari."
Or how about:
"Brazil do not produce F1 cars, so Ayrton Senna really shouldnt be counted as a F1 driver at all...."
According to your theory, american drivers should dominate the motorsports scene as the US produce so many cars.
Unfortunately they dont have the ability to drive their own cars to victory in Le Mans.
Apparently the Danes do. 7 times straight.
Can you name any american driver who has won the Le Mans (or any other classic race) 7 times?
That's what I thought.
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
According to your theory, american drivers should dominate the motorsports scene as the US produce so many cars.
Unfortunately they dont have the ability to drive their own cars to victory in Le Mans.
Apparently the Danes do. 7 times straight.
Can you name any american driver who has won the Le Mans (or any other classic race) 7 times?
That's what I thought.
You over reacted. It was tongue in cheek, not danish hoof in mouth!
Now go find some Mario Andretti wine and get over it.
Unfortunately they dont have the ability to drive their own cars to victory in Le Mans.
Apparently the Danes do. 7 times straight.
Can you name any american driver who has won the Le Mans (or any other classic race) 7 times?
That's what I thought.
You over reacted. It was tongue in cheek, not danish hoof in mouth!
Now go find some Mario Andretti wine and get over it.
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
You over reacted. It was tongue in cheek, not danish hoof in mouth!
Now go find some Mario Andretti wine and get over it.
Isn't that funny! I was only kidding, too! Seems we were BOTH just kidding! Isn't that a coinsidence? Whoo-hoo-hoo.
Just kidding...I mean about being serious. Or was I being seriously kidding? Argh. Simply too hard to keep track of these things.
I'd better go check out the homepage about "fine american drivers of the century". Should take me about 30 seconds to finish.
JUST KIDDING!
Hey! This is neat! I can simply say ANYTHING, as long as I write
or "Just kidding".
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
You over reacted. It was tongue in cheek, not danish hoof in mouth!
Now go find some Mario Andretti wine and get over it.
Isn't that funny! I was only kidding, too! Seems we were BOTH just kidding! Isn't that a coinsidence? Whoo-hoo-hoo.
Just kidding...I mean about being serious. Or was I being seriously kidding? Argh. Simply too hard to keep track of these things.
I'd better go check out the homepage about "fine american drivers of the century". Should take me about 30 seconds to finish.
JUST KIDDING!
Hey! This is neat! I can simply say ANYTHING, as long as I write
Phil, I never made the remark u cite about number of cars made viz a viz dominance of the auto racing world.
I did say that Audi and Corvette are so advanced that they would even entrust Danes to race them, but that was hardly meant as a left handed comment on Danish race drivers, it was tongue in cheek, so obvious that everyone knows those two guys are very good.
If you long to engage in a pizzing match about what country makes the best cars, drivers yadda, yadda, surely u know by now that most F1 technology comes from England and that, Brazil, Argentina and surprise, even the US have drivers who have World Championships, so take your anti North and Anti South American and previous seemingly anti any Latin driver remarks and blow em up your myopic Nordic biased drain pipe.
Thats simple to understand, now isnt it!
Got it??
Re: SCHUMACHER WINS !
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
.... so take your anti North and Anti South American and previous seemingly anti any Latin driver remarks and blow em up your myopic Nordic biased drain pipe.
Thats simple to understand, now isnt it!
Got it??
Mymymy. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were getting our blood pressure up over the fact that the US just can't make it in the top of international racing...but I'm probably wrong.
Not to worry. At least you have Eminem!
Your remarks were subtle and classy as only Jim Sixpack can be
I was actually hoping you would quote some old Sly movie...and it seems you did! Hehe..
I think we have a new troll for the International Nick Team of Trolls.
By the way. I'm almost scared.
Especially that line about blowing things up my nordic drain pipe really got to me.
FYI here's a little heads up on Le Mans:
Last US win: 1996 Porsche WSC95, D.Jones, M.Reuter, A.Wurz
Last Danish win: Yesterday.
The past 15 years Danes have won 8 Le mans titles, Americans have won 3.
Formula 1: Last US driver: Eddie Cheever 1989 season.
Last Danish driver: Nicolas Kiesa, 2003 season.
Seems I win the peeing contest! Wheeeeee!
But of course I havent checked the US Oval Championships or Monster Truck drag racing results. I'm sure the Americans rule there.
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