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Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
The author of the article is probably just a jelous prick whos getting an M5 and he dosent want to accept the fact that the F-430 will kick its ass. Also, the test drivers sucked, 0-60 in 4.4 it should be somewhere n the high 3's. 0-100 in 9.4 it should be low 8's maybe high 7's. I also have my doubts about the handeling issue.
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Quote:
MG said:
The author of the article is probably just a jelous prick whos getting an M5 and he dosent want to accept the fact that the F-430 will kick its ass. Also, the test drivers sucked, 0-60 in 4.4 it should be somewhere n the high 3's. 0-100 in 9.4 it should be low 8's maybe high 7's. I also have my doubts about the handeling issue.
Don't put your head in the sand, face the facts "we" are getting blown away in our "sports cars" by family packed sedans. Only on the circuit or a mountain road we might have an edge
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
There will always be more powerful, uglier cars! I saw my first M5 today outside a Beemer garage and wasn't really impressed, it looks bland and square - even the interior (front) looks significantly less spacious than an F430!
Congratulations to BMW for pushing such technology, though I'd have a 430 over an M5 anyday!!
Congratulations to BMW for pushing such technology, though I'd have a 430 over an M5 anyday!!
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
i don't get the point of this article. it isn't saying much really.
btw... i remember that Peter "Robbo" Robinson from AUTOCAR stated that the F430 is "the best car i've ever driven". and his colleague Chris Harris was similar enthusiastic.
PS thanks for posting the links!
btw... i remember that Peter "Robbo" Robinson from AUTOCAR stated that the F430 is "the best car i've ever driven". and his colleague Chris Harris was similar enthusiastic.
PS thanks for posting the links!
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Thanks alot for the article.
The acceleration times for the F430 were slow,as MG has already stated above,in fact they were very slow and no doubt that seven speeder in the M5 helps it alot. As much as I love the M5 for what it is,its never going to magically hide 500 kg's in the twisties nor out accelerate the 430 to 150mph.According to Autocar,it will than out accelerate the Gallardo and the GT2.
I remember here in SA,they were advertising the old M5 as a supercar eater.I'm still waiting for one to blow by a 360 or a 911 turbo.
It's a good story,an extremely one sided one, thats going to fuel up all the irritating little magazine racers and BMW brigade.GREAT!!!!
The acceleration times for the F430 were slow,as MG has already stated above,in fact they were very slow and no doubt that seven speeder in the M5 helps it alot. As much as I love the M5 for what it is,its never going to magically hide 500 kg's in the twisties nor out accelerate the 430 to 150mph.According to Autocar,it will than out accelerate the Gallardo and the GT2.
I remember here in SA,they were advertising the old M5 as a supercar eater.I'm still waiting for one to blow by a 360 or a 911 turbo.
It's a good story,an extremely one sided one, thats going to fuel up all the irritating little magazine racers and BMW brigade.GREAT!!!!
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Quote:
Marco 430 said:
Thanks alot for the article.
The acceleration times for the F430 were slow,as MG has already stated above,in fact they were very slow and no doubt that seven speeder in the M5 helps it alot. As much as I love the M5 for what it is,its never going to magically hide 500 kg's in the twisties nor out accelerate the 430 to 150mph.According to Autocar,it will than out accelerate the Gallardo and the GT2.
I remember here in SA,they were advertising the old M5 as a supercar eater.I'm still waiting for one to blow by a 360 or a 911 turbo.
It's a good story,an extremely one sided one, thats going to fuel up all the irritating little magazine racers and BMW brigade.GREAT!!!!
That's right. Autocar stories are always good to read. But sometimes they seem to get something wrong with their acceleration times. M5 seems to be too quick whereas F430 seems to be too slow. I guess they just do it because of the story.
It has also been the opposite before. Remember the first autocar test of the F360? Car was ridiciously quick, with 0-100 mph in 8.something seconds (I guess it was 8.9). No other 360 ever achieved such a quick time again...
Jun 8, 2005 5:18:07 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
There is a thread on the Sportscar Section about this, and like we mentioned there, an article saying "M5 beats F430" sells, "F430 beats M5" doesn't, as simple as that 
These comparisons are nonsense. No one buys a F430 for straight line acceleration, and anynoe who does not notice the difference in the "experience" of driving a F430 than a M5 has a severely impaired frontal lobe, at the end of the day the M5 still feels like a big sedan. Both are great cars but withing their own class.
Saurma will settle this article's the handling affirmations in the SportAuto Supertest when he tries the F430 at the ring and HH. The -20mm 997S with only 355HP already pulled 8 seconds on the 507HP M5, and the F430 doesn't even have that HP handicap.
These comparisons are nonsense. No one buys a F430 for straight line acceleration, and anynoe who does not notice the difference in the "experience" of driving a F430 than a M5 has a severely impaired frontal lobe, at the end of the day the M5 still feels like a big sedan. Both are great cars but withing their own class.
Saurma will settle this article's the handling affirmations in the SportAuto Supertest when he tries the F430 at the ring and HH. The -20mm 997S with only 355HP already pulled 8 seconds on the 507HP M5, and the F430 doesn't even have that HP handicap.
Jun 9, 2005 8:28:48 AM
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Carlos from Spain
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Someone help me out with this. If the Ferrari has 490hp and is 3200lbs and the BMW 500hp and over 4000lbs how is it according to this test the BMW walked away from the 430? 
Either the Ferrari was detuned or ailing or the BMW was juiced. You cannot overturn the law of physic's.
Either the Ferrari was detuned or ailing or the BMW was juiced. You cannot overturn the law of physic's.
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Quote:
Someone help me out with this. If the Ferrari has 490hp and is 3200lbs and the BMW 500hp and over 4000lbs how is it according to this test the BMW walked away from the 430?
Either the Ferrari was detuned or ailing or the BMW was juiced. You cannot overturn the law of physic's.
not to forget the (probably
) lower aerodynamic resistance of the F430!
in an ideal world magazines should collect their test cars from readers or from dealerships -- not from the factory's PR department.
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Quote:
Mike S said:
well, that kind of sums it up, autocar is A) talking serious BS or B) they have got weird test cars?
C) This statement says volumes about the author's driving skills: "No matter how hard I tried, how fast I drove it, I still couldn't drop the bloke in the BMW." Foolish indeed!
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Didn't you guys read the other article in Autocar about their portable Nitrous Injection kit? 
The two cars would be equally matched in a parking lot race, maybe for the first two meters.
Once the road opens up and the BMW starts banging against its speed limiter, where do you think the Ferrari will be?? To say nothing of the M's tire and brake killing weight that when pushed hard in the mountains
wil produce rubber and clutch smells that only your parts salesman will love.
BMW has a terrific M5 formula: Simple minded and easily
impressed journalists appealing to a Bimmer crowd that
easily forgets basic things like: balance,aerodynamics, chassis development,brakes, weight and the fact that no matter how you tart up a 5 series, its still basically a
5 series with a high center of gravity, two tons of weight
and a electrical system that is a nightmare.
Hidden under beautiful paint work, glossy brochures and not too bright journalists, German car companies and their cult of arrogant "experts" are really cranking out some big dollar rubbishmobiles these days.
The two cars would be equally matched in a parking lot race, maybe for the first two meters.
Once the road opens up and the BMW starts banging against its speed limiter, where do you think the Ferrari will be??
To say nothing of the M's tire and brake killing weight that when pushed hard in the mountains
wil produce rubber and clutch smells that only your parts salesman will love.
BMW has a terrific M5 formula: Simple minded and easily
impressed journalists appealing to a Bimmer crowd that
easily forgets basic things like: balance,aerodynamics, chassis development,brakes, weight and the fact that no matter how you tart up a 5 series, its still basically a
5 series with a high center of gravity, two tons of weight
and a electrical system that is a nightmare.
Hidden under beautiful paint work, glossy brochures and not too bright journalists, German car companies and their cult of arrogant "experts" are really cranking out some big dollar rubbishmobiles these days.
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
The M5 a "rubbishmobile"s ??
I don't know about that.
I loved my 2002 M5... DRIVING it turned me into a believer and this most current M5 is loads better.
If I was in the market and needed a 4 door the M5 would be at the top of my list.
Where else can you get that type of performance combined with comfort and room ?
The E55/CLS55 maybe ? I'd take the M5 over the E55 anyday. I can't think of a 4 door car in that price range that I rather own than the M5.
I was reading an article on the M6 last night. 200lbs less than the M5 with shorter wheelbase etc,etc,etc... For the $100k I much rather own a 997 but can't deny how nice of a GT that car will be.
I don't know about that.
I loved my 2002 M5... DRIVING it turned me into a believer and this most current M5 is loads better.
If I was in the market and needed a 4 door the M5 would be at the top of my list.
Where else can you get that type of performance combined with comfort and room ?
The E55/CLS55 maybe ? I'd take the M5 over the E55 anyday. I can't think of a 4 door car in that price range that I rather own than the M5.
I was reading an article on the M6 last night. 200lbs less than the M5 with shorter wheelbase etc,etc,etc... For the $100k I much rather own a 997 but can't deny how nice of a GT that car will be.
Jun 9, 2005 7:37:19 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Quote:
nberry said:
Someone help me out with this. If the Ferrari has 490hp and is 3200lbs and the BMW 500hp and over 4000lbs how is it according to this test the BMW walked away from the 430?
Either the Ferrari was detuned or ailing or the BMW was juiced. You cannot overturn the law of physic's.
The M5 didn't walk away from the F430, they were pretty much tied in the acceleration tests and I'm not too surprised. First the F430 has less weight but remember the M5 has the new SMG-III which is not only twice as fast in upshifting than the F1 of the F430 but also its a 7-speed gearbox, and if you add the greater low end grunt and pull of the M5 then its pretty much even.
If you look at the acceleration, the F430 is slightly fatster to 0-60 due to its lower mass and greater traction, but then the 7-speed closer ratios and grunt of the M5 brings it to a close tie in the end.
But straight-line numbers shows nothing, its just about HP, drop a big V8 on a mustank and you get the same results. But compare the braking efficiency and feel of the F430 to the M5's BMW brakes after a few hard corners, or the steering feedback and control, or the agility changing directions, or the feel of the car through the corners, or the noise, or how well each hold up after a track day, etc, etc.
Jun 9, 2005 8:33:58 PM
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nberry
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
nberry said:
Someone help me out with this. If the Ferrari has 490hp and is 3200lbs and the BMW 500hp and over 4000lbs how is it according to this test the BMW walked away from the 430?
Either the Ferrari was detuned or ailing or the BMW was juiced. You cannot overturn the law of physic's.
The M5 didn't walk away from the F430, they were pretty much tied in the acceleration tests and I'm not too surprised. First the F430 has less weight but remember the M5 has the new SMG-III which is not only twice as fast in upshifting than the F1 of the F430 but also its a 7-speed gearbox, and if you add the greater low end grunt and pull of the M5 then its pretty much even.
If you look at the acceleration, the F430 is slightly fatster to 0-60 due to its lower mass and greater traction, but then the 7-speed closer ratios and grunt of the M5 brings it to a close tie in the end.
But straight-line numbers shows nothing, its just about HP, drop a big V8 on a mustank and you get the same results. But compare the braking efficiency and feel of the F430 to the M5's BMW brakes after a few hard corners, or the steering feedback and control, or the agility changing directions, or the feel of the car through the corners, or the noise, or how well each hold up after a track day, etc, etc.
Carlos the way the article was written it would be fair to assume that had the two drivers not called it quits, the BMW would have been miles ahead of the 430.
This is the only magazine (I am going to check their initial review of the 430) that is now claiming that the 430 0-60 sppeed is 4.4sec. To my knowledge, every test prior to this one had the 430 in the 3.7-9 range. Hell, given these numbers, the 360 was faster with almost 100 hp less.
Something is wrong.
Jun 9, 2005 8:51:37 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Don't worry about it Nick, the article is biased from the very start, anyone with a funtioning frontal lobe can see its just written to draw attention and sell magazines. Wait for what Saurma has to say, and its HH and ring lap times
BTW, I believe I read somewere that the writer of the article onws or onwned a previous generation M5
BTW, I believe I read somewere that the writer of the article onws or onwned a previous generation M5
Jun 9, 2005 9:11:24 PM
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Carlos from Spain
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Here was the magazine's initial write-up of the F430:
http://www.autocarmagazine.com/FirstDrive_Summary.asp?RT=215087
http://www.autocarmagazine.com/FirstDrive_Summary.asp?RT=215087
Re: M5 "better than f430".... says Autocar=====
Quote:
Radar said:
Here was the magazine's initial write-up of the F430:
http://www.autocarmagazine.com/FirstDrive_Summary.asp?RT=215087
I believe this is their second review dealing with British roads. Their first was in Italy.
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