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    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    The weight gain in the Q7 is appreciated ( use of aluminum ) and the RWS makes it much more nimble . If you think of it ( RWS ) , a must on all SUV .

    The GL ' s main advantage is it's real 7 seats . And for some, the MB badge .  Maybe If I would try a GL 500 or the 63 AMG I would feel differently , but that 350 was extremely boring , just like my Citroen C8 angry ,  Driving the GL350 against the Q7 TDI 3.0  ( same engine / level ) had no comparison . The Q7 was alive , the other one was like a dead horse .

    There is SQ7 coming out in september . That one could be compared to the GL500


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    SciFrog:

    The new Q7 looks more masculine than the old one, but also a lot more boring...

    I see more and more Q7 on the road over here in Germany and I have to say that for Germany, the Q7 is perfect. Very stealth appearance (yes, even boring but people over here tend to hate larger SUVs, so it is better this way) and if Audi manages to put a nice V8 or whatever in it, I would be tempted if prices are right. I would never pay for a Q7 what I pay for a Cayenne, even if both had the same performance/power.

    That rumored S Q7 could be interesting but I'm afraid it won't be cheap. No way I would pay over 100k for an Audi SUV.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Gnil:
    RC:

    If you want to buy the car and not lease it, maybe you should consider the (previous model) GL 63 AMG? There are some nice offers under 100k for only slightly used cars.

    I checked them out . Here they are still in the 120k region . Not sure I want to put that much in a car that will sit most of the time in the parking + I actually do not see myself in a MB . I can't really say why, but each time I want to get one , I feel old as soon as I sit in one .  I am more and more convinced with the Q7 . It s technology is way ahead of all the others and I like that in a new car .

    This is why I mentioned the G63 AMG. This car is "old" but I've seen even 20 year old soccer stars in it. Smiley Smiley Timeless. I get however why you don't like it, my wife isn't a fan either. I always loved SUVs (many people have issues with them) and the G class is a classic in my opinion, especially in G63 AMG flavor (SUV, not really an off-roader).

    The X5M would be for the younger crowd but there are tons of X5 in Bavaria, basically the Volks-SUV of the upper middle class here. Smiley 

    The need of a 7-seater kind of narrows down the choices. How about the new Cadillac Escalade? Amazing car for a big family with lots of luggage. Two issues though: This thing, especially in ESV flavor, isn't exactly subtle. People do not like this kind of big sized SUVs, I am lucky with my Jeep because most people think a Jeep is a serious off-roader (which the GC SRT of course isn't Smiley). Also, the Escalade isn't exactly a bargain in Europe but you get the car with an official 3-year warranty (maybe even more in Switzerland). I'm not a fan of the touch buttons in the middle console but other than this, a very nice family SUV with lots of comfort and room for the family.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    RC:
    Gnil:
    RC:

    If you want to buy the car and not lease it, maybe you should consider the (previous model) GL 63 AMG? There are some nice offers under 100k for only slightly used cars.

    I checked them out . Here they are still in the 120k region . Not sure I want to put that much in a car that will sit most of the time in the parking + I actually do not see myself in a MB . I can't really say why, but each time I want to get one , I feel old as soon as I sit in one .  I am more and more convinced with the Q7 . It s technology is way ahead of all the others and I like that in a new car .

    This is why I mentioned the G63 AMG. This car is "old" but I've seen even 20 year old soccer stars in it. Smiley Smiley Timeless. I get however why you don't like it, my wife isn't a fan either. I always loved SUVs (many people have issues with them) and the G class is a classic in my opinion, especially in G63 AMG flavor (SUV, not really an off-roader).

    The X5M would be for the younger crowd but there are tons of X5 in Bavaria, basically the Volks-SUV of the upper middle class here. Smiley 

    The need of a 7-seater kind of narrows down the choices. How about the new Cadillac Escalade? Amazing car for a big family with lots of luggage. Two issues though: This thing, especially in ESV flavor, isn't exactly subtle. People do not like this kind of big sized SUVs, I am lucky with my Jeep because most people think a Jeep is a serious off-roader (which the GC SRT of course isn't Smiley). Also, the Escalade isn't exactly a bargain in Europe but you get the car with an official 3-year warranty (maybe even more in Switzerland). I'm not a fan of the touch buttons in the middle console but other than this, a very nice family SUV with lots of comfort and room for the family.

    The owner of the harley davidson garage in the next town just bought a new Escalade . It looks cool, but out of place here . And I would not be able to park it in most garages .  More important , it's my wife who will drive the car the most often . This week end me made a vote in the family . My wife and my oldest son ( he is very reasonable and even said he would keep the old car , why change ?  )  voted for the Q7 . My middle son ( who loves cars ) and my youngest voted for the Jeep SRT .   

    The Q7 is the most adequate for us . Mainly because it has the inside space we need .  3 proper seats at the back, that move independently . The SRT middle seat is more a bench . Not great .  My main worry with the Q7 is the available engines . Here there is only the 3.0 petrol with 333 HP , 440 Nm and the 3.0 diesel with 272 HP , 600 Nm.  I wanted to test drive the petrol. Impossible ! On the marked there are 123 Q7 to sell ........... 100% are diesel Smiley


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    No one should buy an Escalade before driving it. It is several generations behind german cars in drive feel...


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Several dozen generations behind if you ask me. 

    That said, I spent a lot of time in one doing site tours around Dallas this summer and I can't think of anything short of a mini-bus that would have taken six grown men around in the same comfort. 

    But, as I don't make a habit of driving five other grown men around with me, I don't have much need for something that monsterously large. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Mithras:

    Several dozen generations behind if you ask me. 

    That said, I spent a lot of time in one doing site tours around Dallas this summer and I can't think of anything short of a mini-bus that would have taken six grown men around in the same comfort. 

    But, as I don't make a habit of driving five other grown men around with me, I don't have much need for something that monsterously large. 

    Actually I totally agree but didn't want to offend anyone. But since you said it Smiley


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    SciFrog:

    No one should buy an Escalade before driving it. It is several generations behind german cars in drive feel...

    Not really in my opinion. It felt sportier than the GL450 we had previously.

    I always wonder why Americans feel so bad about their own cars? Smiley

    After the Cayenne GTS/Turbo and the BMW X5M, the Jeep GC SRT actually has the sportiest drive feel/behavior of any SUV I ever drove and I drove many (with the exception of the new Mercedes SUVs and the Q7).

    The new Escalade feels sportier than the 2014 GL450 we had as a rental before the Escalade and the European models are even modified to European road standards. I have driven a 2015 Escalade at Geiger Cars Munich and it felt very good and "sporty" (good steering feel, etc.), very close to the SRT.

    Don't forget that the Jeep weights 300 kg more than the Cayenne Turbo and so does the Escalade.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Just a quick look for weight you have:

    2017 Q7 3.0 diesel - 4343lbs

    2016 Cayenne GTS - 4652lbs

    2016 Range Rover Supercharged - 5137lbs

    2017 MB GLS 63 - 5371lbs

    2017 Escalade - 5840lbs

    That's a BIG difference. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Get the 272 hp Diesel, performance up to 140 kph is basically the same as the petrol car and this is probably the speed range you will be driving most of the time. The higher torque will feel better in the city and Diesel consumption should also be lower compared to the petrol car.

    I agree, the SRT middle rear seat is more of an emergency seat than a comfortable full sized seat and when transporting skis, usually my wife seats in the middle seat (she is very thin Smiley) because my daughter loves to sit in the rear and my son wants to sit in the front with me.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Mithras:

    Just a quick look for weight you have:

    2017 Q7 3.0 diesel - 4343lbs

    2016 Cayenne GTS - 4652lbs

    2016 Range Rover Supercharged - 5137lbs

    2017 MB GLS 63 - 5371lbs

    2017 Escalade - 5840lbs

    That's a BIG difference. 

    I know, the new Q7 is really quite light for it's size but don't forget that the SQ7 will be much heavier, more in GLS 63 territory (wild guess though).

    Btw: The SRT is 5150 lbs. but it feels lighter.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    2016 Cayenne turbo 4817 lbs.

    2016 Macan turbo 4409 lbs

     


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    SciFrog:

    2016 Cayenne turbo 4817 lbs.

    2016 Macan turbo 4409 lbs

     

    You can't compare either one with the SRT for example. How do you fit five large spinner suitcases, four pair of skis plus gear (helmets, shoes, poles), three cabin trolleys and some bags in a Macan or even a Cayenne? Smiley Even the SRT is at it's limit for a family with two kids and Gnil has three kids (luckily no girl, so less luggage Smiley but still).

    Last spring when we traveled to North Italy in my wife's Macan Turbo, we had to ask a friend to take two suitcases with him in his car. Luckily, he went to the same hotel we did, so not a problem. This year, we are going to drive in the SRT.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    RC:

    Get the 272 hp Diesel, performance up to 140 kph is basically the same as the petrol car and this is probably the speed range you will be driving most of the time. The higher torque will feel better in the city and Diesel consumption should also be lower compared to the petrol car.

     

    I just found out that there is an ABT chip that will bring the car up to 680 NM and around 330 HP ( for the diesel ) preserving the warrantee 

    But my worries is now number performance ( it is basically the same to 100km/h ) It's  the feel . Most diesels I have driven were so boring as way too linear . But this diesel was a bit more lively , I admit . And with the chip it could be better 
    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Gnil:
    RC:

    Get the 272 hp Diesel, performance up to 140 kph is basically the same as the petrol car and this is probably the speed range you will be driving most of the time. The higher torque will feel better in the city and Diesel consumption should also be lower compared to the petrol car.

     

    I just found out that there is an ABT chip that will bring the car up to 680 NM and around 330 HP ( for the diesel ) preserving the warrantee 

    Sounds great, so get the Diesel. Smiley

    With three kids, you don't have many choices. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Audi USA says Q7 3.0 petrol is 4,938 lbs curb weight FYI... 5.6s 0-60 for 33hp, 19/25mpg. Not bad but not quite as "advanced" as you think...


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    SciFrog:

    Audi USA says Q7 3.0 petrol is 4,938 lbs curb weight FYI... 5.6s 0-60 for 33hp, 19/25mpg. Not bad but not quite as "advanced" as you think...

    I never said it is advanced and yes, I am a little bit disappointed that SUV manufacturers cannot seem to be able to lower weight further.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Gail said "advanced". Went to spec one just for kicks. The exterior color choices are horrible, I could not buy one right now even if I really liked the car... Also what is wrong with the vent design on the passenger side? Looks terrible in pics...


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    I don't know...I cannot say I'm in love with the Q7 but Audi seems to be marketing this car pretty aggressively and I have to admit that it looks very inoffensive and almost boring, which is a good thing for Europe (people over here are not SUV lovers, the bigger, the worst).

    Audi-Q7-Interior-2015.jpg
    05-audi-q7-2015-3916868380831921531.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    SciFrog:

    Audi USA says Q7 3.0 petrol is 4,938 lbs curb weight FYI... 5.6s 0-60 for 33hp, 19/25mpg. Not bad but not quite as "advanced" as you think...

    Strange weight . 

    I have the brochure and it says for the 3.0 petrol with the 7 seats ( so the heavier version ) : 2105kg  = 4640 lbs

    The lightest big SUV  ,   BY FAR !

    It has Rear Wheel Steering, a full digital dashboard , infotainment that is top notch 

    And I agree about the look . Nothing to rave about . But that can also be said about the GL .


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    For a daily driver it seems nice. But nothing to get excited about really...

    Anyone knows if there are big differences between the GL63 AMG and GLS63 AMG except for the higher hp and better interior? Same gearbox it seems, same chassis too?


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    SciFrog:

    For a daily driver it seems nice. But nothing to get excited about really...

    Anyone knows if there are big differences between the GL63 AMG and GLS63 AMG except for the higher hp and better interior? Same gearbox it seems, same chassis too?

    I never said it is exciting Smiley Just the best choice for our usage . 

    The GLS has the exact same chassis as the GL . It has actually the same chassis as the GLE . It has only a bit aded on to make it longer . Is exactly the same width 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Gnil:
    SciFrog:

    Audi USA says Q7 3.0 petrol is 4,938 lbs curb weight FYI... 5.6s 0-60 for 33hp, 19/25mpg. Not bad but not quite as "advanced" as you think...

    Strange weight . 

    I have the brochure and it says for the 3.0 petrol with the 7 seats ( so the heavier version ) : 2105kg  = 4640 lbs

    The lightest big SUV  ,   BY FAR !

    It has Rear Wheel Steering, a full digital dashboard , infotainment that is top notch 

    And I agree about the look . Nothing to rave about . But that can also be said about the GL .


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     

    Have you decided on the color? I think that the Q7 is very color sensitive, also very rim design sensitive (judging by photos, not real life experience). I saw a white one, which actually looked quite good live but not so good in photos. Also saw a silver one, classic "boring" color but if you don't want to attract attention, perfect.

    Regarding an exciting SUV choice: I think this could be actually a problem in Europe. The Jeep GC SRT is attracting a lot of attention (look, sound) but luckily, ordinary people over here think this is a serious off-roader, so they are much more inclined to "accept" it. If I would drive a Mercedes GL or Cayenne, things would look differently. Even the Range Rover may get more love than your usual soccer mom SUV. Worst choice for a SUV: The X6. People don't consider it to be a SUV, so you get a lot of hate here. Smiley

    So I think that a family SUV doesn't really have to be too exciting, especially here in Europe. The Macan is "borderline", size and especially design.

    Unfortunately the choices for larger family SUVs are very limited and some people actually prefer something like the VW T6 (see photo) but these puppies have usually only around 200 hp and they cost a fortune (80-90k EUR, if you add all necessary options).

    die-neue-version-des-multivan.jpg


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    How retarded is Audi. You can see this nice light blue Q7 but it is not one of the available colors... No red either... Pass. Back to a red GLS... 550 or AMG? smiley


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    RC:
    Gnil:
    SciFrog:

    Audi USA says Q7 3.0 petrol is 4,938 lbs curb weight FYI... 5.6s 0-60 for 33hp, 19/25mpg. Not bad but not quite as "advanced" as you think...

    Strange weight . 

    I have the brochure and it says for the 3.0 petrol with the 7 seats ( so the heavier version ) : 2105kg  = 4640 lbs

    The lightest big SUV  ,   BY FAR !

    It has Rear Wheel Steering, a full digital dashboard , infotainment that is top notch 

    And I agree about the look . Nothing to rave about . But that can also be said about the GL .


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     

    Have you decided on the color? I think that the Q7 is very color sensitive, also very rim design sensitive (judging by photos, not real life experience). I saw a white one, which actually looked quite good live but not so good in photos. Also saw a silver one, classic "boring" color but if you don't want to attract attention, perfect.

    Black or White . I can't stand any classic grey anymore . 

     

    @SciFrog : Audi also has an exclusive programme called Quattro Gmbh  . They will paint your car to most colors .  

    But you need to get the GL , get the AMG ., (I declined today an GL63 AMG with 45k  km  for less then half the starting price  )  , you have been talking about it for long enough and you had your Q7 


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Let me guess: The Audi Q7 offered is basically the same price new as the used GL63 AMG you got offered?

    45k km is a bit too much for an AMG, I would choose a used one with under 20k km only.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    Audi Q7 petrol in action. Maybe it helps you. 

    http://youtu.be/M5I_tAnTwSo

    http://youtu.be/vpKvxdUwIO8


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    RS 991:

    Audi Q7 petrol in action. Maybe it helps you. 

    http://youtu.be/M5I_tAnTwSo

    http://youtu.be/vpKvxdUwIO8

    Sound is nothing to write home about (not that we expected something else) but have you seen the fuel consumption? Ouch. I would prefer the Diesel, I'd say that the Diesel doesn't consume more than 15 l / 100 km (real life situation) compared to the 19-20 l / 100 km for the petrol car.

    I like the digital speedo a lot but my wife would probably hate it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    They claim, they achieved 10.5l over 800km, high speed driving included.


    Re: Jeep Confirms Hellcat-Powered Grand Cherokee

    RS 991:

    They claim, they achieved 10.5l over 800km, high speed driving included.

    I doubt it. My Mini JCW (latest model) consumes 10.1 l / 100 km now (after 3000 km) and I drive it mainly in the city.

    The real life consumption values achieved by car journalists never seem to be right. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


     
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