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    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    Grant:
    RC:

    A guy I know met with a Ferrari engineer lately and apparently he was told that the 812 Superfast is going to be the last V12 model with a n/a engine. 

    You mean the last NA V12 without hybrid or without turbo?

    The first Ferrari V12's had less than 2.0L - wonder if we are headed full circle?


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    Well, with a turbo, it wouldn't be a n/a engine anymore. Smiley

    Truth is: I don't trust these claims. Car manufacturers can always push another n/a model "in between" in a model line if they want to, so... Smiley I am also cautious about the Porsche GT models. The latest GT3 could be the last one with a n/a engine but just imagine Porsche finds a way to reduce emissions with a n/a engine after a year or two, then what? Technology moves on, so the "last" one may actually not really be the last. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    problem is you cannot guess "this is the last one" until the next one is released (or at least known about), so they saying should be "I guess this was the last one" indecision


    --

    1986 BMW 325i Cabrio Alpine Weiss/Black Leather - German Spec 
    2006 Mercedes-Benz CLS 500 Black/Black Leather 

    Ex: ''91 BMW 535i, '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

     


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    It's the last NA V12... until it isn't. 997 GT3 RS 4.0 was the last manual... until it wasn't.


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    Atzporsche:

    problem is you cannot guess "this is the last one" until the next one is released (or at least known about), so they saying should be "I guess this was the last one" indecision

    This is actually one major problem indeed. Smiley

    The rumor I heard about the Huracan and it's V10 came from an Audi Sport engineer I met a short while ago. This is how I found out that the R8 Spyder V10 Plus is coming this summer (and my dealer confirmed it a day later).

    Lamborghini needs the V12 as some sort of sales argument because it is pretty unique in this segment and in such a car. The V10 is even more unique but it is limited in power. The V12 is good for at least 800 hp even in it's current state, the V10 only for 650 hp right now. Huge difference. Also, they need to lower CO2 output and increase power on the Huracan. The next generation Huracan will see something close to 700 hp as far as I heard. Makes sense since McLaren and Ferrari already upped the game in this segment.

    So which car is going to be the last n/a? Good question.

    I am pretty sure that the next Huracan and R8 generation (not facelift) will have no V10 engine anymore. This is 100% as far as I heard from various sources (all say the same). One reason for that may also be the Porsche "960" which is rumored to use the same next platform for all three cars (Huracan, R8, 960). 

    Unfortunately the latest rumors indicate that the facelift won't get a V10 anymore as well, which would be sad. If true, the Huracan Performante is certainly becoming a collectible at some point.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    RC:
    Atzporsche:

    problem is you cannot guess "this is the last one" until the next one is released (or at least known about), so they saying should be "I guess this was the last one" indecision

    This is actually one major problem indeed. Smiley 

    So which car is going to be the last n/a? Good question.

    Even then, as noone wrote, it is only the last one... until it isn't. Hence I don't see the point with this "last one" guess. 

    If you want something special, get the first one. This status can never change Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    bluelines:
    RC:
    Atzporsche:

    problem is you cannot guess "this is the last one" until the next one is released (or at least known about), so they saying should be "I guess this was the last one" indecision

    This is actually one major problem indeed. Smiley 

    So which car is going to be the last n/a? Good question.

    Even then, as noone wrote, it is only the last one... until it isn't. Hence I don't see the point with this "last one" guess. 

    If you want something special, get the first one. This status can never change Smiley

    The thing is: The first one may not be the most valuable (collectible) one. Smiley

    I don't care about resale value or collectibles but if I decide to buy a car, it should be something special. Others are probably only looking to make a profit at some point, which is also understandable.

    Not easy to predict the value of a car (regular) model in 10 or 20 years, so... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    Funny thing about these "last" manuals and NA is that it's irrelevant. It's not like the million manuals and NA cars disappeared. Want NA manual? Go buy a 997 GT3. Go buy a Viper. Go buy the first gen r8 or 2007 lp640. The are half a century's supply of these cars available!

    I have no problem finding NA manual cars... Does it have to be the last manual NA with the latest infotainment or something?


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    It doesn't, as long as it is a Singer


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    noone1:

    Funny thing about these "last" manuals and NA is that it's irrelevant. It's not like the million manuals and NA cars disappeared. Want NA manual? Go buy a 997 GT3. Go buy a Viper. Go buy the first gen r8 or 2007 lp640. The are half a century's supply of these cars available.

    +1


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    RC:
    bluelines:
    RC:
    Atzporsche:

    problem is you cannot guess "this is the last one" until the next one is released (or at least known about), so they saying should be "I guess this was the last one" indecision

    This is actually one major problem indeed. Smiley 

    So which car is going to be the last n/a? Good question.

    Even then, as noone wrote, it is only the last one... until it isn't. Hence I don't see the point with this "last one" guess. 

    If you want something special, get the first one. This status can never change Smiley

    The thing is: The first one may not be the most valuable (collectible) one. Smiley

    I don't care about resale value or collectibles but if I decide to buy a car, it should be something special. Others are probably only looking to make a profit at some point, which is also understandable.

    Not easy to predict the value of a car (regular) model in 10 or 20 years, so... Smiley

    Buy a CGT right now! Smiley


    --

    1986 BMW 325i Cabrio Alpine Weiss/Black Leather - German Spec 
    2006 Mercedes-Benz CLS 500 Black/Black Leather 

    Ex: ''91 BMW 535i, '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

     


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    CGT prices have been coming down for a while now..........


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    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    Whoopsy:

    CGT prices have been coming down for a while now..........

    Oh boy... been shopping again Nick? ;-) SmileySmiley


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    Joost:
    Whoopsy:

    CGT prices have been coming down for a while now..........

    Oh boy... been shopping again Nick? ;-) SmileySmiley

    As far as I understood, Nick would buy a 959 before the CGT, no? But the prices of the 959 are definitely not coming down lately.


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    Whoopsy:

    CGT prices have been coming down for a while now..........

    Not in the UK .


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    noone1:

    Funny thing about these "last" manuals and NA is that it's irrelevant. It's not like the million manuals and NA cars disappeared. Want NA manual? Go buy a 997 GT3. Go buy a Viper. Go buy the first gen r8 or 2007 lp640. The are half a century's supply of these cars available!

    I have no problem finding NA manual cars... Does it have to be the last manual NA with the latest infotainment or something?

    I agree...unless you are looking for a collectible.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    Joost:
    Whoopsy:

    CGT prices have been coming down for a while now..........

    Oh boy... been shopping again Nick? ;-) SmileySmiley

     

    Not quite Smiley

    But I do indeed pay attention. they basically exploded in price after Paul Walker died in one, and had peaked at just around US$900k a while ago, and last November one of my buddy got one at 6something, and I believed another one just changed hands for under 6.

    But if the price stays at just under 6, I think that's fair market value for what the car is worth at this time period, or maybe even slightly under and it would be a fair purchase, climbing it up the list of priorities.

     


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    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    crayphile:
    Whoopsy:

    CGT prices have been coming down for a while now..........

    Not in the UK .

     

    There is actually a disconnect between European pricing and American pricing, not just for CGT but for all cars.

    When I was at Stuttgart for Retro Classic, there was like 5 512TR for sale, all of them are well under what market price is for North America, had I had more time, I probably would have do a deal and bring one over.

     


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    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    My German dealer told me that the 812 is a hit. He's now taking orders for late 2018 and for unknown callers it is 2019...eventually. 


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    Herbaliser:

    My German dealer told me that the 812 is a hit. He's now taking orders for late 2018 and for unknown callers it is 2019...eventually. 

    Extraordinary how the front engined V12 market  has taken off. They were hard to shift and had pretty steep depreciation in the not too distant past.


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    crayphile:
    Herbaliser:

    My German dealer told me that the 812 is a hit. He's now taking orders for late 2018 and for unknown callers it is 2019...eventually. 

    Extraordinary how the front engined V12 market  has taken off. They were hard to shift and had pretty steep depreciation in the not too distant past.

    The way they've developed the NA V12 from only 442hp in the F456 to almost double that in the 812 is pretty amazing Smiley


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    Too many flippers enlightened


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    BiTurbo:

    Too many flippers enlightened

    Indeed, but the worst of this breed are now Porsche buyers Smiley


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    Might not have to wait until 2019 for a car. It all depends on the second hand market. Of course the order book is full until 2019 -- there is no other way to get one aside from buying new.

    Once used cars show up -- and plenty will in Europe -- the order times will shrink as more people find reasons to buy used. I would never wait 2-3 years for a car unless it was something ridiculously special. If you just want a normal color and normal spec, you'll save time and money just buying a used one.


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    The 599 was also in demand when it came out...


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    2020 - I asked last Friday......


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    I reckon it's the "superfast" that is causing the demand


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    sfo:

    I reckon it's the "superfast" that is causing the demand

    I am not surprised: Heard the rumor over and over again that the 812 Superfast is going to have the last n/a V12. If true, this car is already a classic.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    BjoernB:

    2020 - I asked last Friday......

     

    Ask again in 3 months.

    Ferrari can't keep high demand on their 2vseaters V12 for over the first year.


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    Even the Lusso was sold out the first year. Like Koko said, demand drops fast after that.


    Re: Ferrari 812 Superfast

    koko:
    BjoernB:

    2020 - I asked last Friday......

     

    Ask again in 3 months.

    Ferrari can't keep high demand on their 2vseaters V12 for over the first year.

    Some of this is market dependent but the general direction is tight supply for 2 years. V12 production on TDF and Lusso is currently well behind schedule. There are clearly more genuine orders for the 812 than there were for the F12 when it came out. Speculator driven - quite possibly, but finally people have woken up to what a great product it is too.


     
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