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    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Plan to order one? I personally am conflicted as to whether I like it.

    As I was looking at the photos I asked myself if I bought this car where would I drive it? With a 458 you use it for open road performance and occasionally take it to dinner BUT with considerable caution and worry. Most of the time when I drove my Ferrari's they were for entertaining driving and a brief stop (StarbucksSmiley) or a place to eat where the car was within my vision.

    The 620 is designed to be a GT to be used for most occasions. Good Luck! I don't believe it would be safe to leave it unattended for any length of time. Too much attention and the stress factor would take all the enjoyment out of the car. This is true particular now given the state of affairs concerning the 1% and 99%.

    Let's be honest, Porsche's melt into the landscape. Never a security issue. Only time they are noticeable is when they are (ahem) getting a workout.


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    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Looks much better in other colors.

    http://www.worldcarfans.com/112022941791/ferrari-f12-berlinetta-configurator-and-videos/lowphotos#62


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Mike S:

    I said it once and I'll say it again. The approach to the rear diffuser looks like the Bhorat mankini 

     

    +1


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Whoopsy:
    Mike S:

    I said it once and I'll say it again. The approach to the rear diffuser looks like the Bhorat mankini 

     

    +1

    I rather like the rear, it makes me think of this:

    p4.jpg

    or this:

    275GTB rear view.JPG

    Both good things. I do see the Borat thing though...


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Size comparison with the 599.

    133058534120510.JPG


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    a stunner ! Love it ! kiss


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    ISUK:

    Size comparison with the 599.

    133058534120510.JPG

    Reducing size and weight is always a great achievement Smiley But let's face it: the F12 is still far too heavy for serious track driving. So my focus is on what Ferrari will offer to dynamic oriented buyers in the future?

    In particular, it would be interesting to know whether the 458 successor will have a turbo engine. At some stage Ferrari needs to produce a car focused on weight reduction and track dynamics. Ferrari does have a turbo tradition (F40, GTO etc.), thus it appears natural that get back to turbo engines at some stage. Personally, I would also expect a turbo powered 458 successor to feel more (!) powerful than the F12. No kidding. You can put 740hp into an na engine - still a turbo engine with some hp less feels more powerful, at the same time fuel consumption is also lower and the marketing becomes a lot easier these days Smiley


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    The detailing on this car is too Oriental (in terms of car design) for my taste. Very little of the Italian design finesse and elegance are present both inside and outside.

    This is a new trend for Ferrari that started with the 458 and continued with the FF which probably relates to  the new emerging markets for very expensive cars.

    Porsche are at the other extreme of offering too simple and plain designs to the extent of looking rather ordinary to many people. There must be a golden mean somewhere!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Stunning overall design IMO - with one exception: that smiley face adopted from the FF.  I was hoping we'd never see that on a Ferrari again.  Smiley


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    PureBlue:

    Stunning overall design IMO - with one exception: that smiley face adopted from the FF.  I was hoping we'd never see that on a Ferrari again.  Smiley

    Trust me when you are behind the wheel of an FF, the last thing you are concerned about is the smiley face.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    PureBlue:

    Stunning overall design IMO - with one exception: that smiley face adopted from the FF.  I was hoping we'd never see that on a Ferrari again.  Smiley

    Stunning could mean extremely impressive or extremely attractive or both. This car is very impressive for sure like any rare supercar but not extremely attractive. The Veyron or the Murcielago for example,  are also stunning in the sense of impressive but by no means attractive. The 599 GTB and the Gallardo  are stunning on both counts IMO.

    I expected Ferrari to continue to  impress but at the same time maintain their tradition of timeless Italian elegance, style sophistication and finesse. The new models will be sold predominantly Eastwards, hence the change in design direction, I think.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    I think that some people have just something against modernity, that's all. smiley IMHO the F12 makes the 599 look dated. 


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    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    The rear is amazing, timeless but the front is a little bit too "nervous" for me. Some may call this aggressive or stylish, I just think that the designer should have made the front slightly calmer with less curves.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    very contemporary styling , much in the way of say a mitsubishi eclipse or one of the several kia or hyundai models . perhaps like the corvette they quit making ferrari's in 1967, with a very few exceptions f40,f50,enzo . oh well must be getting old as don't even want one these days, ff give me a break.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    My thoughts:

    - Same wheelbase as the 599, which wasn't that bad to begin with - but the shortened body, losing length from the rear combined with its longer that the 599s front end gives it a bit of an unbalanced oblong profile.

    - Deep dramatic door scalloping was not needed. It's gimmicky. I see the new Hyundais doing this on all their cars. There could have been a more subtle execution.

    - The egg crate grill for some reason doesn't fit the character of the car. Especially with its very future forward, progressive rear end treatment. Ferrari could have done without this, although I'm sure Ferrari loyalist and historic will call my comment blasphemous.

    - Extra wide grill and widely spaced headlights give the front end the appearance of the Cheshire Cat.

    But this is all my opinion.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    The door scalloping serves an aerodynamic function. Air is taken in from the frontal hood vents and is channelled through the wheel arches and the doors at the rear of the car. 


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    JesseBank:
    Whoopsy:
    Mike S:

    I said it once and I'll say it again. The approach to the rear diffuser looks like the Bhorat mankini 

     

    +1

    I rather like the rear, it makes me think of this:

    p4.jpg

    or this:

    275GTB rear view.JPG

    Both good things. I do see the Borat thing though...

     

    These 2 rears have the single tail lamp, but they don't have a thong running up the butt crack, the new Ferrari does.

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    This car is amazing! Fantastic performances, huge improvement over the already competent 599. 

    I have two criticisms: new ferraris since the 458 have something desperately Japanese in their styling and the F12 is no exception. This is consistent with Asian emerging markets, but the classic and classy lines are gone. 

    Second main problem : depreciation. 

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Futch:

     

    I have two criticisms: new ferraris since the 458 have something desperately Japanese in their styling and the F12 is no exception. This is consistent with Asian emerging markets, but the classic and classy lines are gone. 

    I feel so much better now that a connoisseur par excellence like Futch, shares the same view about recent Ferrari styling, with me. See my previous posts above Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    +1

    Some might argue that the 360 Modena and the F430 started that styling change which was undeniably there by the time the 458 Italia was launched.

    IMO it isn't necessarily 'Japanese' but more of a 'technological' look rather than a look made up of graceful curves, flair and flamboyance like the Ferraris of the 1950s, 60s and 70s..

    Just my view but I really think Ferrari styling changed once it became a resurgent force in F1 during the time of Schumi at Ferrari. As F1 technology developed so dramatically, so too did the technology underpinning the road cars.

    And the styling of the road cars became a reflection of the technology underneath and the increasing part that aerodynamics came to play in car design.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    I don't think it's a matter of technology or aerodynamics,  as attractive cars can exist with comparable technology and as good aerodynamics.

    Ferrari want to reach just below 10.000 units p.a. from the 6.000-7.000 at present. Traditional European and USA markets are saturated and stable.  Therefore, only Middle East and Asia can make the difference. The aesthetic tastes differ there and people are fond of the extravagant with less restraint and with more show-off factor.

    Ferrari must have researched the market very well. The new style will not turn traditional buyers away, as Ferrari are in a unique position of dominance in the supercar  market but at the same time the merging markets (who have little prior knowledge of Ferrari heritage and style)  will be dazzled by the new louder designs.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    easy_rider911:

    +1

    Some might argue that the 360 Modena and the F430 started that styling change which was undeniably there by the time the 458 Italia was launched.

    IMO it isn't necessarily 'Japanese' but more of a 'technological' look rather than a look made up of graceful curves, flair and flamboyance like the Ferraris of the 1950s, 60s and 70s..

    Just my view but I really think Ferrari styling changed once it became a resurgent force in F1 during the time of Schumi at Ferrari. As F1 technology developed so dramatically, so too did the technology underpinning the road cars.

    And the styling of the road cars became a reflection of the technology underneath and the increasing part that aerodynamics came to play in car design.

     

    Well said. That's what I meant when I said that people resist change and modernity. Smiley


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    REALZEUS:
    easy_rider911:

    +1

    Some might argue that the 360 Modena and the F430 started that styling change which was undeniably there by the time the 458 Italia was launched.

    IMO it isn't necessarily 'Japanese' but more of a 'technological' look rather than a look made up of graceful curves, flair and flamboyance like the Ferraris of the 1950s, 60s and 70s..

    Just my view but I really think Ferrari styling changed once it became a resurgent force in F1 during the time of Schumi at Ferrari. As F1 technology developed so dramatically, so too did the technology underpinning the road cars.

    And the styling of the road cars became a reflection of the technology underneath and the increasing part that aerodynamics came to play in car design.

     

    Well said. That's what I meant when I said that people resist change and modernity. Smiley

    The carrera GT has  over 200 kgs of downforce and fabulous performances and yet has a very clean and simple design that IMHO ages better than the Enzo.

    I don't resist change at all, but for road cars, I prefer the simpler Porsche design language. 

    I agree with easy.  Where Porsche hits it off for me it that their design is evolutionary yet ground breaking with each new models.  Ferrari is more bald, to each his own, but I definitely wouldn't say I resist change and modernity. 

    I am eagerly looking forward for my 918 for example, it'll be a pig but I am somehow convinced I will love it nonetheless. 

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Or, as opposed to Asian tastes oriented or technological styling as some here have mentioned, perhaps they are sipping from Bangle's cup.

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Futch:

    Second main problem : depreciation. 


    Sad but true. Smiley

    Out of curiousity I just happened to check some used 458 prices recently: they already start at 140k. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Looks are subjective. But, I find it interesting how we seem to cut Porsche slack - by getting excited when they change the tail lights slightly or perhaps add LED's etc. By the way, I do like them anyway. We've just been conditioned to expect certain things from various manufacturers and hence, we treat them differently.

    I find the F12 contemporary, as the Enzo was when it was released. Not for everyone's tastes or preferences. Maybe they are trying to be more like Lambo, which seem to be far more aggressive in their stying - which I also like.

    As for Nick's comment, I rather agree - in North America, all of these cars just can't be used properly without the risk of losing your license. 

    Not saying I wouldn't buy one, just that it couldn't be fully appreciated here. 

     


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Rossi:
    Futch:

    Second main problem : depreciation. 


    Sad but true. Smiley

    Out of curiousity I just happened to check some used 458 prices recently: they already start at 140k. Smiley

     

    Amazing. Why are the F's depreciating so quickly?


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Heist:

    Or, as opposed to Asian tastes oriented or technological styling as some here have mentioned, perhaps they are sipping from Bangle's cup.

     

    WOW, that is amazing. Certainly when I first saw the FF it reminded me of another car but could not place it other than to think it was a European hatchback. These pictures bring it into focus.Smiley

    FWIW, many Ferrari owners including myself (in the past) would be on the list to buy the newest model even before we saw or know anything about it. I just had to have the new model. I believe that attitude exist today amount Ferrari owners. Ferrari always has its pipeline.

    Depreciation I believe is related to a price point which Ferrari crossed with the 430, introducing the California and relatively poor front engine models. The 612 and 599 were not well received.


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    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Certainly there has been a change in design direction of late. However, the classic and classy lines were a long time a go. For instance the 308 from the mid seventies was very angular in appearance rather than curvy.


    Re: Ferrari F12 Berlinetta(aka 620)

    Here are some real life photos from Teamspeed.com:

    417538_10151352576305035_233730055034_23458658_703259541_n.jpg6943633917_1280bd371d_b.jpg

    6943677755_210146eff4_b.jpg


     
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