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    ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    Not sure, this maybe a repost.......but this is a great NBR video Smiley

    http://www.autoweek.com/section/zr1ring

     


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    A good lap, looks like fun, some turns are very very good in that video.


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

     WOW, that is the first time I have seen a lap at the ring where the speed and RPM's were displayed. I had no idea of the speeds these drivers were achieving through some of those turns. Excellent driving.

    I also assume there are those on this board who believe the time of 7.26.4 is bogus.


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    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    There are two "methods" to measure lap times on the Nordschleife, one is from a rolling start and the other one from standstill. This is why there are many misunderstandings regarding lap times on the Nordschleife.

    The ZR1 is a very fast car, indeed and I won't doubt its lap time but ANY lap time measured without an independent confirmation (at least a reputable car magazine), is worthless in my opinion.

    Especially since the tested car was a PROTOTYPE. Smiley Look at the date this video has been recorded. Good for the marketing department but pretty much worthless for any car nut. Well...there is the entertainment factor though... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    I posted this a long time ago here and if I can see something with my eyes its REAL.

    Also this guy is an engineer, an american, I doubt he has the lap numbers on the NBR that junkies like WR and VS have.

    Plus that track is more about knowing it than car performance imo.

     

    nice video


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    racerx:

    I posted this a long time ago here and if I can see something with my eyes its REAL.

     A video is always "real" - however not (necessarily) the conclusion one is led to draw from it... Same with photographs...

    Of course, I know what you mean. However, who knows whether the car in a video has the standard engine, which tires were used etc. That's the problem with videos put on the web by OEMs Smiley These concerns do apply to all brands, of course.

    BTW, SportAuto already did a Supertest of the ZR1.


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    racerx:

    Also this guy is an engineer, an american, I doubt he has the lap numbers on the NBR that junkies like WR and VS have.

     

    I think you underestimate car development engineers. I know one guy at Porsche who never did professional racing but he is only 1-2 seconds away from WR's usual laps on the Nordschleife in the same car. Sometimes WR needs additional laps to beat his times.

    These guys have fuel in their blood, some of them drive the same track DOZENDS of times per year, they could drive BLIND and wouldn't miss the curves. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

     FWIW, Jim Mero has driven the Ring over 1200 times.

    What was the SportAuto time?


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    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    The japanese driver we talked about the other day has done the ring over 6000 laps it said on one of those video's.

     

    1200 should certainly be enough to get acquainted.

     

     

    My point was that the NBR is a speed course and knowing the apex's and the straightest line is more important than the cars braking and acceleration from a hairpin abilities. It is also terribly bumpy and imo very dangerous with little to no runoff.

    For that reason I feel that driver comfort from previous laps is more important than raw talent or car performance.

    Do you get what I am saying?


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

     Tom, I agree with what you wrote. I wanted to point out that though Mero is a GM engineer, he has relatively considerable Ring experience. 


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    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    nberry:

     FWIW, Jim Mero has driven the Ring over 1200 times.

    What was the SportAuto time?

     

    7:38, same as Nissan GT-R.

    F430 Scuderia is one second slower.

    Porsche GT2: 7:33, only one second behind the Carrera GT. Impressive.

    Btw: the ZR1 beats the GT2 in Hockenheim (Kleiner Kurs) by a fraction of a second.

    Fastest car so far tested by SA on the Nordschleife was the Gumpert Apollo Sport (see photo). 7:24. The Hockenheim time is also out of this world: 1.07,2, almost three seconds faster than GT2/ZR1, very impressive for Hockenheim.

    gumpert.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    I believe most make the mistake of believing the SA time is best the car can do. NOTHING can be further from the truth. All it means is the time is the best SA drivers can do. 

    Would anyone bet the farm against a stock ZR1 doing less than 7.30 on the RING? I don't think so.

     


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    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    nberry:

    I believe most make the mistake of believing the SA time is best the car can do. NOTHING can be further from the truth. All it means is the time is the best SA drivers can do. 

    Would anyone bet the farm against a stock ZR1 doing less than 7.30 on the RING? I don't think so.

     

     

    It is about comparison of course, not what a car is capable with the right (trained) driver in it. Still: you need to know that the difference between good to very good drivers on the Nordschleife isn't much more than 2-3 seconds. Tops. 

    Btw: Horst v. Saurma mentioned that in the 7:30 t0 7:40 performance category, the air has become pretty "thin", it is very difficult for car manufacturers to develop a car which is MUCH faster without compromising "daily driver" capabilities. He said that in the future, achievements can only be reached through improved aerodynamics. I also would add that lowering weight could be another possibility too.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

     Christian, so what does that tell us about the performance of the car? 

    Can we say that the Carrera GT or GT2 is faster than the ZR1 around the Ring? To my knowledge, the best time achieved by the CGT was around 7.28 by WR and the best for the GT2 7.33. Since Mero did 7.26 in the ZR1, are the results of the SA magazine worthless?


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    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    Nick, the performance of the ZR1 is outstanding, no doubt about it, I'm not sure what this is all about ?  The only thing I said is that the car tested by Mero in the video is a PROTOTYPE which surely isn't the same thing customers get to drive/buy.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

     Christian my beef is not with you or what you wrote. I know  SA is held in high esteem in Europe and probably with good reason. My problem is like all magazine they have a bias despite they insisting otherwise. HvS drives Porsche's well and this is evidence by his times compared to WR the famous factory driver. Essentially they are very close.

    However, whenever HvS drives a different car his times are ALWAYS substantially slower than factory drivers and thus SA concludes either the car is slower or factory drivers were driving modified cars. That is NEVER the case when SA drives a Porsche. Don't you find that a bit curious?

    Of course Porschephiles will answer by claiming Porsche is honest in all its testing and if anything they are conservative in their numbers. Yea, and I have a pig with wings to sell you.


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    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    Sport Auto and Horst v. Saurma have a very good reputation and trust me on this one: Horst v. Saurma will ALWAYS try his best to be fast, he loves these cars and has fuel in his blood. He will soon race a Porsche 997 GT3 RS together with Walter Röhrl.

    Regarding Porsche and car manufacturers supplying cars for Sport Auto and other magazine test, this is a different story. Sometimes some of the testcars perform pretty well, maybe too well. Since it is very well known that Sport Auto tests the car on the Nordschleife, it is pretty easy for car manufacturers to adapt the chassis and even the engine software to achieve better results. I don't say they do it but they would be stupid if they wouldn't.

    I won't forget the AMS review of a SL55 AMG prototype. When I bragged about this "foul" review as a member on the official german AMG Club forum, I got kicked out of the AMG Club. No kidding. Honesty isn't always a clever thing I'm afraid.

    Getting back to the ZR1: even if the ZR1 would do the Norschleife in 7 seconds and cost only 70000 EUR, this car still wouldn't sell in Europe. Its old reputation as a pimp's car is just haunting it. I can't see a doctor or lawyer in a ZR1 over here.

    I like the ZR1 a lot and it has its customers in Germany.

    Check out this link:

    http://www.geigercars.de/

    US cars, even tuned ones, are available in Germany too. They are more "exotic" than a Ferrari or Lamborghini though.

    The ZR1 is 136000 EUR over here in Germany. For this kind of money, there are other options which may not be that fast but definetely less "obvious".


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....


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    http://i28.tinypic.com/166k5zo.png


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    What is actually weird: the ZR1 testcar seems to have been supplied by Geiger Cars Munich and not GM Europe. Same with the Cadillac CTS-V which has been supplied by a private dealer near Augsburg. I wonder why ? Why doesn't GM provide testcars for german car magazines ? Did I miss something ? Weird.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    Since call-girls are legal in Germany (a good thing imo), are Pimp's really a problem?

     

    And the german way of dismissing times not performed by 1 or 2 german favorites is I think a little bit of german car snobbery.

    Go over to geiger, get yourselves a ZR-1 for the autobahn, an F-150 Harley-davidson model for winter driving and live it up!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    btw need to change your wardrobe - 

     

     


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    racerx:

     

    btw need to change your wardrobe

    In Germany the right wardrobe would look more like this Smiley
     

    pimp.jpg

    I guess the pimps have become more conservative with their car choices these days Smiley


    --
     

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    RC:

    Why doesn't GM provide testcars for german car magazines? Did I miss something? Weird.

     

    The European distribution was done by Kroymans but both the Dutch HQ and the German agency declared bankruptcy last year (German). Corvette Europe´s website was down a couple of months ago and the current one looks like an interim solution.

    GM was not happy with sales numbers in recent years for both Corvette and Cadillac, would like to know the details about the situation.


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    Ferdie:
    RC:

    Why doesn't GM provide testcars for german car magazines? Did I miss something? Weird.

     

    The European distribution was done by Kroymans but both the Dutch HQ and the German agency declared bankruptcy last year (German). Corvette Europe´s website was down a couple of months ago and the current one looks like an interim solution.

    GM was not happy with sales numbers in recent years for both Corvette and Cadillac, would like to know the details about the situation.

     IIRC, GM gave up on importing these cars itself due to poor sales figures, leaving the business to "gray market" importers. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    fritz:

     IIRC, GM gave up on importing these cars itself due to poor sales figures, leaving the business to "gray market" importers. 

    Knowing that, I must be really happy, that succeeded to receive a very hard 18k euros repair under warranty through GM Europe, for my C6 Vette, only months before the recession... The car was imported by non-official dealer and GM were very kind and helpful by that time... Smiley


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    Thanks for the update, guys. I didn't know that GM stopped importing the Corvette and the CTS-V. Very sad.  Both, the ZR1 and the CTS-V are excellent cars and highly interesting. The ZR1 is just too expensive for Europe in my opinion but I heard that Geiger Cars Munich has good offers for interested customers and they also seem to have a good repair shop.

    Unfortunately driving a Corvette would "kill" my business, it would be even worse than putting an Enzo Ferrari next to my office. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: ZR1 NBR Video 7'26"....

    RC:

    Getting back to the ZR1: even if the ZR1 would do the Norschleife in 7 seconds and cost only 70000 EUR, this car still wouldn't sell in Europe. Its old reputation as a pimp's car is just haunting it. I can't see a doctor or lawyer in a ZR1 over here.

    I like the ZR1 a lot and it has its customers in Germany.

    Check out this link:

    http://www.geigercars.de/

    US cars, even tuned ones, are available in Germany too. They are more "exotic" than a Ferrari or Lamborghini though.

    The ZR1 is 136000 EUR over here in Germany. For this kind of money, there are other options which may not be that fast but definetely less "obvious".

     

    What's funny is this is so true.  Alright maybe not pimp but while doing some shopping at the Villeroy & Boch factory some months back a yellow Corvette pulls into the parking lot...turns out it has the clear hood, a ZR1!  When the driver and his frau parked the car i looked back to gaze at what kind of owners these people where driving American muscle in Germany.  To my amazement the owners were straight up 80's big hair rocker looking people.  The epitome of what a German owner of a top level American car would look like!  Smiley
     

     


    --
    harrY 2006 Boxster S, Atlas Grey, Black/Black, 6spd

     
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