cannga:

^^^My humble opinions:

1. With the GT3 vs. Vette, the hole in your argument was the fact that the Corvette has overwhelming advantage in torque. Here, with equal drivers your Corvette is merely faster than a less powerful car.
With the Turbo S vs. Vette, now the hole is that the Turbo S is tuned for street driving. In this situation the Corvette is merely faster than a softly tuned car. The casual magazine readers (not you) are usually not aware that Porsche make cars tuned for different purposes. To judge a Turbo S by its track time *only* is simply wrong. I am sure as a veteran driver you're not going to fall into this trap.
As you've mentioned, track speed is about torque *and* suspension. If you want to judge Porsche engineering prowess at the track on a powerful car, look no further than the GT2. I don't think equal drivers you're going to pass a GT2, and if you do it only means that you're indeed the better driver. But really again, my argument is not about how fast the Corvette is, it is about the danger of using single numbers to judge the worth of a car, or anything for that matter, camera, stereo, beautiful fashion models -- except maybe the perfect 10, etc.

2. The mushiness and vagueness (you said it yourself) of the Vette extends beyond suspension, it is also in the steering, brake, and gear shift. The very article you are quoting numbers from mentioned the "non-cooperative" gear shift.

3. I did learn something about chassis engineering today (no sarcasm intended). How fair are you with your comments though; you're not being biased in that discussion, as you've been with the track times? Smiley Kidding.

 

 


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Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Custom Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


 

So let me get this strait.  When the Z06 beat the GT3 (even RS model) it was because of the torque and big HP of the vette, but the suspension and engineering are far superior on the 911, which should go unquestioned.  But when the higher HP 911 lost to the Z06, it is because the Z06 has better suspension and is track focused?  I seriously can not beleive you guys are putting this stuff in writing.  When will it finally come to and end?  The BS is slowing down my PC...

Also stated over and over, are that numbers are meaningless, yet as a Rennteam member since 2006, I can find hundreds of posts on various Porsche's by many of you where lap times, hp, braking, G's and many numbers are widely and PROUDLY used.  So let's end that point of discussion as well.

Also, I DO judge a Turbo S by it's track prowess.   For YEARS, the 911 Turbo was/is was know as the "bar" for track prowess and now all of a sudden because it gets beat by a Z06, that label is taken off??  The article clearly states the 911 TTS is a technical marval all around and has an amazing transmission with precise paddle shifters and increadible launch capabilities.  The article could not state how much cutting edge technology has been put into the best 911 TTS ever built. 

But yet it got beat by a car with signifcantly less technology, an antiquated manual transmission and no high end paddle shifters or electronic aids (like the ZR1 has).  Also, a single number yet does not define the performance between the 2 cars.  So to break up the numbers, the 911 TTS DECIMATES the Z06 in a strait line, but yet the Z06 pulls faster lap times??  The Z corners faster, and brakes harder and holds more G's.  To me that sounds like GM has really done their engineering homework, built an amazing car, that handles as well or better than it accelerates, and continues to refine over the years to match or beat it's competitors at a much lower price point (what a great thing that should be appreciated by all).

Also, the article cleary stated the brakes on the Z were so firm and touchy, that for street driving, it made modulation difficult.  A previous posted said the brakes were mushy.  This statement by  R&T clearly defies that the brakes are mush (again, someone uninformed). 

Now onto the GT2...bringing that car into a Z06 discussion clearly shows your desperation.  And from the looks of the numbers, you need to be desperate.  I can't recall a ZR1 vs a GT2 shoot out yet, but it would be REAL close.  If the GT2 beats the ZR1, it would not hurt my feeling the way that the Z06 has apparently disturbed many 911 fans.  The GT2 is the most expensive fastest current car in the Porsche line up to beat a car 1/2 it's price or 1/3rd its price is not such an amazing accomplishment.  You just can not compare a $250k car with a $75k car.  If you do, I give even more kudo's to GM and it increadible staff of world class engineers that apparently the corporation finally let loose.  I personally would gladly give up a little panel gap, to buy a car almost 2 seconds faster than a $150k+ limited GT3RS, which is the "bar" for naturally aspired streetable sports cars with track prowess.

Guys...listen am I biased?? yeah I guess.  I am Corvette racer, but  hope that I do and continue to make valid arguments based on facts and reasonably intelligent arguments.  I like this forum and enjoy and want to be a productive member.  I usually post in the "other sports car" forum and do not intrude on your turf, but just reading through this discussion, I had to, with good conscious make an intelligent case on behalf of a great sports car.  I only wish you guys could share the same respect.

I instruct at NJMP in New Jersey...any are welcome to come down and go for a ride on the track or receive instruction (Porsche or vette).  I appreciate the guys in Honda Civics and treat them with the same respect as the guys with $200k cup cars.