Crown

Carlos from Spain:

Keep living in a fantasy world if you like but it is what it is...

You are the one living in a fantasy world. Hamilton is a great driver, deal with it. You keep bashing him for some reason.

Everybody knows the car and team are very important this is a team sport after all. But certain drivers are more skillful than others.

Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton are one of the greatest drivers ever. You don't like it, too bad!

Leclerc, Max and Russell are showing some skill aswell but they still have alot to prove in the long run.

You are talking about other things. Once again it's simple, some are better drivers than others, the problem is that driver skill matters so little in comparison to the car's performance that what you see on the screen sitting on your couch does not reflect that difference at all, you would like to think that for entertainment purposes and some seem to choose to ignore it so they can worship x or z driver, but once again it is what it is, in Formula 1, it's overwhelmingly the car that decides the season for the driver's.

Does that mean you can't have a favorite/s driver/s you would like see win?  of course not, there are still other aspects to the driver's, the teams, etc and their interaction and what they do on the race makes it all fun to watch come Sunday, but don't live on a fantasy world with respect of what really decides the result at the end of the season, and the top 10 drivers are a LOT closer in talent and speed than what those results seem to show, that is the bottom line...  tI never understood this blind following and fanatism of sports or TV personalities 

Whoopsy:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/christian-horner-fia-porpoising-intervention/

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-shocked-fia-flexi-floor-hint/

Could it be that Horner again is using some bendy parts on the car, like last year's bendy wing?

 

And here it is.

In a nut shell, most were looking at the wrong part of the floor. Red Bull and Ferrari designed a bendy central section of the floor, where it is unseen.

These 2 teams love to think of ways to cheat the regulations, not really surprised. Very unlike the DAS system Mercedes employed before, where they worked WITH the FIA to make it legal every step of the way. Pretty sure Red Bull and Ferrari never consulted with the FIA on their bendy floor, same with Red Bull's bendy wing. 

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Carlos from Spain:

As many already realize, the driver's championship in F1 is just an illusion for entertainment purposes... the driver's and constructor's championships are in reality both constructor's championships with different point allocation rules, the rest matters little at the end of the season.

https://thejudge13.com/2022/07/06/new-scientific-study-f1-car-overwhelmingly-superior-to-driver-ability/

That isn't wrong. We can do a count back and check.

2021, the season was only close because Hamilton out performed. The Red Bull was head and shoulder above the Mercedes. Max should have won it by a mile.

2020, Mercedes has no peers, easy win for Hamilton. his only competition was Bottas which was no competition. 

2019, Mercedes was strong. Red Bull doesn't quite have the car there yet for Verstappen, Ferrari got knocked down by Red Bull from 2nd best car. 

2017, 2018, Ferrari was a great match to the Mercedes with the rule change compared with previous year. At times the Ferraris are the fastest cars. It was bad luck, Vettel's unforced blunders and Hamilton's skills that won him the 2 titles, which could have easily gone to Vettel.

2016 was another Mercedes year. Rosberg lucked out to top Hamilton for the WDC when Hamilton's engine expired fro no reason while leading the Malaysian GP. Calling the Red Bull car best of the rest is more appropriate than calling them 2nd best car. 

2015 Mercedes stayed dominant when the hybrid era began. Ferrari sort of the best of the rest car. Hamilton out classed Rosberg for the title.

2014, the new hybrid era. Mercedes aced the regulations. They have zero peers. Rosberg is a great wingman for Hamilton. 

2013, last of the V8 years. The Red Bull simply out classed everyone. Vettel wins his 4th. 

2012, Red Bull still the benchmark. Ferrari sort of is a close 2nd fastest car. Vettel got his 3rd. 

2011, Red Bull simply walked over anyone. Vettel's 2nd.

2010, hmm. That's close one. 4 drivers from 3 teams could have won the WDC. But Red Bull was the car to beat. Ferrari and Mclaren are sort of tied as 2nd best cars. Vettel wins his 1st.

2009, the Brawn with the double diffuser. Enough said. Would Button win a championship in any other car? Questionable. 

2008, Ferrari has the best car, but Hamilton won the title, just piped Massa on the last race. 

2007. Another odd year. it's arguable who has the fastest car, Ferrari or McLaren. Regardless, close enough and the WDC came from one of them. Could have been the other 2 had the dominos fell differently. 

2006, even with mid season banning of the mass damper and thus neutering the superior Renault, Alonso built himself a big enough lead that he still wins his 2nd. 

2005. Renault, with it's mass dampers, is superior to anything else. Alonso win his 1st with the superior car. 

We can skip the 2000-2005. The Schumacher years. His Ferrari is simply no matched. 

So out of the last 21 years, only one WDC title isn't coming from the fastest car, 2008. Hamilton's first.

2017 and 2018  can be under considerations too, as the Ferrari was faster but not quite legal.

Same trend is going to hold true for 2022. Red Bull has the fastest car, and Verstappen is on his way to his 2nd. 

Please. If FIA decided to be lazy when typing up their regulations, it's their problem. They are essentially rewriting the rules mid-season to make whiney Toto happy.

Not sure how you can pin this one on Toto.

George Russell wears two hats, one as a Mercedes driver, the other is the president of the F1 driers association. He is the one that liaison with FIA on the drivers' behalf. 

He raised the issue about drivers' health with the porpoising, and FIA investigate. Not Mercedes' fault when a couple teams decided to design an illegal floor to provide driver comfort while not taking away from the performance. 

Mercedes was the one designing their car based solely on the rulebook, a legal one, but one that doesn't provide much driver comfort. 

Newey and the Ferrari people knew exactly what they were doing when they did what they did. They knew the rules weren't too clear and open to interpretation, so they tried their luck, banking on someone won't noticed and protest. Just like Red Bull's bendy wing from last year. They knew what the rules were and the spirit of the rule meant, yet they still chose to try their luck. DIdn't work last year and probably isn't gonna work this year either.

I stand to reason Mercedes have the most to lose with the new vertical G measurement limits as their car bounces the most, so they will have to raise their car to lower that and lose performance. Ferrari and Red Bull on the other hand might not be close to the limit, but they will definitely need to spend some of their capped budget on doing a legal floor. 

Interesting times. Maybe Alpine Ould be the one benefiting from the top 3 teams losing performance? Or Perhaps Mclaren?

Not illegal. There is room for interpretation of the rules, otherwise, they would all drive the same car. RB and to a lesser extent Ferrari, designed cars that didn’t beat up their drivers. Who is at fault here, really? FIA for their poorly articulated rules, Red Bull for designing a competitive car that fits within the letter of those rules, or the teams who couldn’t get there due to lack of creativity? 

We shall see about the legal/illegal bit. Same thing happened with Red Bull's bendy wing last year. it met the testing bit but violated the spirit of the rule, and they had to take it off. Same deal here.

Kudos to them for creatively interpreting the rules however even knowing how the spirit of the rule meant.. Like all racers, when something isn't specifically outlawed, it's legal, until such time the issue is revisited and then lay out in black and white. 

If Red Bull and Ferrari stood on firm grounds about the legality of their floors, they could have consulted with the FIA first before implementing it. Like how Mercedes did with their DAS and split turbos, leaving no ground for protest, even with their creative interpretation of the rules. Rules never said anything about a turbo has to be a one piece item, Mercedes saw that, asked the FIA can they do it and the answer was yes, so they did it. Same with the DAS, their initial versions were deemed illegal, until they modified it enough to satisfied FIA's scrutiny and deemed it legal according to the rule book. 

Same deal with Horner's famous words, any doesn't mean all. Rules say any lapped car, but the lapped cars behind Verstappen are still part of the any group. One reason why Masi isn't in charge anymore. In the spirit of the rule, and in application of the rule, any equals all. 

Carlos from Spain:

You are talking about other things. Once again it's simple, some are better drivers than others, the problem is that driver skill matters so little in comparison to the car's performance that what you see on the screen sitting on your couch does not reflect that difference at all, you would like to think that for entertainment purposes and some seem to choose to ignore it so they can worship x or z driver, but once again it is what it is, in Formula 1, it's overwhelmingly the car that decides the season for the driver's.

Does that mean you can't have a favorite/s driver/s you would like see win?  of course not, there are still other aspects to the driver's, the teams, etc and their interaction and what they do on the race makes it all fun to watch come Sunday, but don't live on a fantasy world with respect of what really decides the result at the end of the season, and the top 10 drivers are a LOT closer in talent and speed than what those results seem to show, that is the bottom line...  tI never understood this blind following and fanatism of sports or TV personalities 

Carlos from Spain:

I never understood this blind following and fanatism of sports or TV personalities 

You call it fanatism just because you strongly dislike that driver.

I don't give a damn about what he does outside the track, the way he dresses, his beliefs or his race/ethnicity. He is an excellent racing driver.

I just enjoy motorsports, unlike other people

Ferrari 1-2!!  Leave Binotto at home!!!!

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/confused-alonso-to-seek-clarity-over-f1s-racing-rules/10334299/

Someone should tell Alonso that had he be in a Red Bull or Ferrari, he will be immune to penalties.

Topspeed:

Carlos from Spain:

I never understood this blind following and fanatism of sports or TV personalities 

You call it fanatism just because you strongly dislike that driver.

I don't give a damn about what he does outside the track, the way he dresses, his beliefs or his race/ethnicity. He is an excellent racing driver.

I just enjoy motorsports, unlike other people

See, you just proved my point...when you see what anybody says as if you are not in favor of Hamilton in everything you are a hater then yes, that is fanatism 

Whoopsy:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/confused-alonso-to-seek-clarity-over-f1s-racing-rules/10334299/

 

Someone should tell Alonso that had he be in a Red Bull or Ferrari, he will be immune to penalties.

 

 well, they better clear up the rules on that meeting for Alonso or you know he will purposedly go out the next race and do those things just to expose the FIAs negligence in the matter like he did last season with the first corner move, Alonso doesn't give a s... anymore for repercussions, he is to old to care 

Thank you God, there's nothing more we can ask for except to do this at Austria.

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1543936412088553473?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1543936412088553473%7Ctwg...

You are talking about other things. Once again it's simple, some are better drivers than others, the problem is that driver skill matters so little in comparison to the car's performance that what you see on the screen sitting on your couch does not reflect that difference at all, you would like to think that for entertainment purposes and some seem to choose to ignore it so they can worship x or z driver, but once again it is what it is, in Formula 1, it's overwhelmingly the car that decides the season for the driver's.

Does that mean you can't have a favorite/s driver/s you would like see win?  of course not, there are still other aspects to the driver's, the teams, etc and their interaction and what they do on the race makes it all fun to watch come Sunday, but don't live on a fantasy world with respect of what really decides the result at the end of the season, and the top 10 drivers are a LOT closer in talent and speed than what those results seem to show, that is the bottom line...  tI never understood this blind following and fanatism of sports or TV personalities 

** 

Hi Carlos, this is such a great way to describe it. I wish I had your skills  

tso:

You are talking about other things. Once again it's simple, some are better drivers than others, the problem is that driver skill matters so little in comparison to the car's performance that what you see on the screen sitting on your couch does not reflect that difference at all, you would like to think that for entertainment purposes and some seem to choose to ignore it so they can worship x or z driver, but once again it is what it is, in Formula 1, it's overwhelmingly the car that decides the season for the driver's.

Does that mean you can't have a favorite/s driver/s you would like see win?  of course not, there are still other aspects to the driver's, the teams, etc and their interaction and what they do on the race makes it all fun to watch come Sunday, but don't live on a fantasy world with respect of what really decides the result at the end of the season, and the top 10 drivers are a LOT closer in talent and speed than what those results seem to show, that is the bottom line...  tI never understood this blind following and fanatism of sports or TV personalities 

** 

Hi Carlos, this is such a great way to describe it. I wish I had your skills  

 

I didn't prove your point. You are playing around with words in order to mask your hate towards Hamilton/Mercedes.

You can go back and read what I said. That article is written in a way that shows that the author clearly dislikes Mercedes.

The "80% car 20% driver is not news to anyone.

Leclerc, Max and Hamilton are faster than other drivers/teammates. Russell might be the 4th best driver.

There is reason why in every forum there are 2 or 3 HATE-threads dedicated to Hamilton. Envy of his/team success.

Russell has beaten Hamilton in what, all but 1 race this year now that he's in the same car? Let the excuses begin..

The disdain for Max is just as bad as the disdain for Hamilton, despite claims to the contrary. Why do you care so much about what other people think of him? That's Carlos' point. It's fanaticism. 

So the Mercedes is a diva this year. Both Hamilton and Russell lost the rear and crashed out, and they are at the top of the chart skill wise. 

In another news, Horner isn't happy only getting an extra 4.3mil to spend after the 3.1% increase. Which means he really spent A LOT OF MONEY EARLIER. he will have suffer the rest of the season. Oops. Time to stop upgrading the car.

In more news, he will get an extra month to fix his illegal floor. The TD is being pushed form the French GP to the Belgium GP. 

Guess that extra 4.3mil will be spent on new floor................

Your myopia caused you to miss this - the Mercedes floor flexes more than anyone else’s. 
 

Max questions Mercedes’ floor complaints: Theirs flexes the most

Michelle Foster

Max Verstappen is perplexed by Mercedes’ complaints about rivals exploiting the floor regulations as the W13’s floor “flexes the most”.

Following the Canadian Grand Prix weekend reports emerged claiming that the FIA had found teams were exploiting a grey area in the regulations, specifically relating to the plank and the skid block.

Updating a technical directive that was aimed at limiting porpoising, the FIA focused on plank wear and flexibility.

Ad

With a strict limit of 2mm of flexibility in the plank area, The Race reported that some teams are said to have found a grey area at the back of the plank where there is no measurement point.

With this in mind, they have been using the mounting of the plank and skid block to create added flexibility.

Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff said he was “surprised” and shocked”.

“Nobody had an idea until the FIA brought it up in the last Technical Advisory Committee,” said the Austrian, “which was to a great surprise of all the teams because what’s in the regulations, and what was the intent of the regulations, is pretty clear.

Ad

“There is no argument why that could deflect more than what’s in the regs. A bit of a surprise to say the least – more of a shocker.”

Verstappen is baffled by the team boss’ comments, after all Mercedes’ floor “still flexes the most”.

“I haven’t heard anything about it, but we’ll see,” Motorsport.com reports him as having told the Dutch media.

“I don’t really have an idea of what they want to do yet.

“What I don’t quite understand is that at Mercedes they complain about the flexible floors, while theirs still flexes the most.”

The new TD will come into force at the French Grand Prix with The Race naming Red Bull and Ferrari on the list of teams that will have to make changes.

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner is set to argue the new technical directive at the F1 Commission meeting on Friday.

“This is the problem, isn’t it? That regulations need to be black and white,” he said. “I think we end up with encyclopaedias that sometimes are way too complicated, and there’s no such thing as the intent of the regulations. It’s a binary thing.

“So, the F1 Commission meeting, there’s many things to discuss on the agenda, maybe two hours won’t quite be enough.”

"Shut up and drive!"......a motto that is missing today.

Topspeed:

I didn't prove your point. You are playing around with words in order to mask your hate towards Hamilton/Mercedes.

You did it again, now it seems I also HATE Mercedes too  if you don't think like I do then you must be a hater... 

Leclerc, Max and Hamilton are faster than other drivers/teammates. Russell might be the 4th best driver.

You can't have it both ways, if Hamilton is the best in the universe because of him winning with the Mercedes, now that Russell has clearly beaten Hamilton so far, then following your logic Russell is better than Hamilton. Either both are very similarly good along with half the grid and the car is what makes the difference or Russell is better than Hamilton.

Let me set the record straight just in case you didn't realize by now how I actually feel, I don't hate Hamilton, or I don't hate Max either, they are just not my favorite drivers, not because I think they are bad drivers but because I don't like how they behave on track, nor the image on and off track as role models, same with Vettel for example. If you look at Russell for example compared to Hamilton since we are comparing the two, it's night and day how they handle themselves, Russell is a role model, always well spoken, well mannered, not starving for attention, not getting into politics on the podium or being a hypocrite with their carbon footprint, not being a diva  etc. and on top of it and incredible talent that will be fun to see how it develops.

But I don't hate any of them, not even a little bit. I just don't idolize them and put them on a pedestal inflating their abilities with respect to other drivers just because they won championships driving the best car, just like I didn't think Vettel was far above the rest when he was looking it with Adrian Newey's Red Bull, same thing, regardless where I like the driver or not, I'm not blind to the fact of what really won those championships.

And certainly none of them are my heroes and models of success in life, nor do I care so much what other people think about them and call anyone who doesn't share my fanatism haters because of it...  my heroes don't drive F1 cars, kick a ball on a soccer field or sing/dance on TV... 

CGX car nut:

Your myopia caused you to miss this - the Mercedes floor flexes more than anyone else’s. 
 

Max questions Mercedes’ floor complaints: Theirs flexes the most

Michelle Foster

Max Verstappen is perplexed by Mercedes’ complaints about rivals exploiting the floor regulations as the W13’s floor “flexes the most”.

Following the Canadian Grand Prix weekend reports emerged claiming that the FIA had found teams were exploiting a grey area in the regulations, specifically relating to the plank and the skid block.

Updating a technical directive that was aimed at limiting porpoising, the FIA focused on plank wear and flexibility.

Ad

With a strict limit of 2mm of flexibility in the plank area, The Race reported that some teams are said to have found a grey area at the back of the plank where there is no measurement point.

With this in mind, they have been using the mounting of the plank and skid block to create added flexibility.

Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff said he was “surprised” and shocked”.

“Nobody had an idea until the FIA brought it up in the last Technical Advisory Committee,” said the Austrian, “which was to a great surprise of all the teams because what’s in the regulations, and what was the intent of the regulations, is pretty clear.

Ad

“There is no argument why that could deflect more than what’s in the regs. A bit of a surprise to say the least – more of a shocker.”

Verstappen is baffled by the team boss’ comments, after all Mercedes’ floor “still flexes the most”.

“I haven’t heard anything about it, but we’ll see,” Motorsport.com reports him as having told the Dutch media.

“I don’t really have an idea of what they want to do yet.

“What I don’t quite understand is that at Mercedes they complain about the flexible floors, while theirs still flexes the most.”

The new TD will come into force at the French Grand Prix with The Race naming Red Bull and Ferrari on the list of teams that will have to make changes.

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner is set to argue the new technical directive at the F1 Commission meeting on Friday.

“This is the problem, isn’t it? That regulations need to be black and white,” he said. “I think we end up with encyclopaedias that sometimes are way too complicated, and there’s no such thing as the intent of the regulations. It’s a binary thing.

“So, the F1 Commission meeting, there’s many things to discuss on the agenda, maybe two hours won’t quite be enough.”

Actually, it is you that suffer such thing. You aren't being objective enough to see, or even understand and comprehend the problem right now. You are comparing the wrong part of the floor. And in this instance, Max is trying to do some redirection. Exactly like last year when Red Bull was caught with an illegal bendy wing and he tried to point the finger at Mercedes' 'flexy' front wing, which the FIA deemed legal. 

Mercedes' floor flexing is a well known thing, hence why they tried to have a second stay. But their flexing is on the outer edges of the floor, not the area under investigation right now.

Red Bull and Ferrari however are exploiting the MIDDLE of the floor where the measurement points are, not the edges. Aka the plank area. They are using the middle plank as a spring board to absorb some of the vibrations. They see a grey area in the rule book and think they can get away with it. Well, the unintended consequence of investigating excessive porpoising revealed such a trick with the Red Bull car and Ferrari car. The middle part of the Mercedes floor is rigid enough to be legal under the rules, hence why their drivers are getting a punishment every time they get in the car. 

Might want to read up more on the technical stuff and learn more about it before commenting next time.

--

JoeRockhead:

Russell has beaten Hamilton in what, all but 1 race this year now that he's in the same car? Let the excuses begin..

That didn't age well. Hamilton was faster than Russell today until both crashed. Seems like Hamilton is no longer being the lab rat testing parts and setups. When both have the same setup he has been quicker than Russell. It's hard to swallow for haters...but well it's life.

Perez starting P13. He was obviously out of limits in Q2 but FIA has different rules when Red Bull is at fault. Took them a while to penalize the RB driver. That infraction was so clear live during Q2...

You have specific data to back up your claims? Post it so we can all see how correct you are once again. 

Topspeed:

 

That didn't age well. Hamilton was faster than Russell today until both crashed. Seems like Hamilton is no longer being the lab rat testing parts and setups. When both have the same setup he has been quicker than Russell. It's hard to swallow for haters...but well it's life.

Perez starting P13. He was obviously out of limits in Q2 but FIA has different rules when Red Bull is at fault. Took them a while to penalize the RB driver. That infraction was so clear live during Q2...

Hamilton was the best driver for basically 15 years. He was the target at the very top. But all drivers have an expiration date and his is coming up. He is closer to 40 than 30, he isn't a fearless and hungry 20 something anymore. There will be a time when he isn't the best, and that time is now. One reason Mercedes signed Russell in the first place. I would count Russell, Leclerc and Verstappen are better at this moment, Norris is also close. Heck the ageless Alonso isn't far behind, that willy old fox still have some tricks up his sleeve.

Some others will rank them differently, but still be the same top 5 and the top 5 are close enough that it's just a toss up for each weekend. 

Be glad that not one single team hogs the young guns. Each of them have the ability to win a WDC if their team can deliver a reliable fastest car. Right now that edge goes to Verstappen. Ferrari is close by and Mercedes is just nipping at their heels. And if after the summer break the illegal floor issue got sorted out, who knows, Mclaren could mount a proper challenge for 2023. 

CGX car nut:

You have specific data to back up your claims? Post it so we can all see how correct you are once again. 

Yo must be incredibly lazy, can't even take 5 seconds to do a search. Or you didn't want to know you were wrong.

Here is a quick one for you to get you started.

Another one

Ooooooo --- Lewee the Undriveable!  Nick, you may be right, that he's hit his expiration.